DD #305 - Video Card Survey

[Majpalmer]

2 hours ago, Todt_Von_Oben said:

I pre-ordered FC1 and FC2 when they first became available and have flown them through all variations using CH joystick and pedals.  I had to upgrade my 2004 Cybertron to a 1050ti when we went to FCVR.  Graphically not bad but it smeared, lagged, and froze a lot; especially in MP.

 

My old computer died last July. Now I'm flying a R7-5700X with a 3080ti. 

 

WOW!  The graphics and image integrity are flawless!  No lag, no smear, no nada!  So happy with FCVR now!  Looking forward to buying a better headset in the near future but the GPU is tits!  

 

Do you really need to change the sim when people can get great performance simply by improving their own rig?  

 

If you're gonna synch the sim with a hotter range of GPU, I'd suggest the 3080 as a middling benchmark because it's really popular and works great.

 

Prosit!  ?

 

  

Splurged on a 3080ti myself. Along with an Intel I9. With everything on, I get about 115 fps at 8x. 120 at normal speed. 

[Ribbon]

I'm all for new eyecandy even at performance cost, which is expected when things move on.

Game needs to evolve to stay on the market!

Since VR crowd is sensitive on this matter (me included) maybe greater range in graphic options would be solution until we all upgrade to more capable next gen GPU's (rtx40x0, amd 7x00).....of course depending on performance impact vs eye candy benefits.

[Marcio]

Jason, thanks for consulting your customers!

My GPU is an AMD Radeon RX 570 with 4GB VRAM and, on my Desktop, the simulator works very well in "HIGH" graphics module, according to the attached files!
The simulator graphics are very beautiful: aircraft, tanks, ships, landscapes... especially after the new cloud rendering based on hypertextures! However, beautiful graphics are not the biggest attraction, but physics (lift according to the aircraft's wing profile and aircraft's mass, torque variation according to the region of the wing punctured by a projectile, tighter curves dosing greater power to the wing engine outside the center of the curve...). Physics stimulated my 13 year old son a lot in the sciences (especially physics) and he, from a mediocre student, started to study stand out, achieving the 2nd place in the National Science Olympiad.
Based on what I said, could you please answer me:

1. What will be the benefits of the new engine?

2. What will be the impacts of the new engine on those who have older and limited GPUs?

As you yourself recognized, we are experiencing a scarcity process with no end in sight. This process is a fundamental part of the true objectives of the 2030 Agenda: to reduce the purchasing power of the population, reduce the free market and competition by introducing the monopoly and supremacy of a few economic groups!

 

Sorry, I don't know why, the files don't upload!!!

[Stryker07]

I find it quite interesting that while there is an array of GFX cards in use, a decent percent are the top end card from their generation. Solid 10% for the 1080, 2080, and 3080 (the later not being the tippy top but quite close)  I only recently upgraded from my 1050 to a used 1080 primarily for IL2, and I paid over $400 for a used card in the current climate. 8GB does seem to be the sweet spot for VRAM, between value and performance.

[Deicide]

5700xt and 5700 models are 2 different cards. I've got the 5700xt Red Devil

[rocho]

I'm afraid I'm going to stick with my 1070 Ti until graphics cards prices come down, maybe a few years yet, unfortunately. 

I hope I don't have to go back to monitor and keep using my CV1.

[kendo]

5 hours ago, Todt_Von_Oben said:

If you're gonna synch the sim with a hotter range of GPU, I'd suggest the 3080 as a middling benchmark .....

 

 

Funny!

 

As the next post says, it's effectively a £1560 card currently.

 

In what alternative universe can a 3080 be called 'middling'?

 

Edited January 29, 2022 by kendo

[Cravis]

Okay.

I hope this change in the engines involves more engines on air planes. Bigger bomber formations with heavy bombers such as the B-17 or Lancaster would be nice.

 

Overall i think the game looks alright, especially with the new clouds.

 

I think if you update the engine and increase the requirements it should come with some benefits to the actual gameplay. A good example would be your up-coming new runway surfaces. They will make airfields visually more interesting and hopefully also provide some differences in ground handling. This way we will have a visual aspect but also get a gameplay aspect with it.

A greater draw distance usually also benefits visuals and gameplay.

Bigger maps. 

 

Anyway I think I will be handle to handle whatever you throw in my direction considering I run a RX 6900 XT. Well everything except maybe Ray Tracing... well you can do that when you also add nativ support for FSR.

Please for the love of god avoid proprietary technologies.

[Rapierarch]

Wow I envy you guys. I really did not expect so many 3080 and 3090's. Wow! again.

 

[Drum]

Well, if you want a new 3080 yourself, you're looking at paying around 2k in U.S dollars which is ruffly 1k over priced and wasted value.  If you put an extra 1k with that 2k into a new PC+3080 that new system will increase the 3080's performance even more due to the improved components.  By the time graphic card prices do lower to sane levels again, you're PC will probably require an upgrade anyways.

 

Right now new computers are selling at great prices, but those deals won't outlast this video card fiasco, IMO.

Edited January 29, 2022 by Drum
IMO

[Vishnu]

I need to retake the poll.   For some stupid reason I picked 512 ram....I actually have 6gb

Edited January 30, 2022 by Vishnu

[StG2_Nosch]

On 1/28/2022 at 2:59 AM, Jason_Williams said:

DD 305 continued...
 

EVERYONE PLEASE TAKE THIS POLL

 

As posted in DD #305, we are working on some changes to the engine and it might require an increase in certain minimum system requirements. Especially in the video card category. So, we would like everyone to take this special poll below and answer the questions. This will give us some insight into what video cards you are currently using, or if you plan to buy a particular card quite soon go ahead and select what you are planning to own say within the next 30-60 days. We know upgrading cards right now is tough due to shortages, but we’d like to know where you currently are or plan to go soon with a new card to give us a snapshot. Thanks in advance.

Jason

 

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

15 hours ago, kendo said:

 

Can't see that they would possibly go that high, especially after Sneaksie's comment 

As Shamrock said they could double min requirements to 4GB without leaving too many behind

 

Yeah, I think I backed off of my original assessment (1080's) somewhere in this thread but I'd be surprised if the 10 series cards don't become the minimum standard. It is both reasonable for the consumer and necessary for the developer.

 

There are already problems with some of the 9 series cards that have nothing to do with the engine. The performance jump isn't that much from the 7 to 9 series cards, particularly in comparison to the 10's.

 

It's still an evolutionary bump to 10 series and not some radical/revolutionary jump - but the ability to go to DX12 is mouth watering if YouTube and the internets are to be believed.

 

Again, it's a reasonable expectation/jump for the game to mature. We are nearly a decade since the original anouncement and we are four (or more) series of cards in advancement since then. 7734, this is my second system and third card since the launch.

 

I had one of those 9 series cards that nVidia couldn't/wouldn't troubleshoot to make the game work and bumped up to a 1070 which was the absolute right choice at the time. I don't want to lock anyone out but expecting ten year old cards to play games in 2022 is not a reasonable expectation either.

Edited January 30, 2022 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[kitsunelegend]

All these people saying they're worried about their 1070s, 1080s, 2070s, 2080s, suddenly having issues with the new tech... meanwhile I'm stuck back in the stone ages with an old as hell 970 2gb that I bought used from a friend back in 2015 when my old r7 260x kicked the bucket lol

 

And sadly, between needing car parts, rent, and food, and with prices going up, and the GPU market currently on fire and out of control price wise, I wont wont be upgrading to anything for at least a few more years, if I'm lucky...

[Clay-menTheGumbie]

Hope You guys are Keeping in Mind the New Tech coming this 3rd Quarter who knows what holds the Future of Graphic cards,  hell Intel is even making GPU at this time.

[DFLion]

Thanks Jason for this very interesting update. You won't believe this, but I am currently running a Gainwood GeForce GTX 960 with 4GB VRAM and everything runs very, very well in the game. 

I am currently updating my whole computer system and I am looking very seriously at buying a Gainwood Phoenix RTX 3080TI with 12GB (prices are a bit crazy at the moment - though I'm working on a deal?).

Regarding the 'RECON GUI' update, I think this would be a great interactive feature in 'Great Battles' which will immerse us all more in the gameplay - I would certainly incorporate a Recon mission in my mission making, especially in a campaign.

Keep these communications coming.

DFLion?

[Captain-Caveman]

I have a Intel 520 on i5300U and it plays pretty stable for non fighter operations. With 16g of ram I achieve 15-20 fps.

I am awaiting a Quatro 1200 EGPU.

 

[Captain-Caveman]

You can always just throw everything away to gain a better iL-2 life. Such as sleep in a tent on the moist hard ground somewhere in the woods and wait for your cheap parts to arrive by Amazon Drone Drop.

I invented DroneDrop.?

[jollyjack]

In regards of updating my PC i will stick to my 2080ti until there is a less heat generating new GPU cool design that does not appear to be an unwanted room heater.

I don't even use acceleration tuning etc.

[BOO]

Theres a lot of comments about the RTX 30XX price/availabilty. Im not sure its all warranted. You CAN get a 3000 series card for the MRSP in the UK and Eurpoe IF a) you are happy with FE editions and b) you are at least partially switched on.

 

Most EU countrys and the UK have an Nvidia preferrd partner. These partners get regular monthly stock. Knowing when the stock goes on sale (via a decent parts checker app) and doing something about it quickly (by having a registered account ready to go) is usually enough to successfully purchase a card.  

 

My lad, a firend and myself have all done this. I know of others on the DCS forum who have also done the same.  We got the cards we wanted on the first try at MRSP.

 

Its not ideal and you are limited to design which wont suit everyone but iits something. 

[NLSTArktossGaming]

I gotta say, Having a game like this to allow you to play on almost anything is really nice.
Before i got my GTX 1080 Xtreme Gaming i was forced to use a Nvidia Gt710 to play.
And even with that low powered card i was able to hit 30FPS.
However, by now you should atleast got a Nvidia 10 series card or a AMD Radeon equivalent to that.
if not, you should maybe focus on upgrading.
Yes i know PC parts, escpecially GPUs are really expensive right now. 
But somethimes you need to bite the bullet.

[ronick]

wait a bit everyone for video card upgrade. ethereum is moving to POS. this should drop prices on cards significantly in a few upcoming months.

and yes we need better image and faster cards!

[ER*Wumme]

First :   IL 2 is not a challenging  Simulator. Look at DCS or MFS 2020... 

  But I was suprised that only 13 percent  ( i m using a 6900 XT) have  a AMD-card .  Jason mentioned that AMD cards make often problems. I hope , no i know the devs will support the AMD- fraction in the future .

Horrido

[Aliocha62Mordreddesurmia]

I have a GTX 970 with a 4.4GHz I7 boost and 16GB of RAM on a PC mounted in 2015, I was planning to upgrade my tower to a Ryzen 5800 and a Radeon RX 6800 but it's become prohibitively expensive, so thank you for still allowing me to run IL2 Great Battles even though I understand you need to upgrade your graphics engine. 
It was one of the advantages that I found in addition to the historical aspect and the content compared to DCS World.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

[Cravis]

2 hours ago, ER*Wumme said:

But I was suprised that only 13 percent  ( i m using a 6900 XT) have  a AMD-card .  Jason mentioned that AMD cards make often problems.

 

They really don't.

The times in which AMD drivers are bad are a thing of the past and honestly the Nvidia drivers have been a mess for some time now.

Most people buy Nvidia because Nvidia has the better marketing, word-of-mouth recommendation or they are used to owning a Nvidia product.

If someone doesn't know much about computer hardware they will buy Nvidia. Nvidia usually also has the OEM market on their side: You want to buy a ready to use gaming PC the chances are very high it comes with a Nvidia card.

Most people will tell you a 3090 is faster than a 6900 XT despite a XTXH 6900 XT matching the performance of a 3090 just fine. There are games that are faster on 3090 and there a games that are faster on a 6900 XT, as usual. Depending on how website select their test environment they can force one card or the other to lead the summery.

There is a difference in the usefulness of Ray Tracing but only if the game in question supports DLSS.

DLSS 2.0+ in general has the edge over FSR in image quality and performance but FSR is open source and can be done by anyone while DLSS needs direkt Nvidia support. FSR can also be utilized by any modern graphics card from any manufacturer while DLSS only works if you have a Nvidia card 20XX or newer.

 

Considering a XTXH 6900 XT currently goes for roughly 1500€ and a 3090 goes for ~2500€ people should have way more 6900 XT, but they don't.

Nobody can tell me a 3090 is worth 1000€ over a 6900 XT.

 

I own a PowerColour Radeon RX 6900 XT Red Devil Ultimate which is equipped with a Navi 21 XTXH.

I payed 1549€ for it. 

Considering the AMD reference card has a MSRB of 1.067,35€ and heavily OCed custom cards tend to add anything between 150 and 200€ on that MSRB I probably paid roughly 20% to 25% premium. That is a "bargain" in todays environment.

Of course that is me reasoning my bad purchase decisions. ?

[S10JlAbraxis]

On 1/29/2022 at 12:19 PM, Redwo1f said:

 

Bingo --- that is my whole point.

 

Whatever avenue 1C takes, they can't go back and render somebody's already purchased game useless to them --- that is the concern as the game connects to 1C's servers upon start up and will patch automatically. If they make backward changes that increase the requirements of the game, they have to have a system in place that allows customers to keep their games intact if they see fit.

 

Don't get me wrong here - I am all for advancement and progress made with the game engine. I'd love that (dependent). And I don't think I have to worry too too much personally I hope (?). Just I find myself being a consumer advocate for those that have low spec systems and being fair and just to them as well.  

But how far do you take this?  20 years from now someone will still be using a 1080 and demanding that a 2020 version of IL2 be available on the server.  The very nature of computer games is constant evolution.  if developers are held back by people with 10 year old systems they will go out of business and flight sims will be no more.

[Motherbrain]

Geforce RTX 2080 Super with 8gb of VRAM. Runs Il-2GB very well.

[Kernel29]

1 hour ago, S10JlAbraxis said:

But how far do you take this?  20 years from now someone will still be using a 1080 and demanding that a 2020 version of IL2 be available on the server.  The very nature of computer games is constant evolution.  if developers are held back by people with 10 year old systems they will go out of business and flight sims will be no more.

 

Well... while I support the idea of (at least) temporarily opting out of a potentially major update to preserve playability for the short-term (again, not implying the devs would continue to actively support these "legacy" versions, and be held back from developing the game further), I do think 20 years would be a bit of a stretch. I'd feel pretty bad for myself if I had the exact same computer and specs two decades from now, and somehow didn't have the means to upgrade for 20 years. But even if I was in this position, my future old man-self certainly wouldn't have any right to demand an obsolete game version from decades past.

Again, I think what's being proposed is just an option to voluntarily opt out of updates and keep an older (and unsupported) version of the game that could at least be played for the near future (or until graphic card prices reach a baseline level of sanity, which hopefully won't be the year 2040...). This is exactly what I did with DCS World, of which the newest version eventually exceeded the requirements of the computer I had at the time. But I was able to keep an older, depreciated version of the program, which I could play for a couple more years until I upgraded my computer and finally was able to play the latest version. 

Edited January 30, 2022 by Kernel29

[Capt_Hook]

On 1/28/2022 at 7:37 PM, II/JG17_HerrMurf said:

 

I'd be really suprised, again looking at the numbers, if they decided to make a jump that it'd be anything less than a 1050/60 card. Anything less and it wouldn't be worth the effort in the first place both from a user numbers and a performance advantage point of view.

I'm not a professional coder, but I'd think doubling the VRAM requirement would make for a significant performance advantage.  I'm amazed the engine can do what it does with a 2 GB floor.  Though I wouldn't be unhappy at all about 1060 minimum performance.  

[=69.GIAP=Shvak]

On 1/28/2022 at 5:59 PM, TheBlackPenguin said:

2070 here too lol. Where did those 3080's come from, what is is their secret? :).

He does ask are likely to buy... That makes it more a wish list more than a I have list... I have a 2080 super and will not be upgrading anytime soon. 

[Gewehr_43]

At current market rates, I'll be rockin' this 1070ti forever.  Surprisingly, it handles most things at 4k pretty well.  

[bino]

NVidia RTX 2080 Super with 8 GB video RAM

"MSI Super Ventus XS OC"

 

[Redwo1f]

12 hours ago, S10JlAbraxis said:

But how far do you take this?  20 years from now someone will still be using a 1080 and demanding that a 2020 version of IL2 be available on the server.  The very nature of computer games is constant evolution.  if developers are held back by people with 10 year old systems they will go out of business and flight sims will be no more.

 

But I didn't say that, nor am I suggesting holding back the developers or game advancement at all (please read what I wrote again).

[III/JG52_Al-Azraq]

On 1/28/2022 at 6:31 PM, Vortice said:

So if only 5% of participants have an RTX 3090 or 3090Ti how come 10% claim to have more than 12GB of Vram? ?

 

In my case, I thought they were asking for RAM and I guess many others are as stupid as me ?

 

Anyway, I hope they get these graphical improvements in as simulators like these ones have to evolve. Also I've got into VR very recently and I hope this means they are going to get TAA into the sim to improve the AA solution as MSAA with deferred rendering is really not the best thing. It creates jaggies in VR and performs badly.

[FliegerAas]

1070ti 8G on Desktop and 2070 8G on Laptop. I chose the 1070ti for the Poll as I use my Desktop for IL2 and the raw performance of the two cards is roughly similar anyway (unless you plan to include DLSS).

 

Back when I was still young and naive in late 2020 I wanted to upgrade my graphics card and get a 3070 or 3070ti, maybe even a 3080. Seeing the prices and the fact that the 3070s came with 8G of memory AGAIN led to the decision to wait for RTX 4000 / RX 7000.

[AtomicP]

I plan to stick with my 1060 6 GB for as long as possible. I can't justify (nor afford) upgrading since getting anything that is significantly better is crazy money. Wild card in this stuff is Intel which has new dedicated video cards due out this year. I wonder if it can offer anything competitive in performance/price terms and manufacture enough to satisfy demand? I'd bet the latter is a good prospect since Intel owns its fabs whereas Nvidia and AMD do not and TSMC is running at full capacity.

[216th_Jordan]

Would be nice to know what this would be about.

 

Il-2 needs high FPS currently because the engine produces quite a lof of jitter (if that is by framepacing or something else I am not entirely sure). Other games run at half the frames and seem just as fluid. (Albeit many are AAA titles)
If Il-2 could manage to get the jitter away they could invest quite a lot in GPU heavy operations me thinks.

[Picchio]

Desires aside, I feel it would be wise to check the results of the Russian forum, for a broader view.

[Anbztht]

Im still using my  2gb gt1030 xD, i guess i'll go back to previous games while updating the desktop.

[Tactical]

Dear Devs,

I play exclusively in VR.

Please, if you make changes make it non-destructive. Eye candy is not the most important thing. The game is about air combat. Even with a good system that I have when there are many planes i suffer frame losses in vr. Please make sure that the game won't stutter, or that you can turn off the new effects in the menu.

 

Here are my specs:

CPU:Intel i9-9900k

GPU: RTX2080Ti 11GB

RAM: 32GB/3200MHz CL14

SSD: Samsung 970 PRO 1TB M.2 PCIe