Objective-based MP

[Praetor]

Just wondering what some ideas might be for objectives in multiplayer.  Supporting ground troops as they advance on a base while the other side is trying to destroy them?  Are capture points possible, allowing us to take bases and actually use them?

 

I think the outdated Aces High really has the best MP system in place for open-ended, unscripted objectives.

[ShamrockOneFive]

Not familiar with what Aces High could do... what were the options?

 

I'm hoping for at least IL-2 1946 + FBDj capability... so in other words the ability to run scenarios with targets for both teams. Targets could be aircraft numbers destroyed, or X amount of tanks/vehicles/trains or even a percentage destroyed in a target zone. I also love the idea of what War Thunder does with the target bases and destroying a percentage of buildings also counts as targets.

 

I'm hopeful.

[Finkeren]

Just having something akin to the RoF new wings servers, with recon, escort of AI and bombing objectives being done in a certain order to influence aircraft availability and the ability to completely suppress airfields and close them for the other team would be a huge improvement.

 

It's been a while since I last fired up RoF, but I never truly grew tired of the MP there. If BoS can just deliver a similar experience, I'll consider it a success.

Edited July 13, 2014 by Finkeren

[Praetor]

Aces High is a persistent map with bases, supply lines, strategic targets affecting the whole team, etc.  Each base has fighter hangers, radar, bomber hangers, fuel, ammo, etc.  You knock those out at those bases and those particular bases lose that option.  You can then capture the base if you knock down their associated city and drop troops into it.  

 

There are no triggers or scenarios, it's all open-ended with this very detailed capture the flag.  

 

Something similar would be great.  Otherwise it's difficult to find purpose in MP.

Edited July 13, 2014 by Praetor

[ShamrockOneFive]

Sounds interesting. Not the only way to make MP interesting IMHO but definitely something to explore... the idea of dropping troops in to a certain zone to capture a base and change the frontline sounds like a really cool option. This would give a good reason for having an airlift type aircraft like the Ju52 and the Li-2 added to the game.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Some random objectives would be nice, though it might be nessecary to increase match duration for multiple random objectives (like AI bomber escorting, convoy guarding/destroying, ect). Fullfilling objectives should provide more points and maybe (in far future) earn you medals. I liked the RoF server system very much and it's more than expectable to fit BoS in the same way.

[BeastyBaiter]

If BoS copies RoF's FMB abilities (very likely) then I think everyone will be fairly happy with it. RoF can do capture the flag (including capturing airbases), factory objectives tied to plane/ground force availability, AI bombers, AI fighters, recon objectives, ground force objectives and so much more possible. We'll have to wait for the FMB and the ability of users to make a MP server to use this, but those things are coming.

[Gambit21]

If BoS copies RoF's FMB abilities (very likely) then I think everyone will be fairly happy with it.

RoF user created missions are awfully sparse for an FMB that so many people are happy with.

I think the features are there, it's the user-friendly aspect that's the problem.

[BeastyBaiter]

I'd agree with that. I created a lot of fairly complex missions for IL2, lockon, ArmA and others, but never figured out BoS's FMB. But ignoring the user unfriendliness aspect, it is incredably powerful. I have much more desire to learn BoS's FMB than RoF however. WW2 is more my thing, so I'm willing to put in more effort.

[Gambit21]

That's what I'm hoping will happen - it being WWII, more people will brave the learning curve now.

I made a bunch of missions for the old IL2, and a few nice campaigns. I don't have time these days though to build missions.

Counting on guys like you.

[=LD=Hethwill]

"Day by day" squads & objectives MP as per historical as possible.

 

As RoF - choose airfield, choose squad, choose available plane - but with objectives assigned to the squad according to the "date & time" being run in the server.

 

With thousands of sorties done by each flight group on each side we won't miss action. Gigantic FMB work but great "immersion" in MP.

 

Server cycle through the 3 - 4 months in a 1:6 scale for example.

 

Rinse and repeat.

[Feathered_IV]

One thing RoF does not do well is provide incentive for bomber and recon flyers. There are no points awarded for these tasks on the leaderboards. The DF crowd get the satisfaction and sense of victory from a kill. A recon or bomber pilot gets no reward whatsoever. They feel like a freak as they go about their business. No matter how good they are, the best they can hope for is a record on the leaderboards of hours flown. They can win every objective, roll the map and do so without loss, or win the availability of newer fighters for their side. The best they can hope for as a reward is a snide, "Thx for teh Fokker D7 motherf*ucker lol" in the chat bar.

[BraveSirRobin]

One thing RoF does not do well is provide incentive for bomber and recon flyers. There are no points awarded for these tasks on the leaderboards. The DF crowd get the satisfaction and sense of victory from a kill. A recon or bomber pilot gets no reward whatsoever. They feel like a freak as they go about their business. No matter how good they are, the best they can hope for is a record on the leaderboards of hours flown. They can win every objective, roll the map and do so without loss, or win the availability of newer fighters for their side. The best they can hope for as a reward is a snide, "Thx for teh Fokker D7 motherf*ucker lol" in the chat bar.

 

That is true for recon, but not for bombers.  Bomber pilots often top the leader board in RoF.

[Brano]

In WWI it was recon+arty spotting as top priority.Then came fighters as reaction to have smtg that can bring down those pesky recce planes.Bombers were 3rd rank with not much significance in deciding whats going on down in the mud.

[=69.GIAP=STENKA69GIAP]

With the open architecture of the mission builder you can have more or less any objectives you want. The missions can be generated from third party systems or built in the editor and analysed by third party, the stats show both ground and air events and can be parsed with third party tools.

 

We are building the BoSWar collaborative MP campaign manager software at the moment. It was prototyped using rise of flight and after conversion to BoS I can already generate a Bos Mission, fly it, analyse the stats removing killed objects, check for attained objectives, resupply new vehicles to supply points, new planes to airfields, plan the movements of ground forces and generate next mission.

 

If you want an example I could check if a T34 is within 50 metres of Paulus' bunker and that no German vehicle is closer than 1000 metres = condition of battle won. Effectively we define control points, we have ownership of airfields, bridge damage status is controlled etc.

 

Aftere that you build as much imagination into your campaign ruleset as you want. You build the points system you want, in the past we have had points for published screenshot photos of HQs or Hospitals, dropping spares to submarines, picking up spies, blowing up the generals car, train or cathouse....

 

This does require organisation with multiple squads, planning and flying together over 5-25 missions but there are plenty of squads keen to do that. 

[SYN_Mike77]

That sounds great Stenka!  Also if you want to see what is available in RoF, check out the syndicate server.  During the week we run a co-opish type mission and on Sunday we have a very mission based scenario up.  You have to do recon, bombing, arty spotting as well as fighting.  Bases get closed or opened depending on what you and your team do so the incentive is there to do more than just dogfight.  I'm assuming that all of this will be available in BoS. 

[Brano]

I can confirm,Syndicate server is very good.Only drawback is lack of awarding for recce pilots.It is frustrating to perform recon mission with no points earned.I hope it will not be case in BoS.Or was it changed recently?Not flying RoF much in last months

[Praetor]

I was hoping for more of a dynamic and persistent MP experience.  Not Call of Duty in the air with specific map times and objectives.  It will then be a race to do the same thing over and over, from map to map.  Fly to here, kill X tank which will always be in the same position at a given map time, etc.  That's...gamey.

 

I was hoping for a persistent, dynamic environment more similar to playing Falcon 4.0 online, or, again, Aces High.  There a single map can last for a month, or 6 months until victory conditions are met. 

[kestrel79]

I'm right there with you Praetor. It boggles my mind why no dev has ever made a flight sim that is pretty much "a more hardcore Aces High with better graphics and flight model." That's pretty much my perfect game right there.

 

I STILL remember playing Air Warrior on AOL in the late 90s. Hundreds of planes per server, you had to drop paratroopers with C-47s to take bases, you could hit ammo dumps and plane factories deep behind enemy lines to not allow the other team to use those planes it was amazing. Yet still 15 years later our flight sims don't have these great gameplay features.

 

I know many full real IL2 servers had missions on each map, but it would be nice to have a moving front where things change over time. As a bomber pilot I hope there's reward for flying them in BoS just as much as fighters.

[SCG_Neun]

I'd love to see a "Dynamic Campaign Generator" for BOS.  It was simple to use and the customized settings could really churn out some detailed exciting missions, at the click of a few keystrokes.  It's just going to take some time for BOS to evolve, but with what I've seen so far in the sim.....it's got an awful lot of potential....

[Sparrer]

S!

 

I was hoping for more of a dynamic and persistent MP experience.  Not Call of Duty in the air with specific map times and objectives.  It will then be a race to do the same thing over and over, from map to map.  Fly to here, kill X tank which will always be in the same position at a given map time, etc.  That's...gamey.

 

I was hoping for a persistent, dynamic environment more similar to playing Falcon 4.0 online, or, again, Aces High.  There a single map can last for a month, or 6 months until victory conditions are met. 

 

Completely agree with that

Very happy about Stenka quest, and i so hope we have an online war to BoS, even with the lack of features presented so far (no FMB, no transport planes, no COOP.....but the world record of an game release)



Swapping the amazing experience of online wars in old il246 to just the better graphics of BoS is a big throwback.

 

[SYN_Mike77]

I think Falcon 4 may have been the worst thing to ever happen to flight sims (note, I never played the game).  On the one han, everyone who played it swears the campaign was the greatest thing since sliced bread and complains that no sim ever has come close since.  On the other hand, it is known as the component that sank the whole company so no sim maker will touch it with a 10 foot pole.  It's a lose-lose situation. 

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Aces High is a persistent map with bases, supply lines, strategic targets affecting the whole team, etc.  Each base has fighter hangers, radar, bomber hangers, fuel, ammo, etc.  You knock those out at those bases and those particular bases lose that option.  You can then capture the base if you knock down their associated city and drop troops into it.  

 

There are no triggers or scenarios, it's all open-ended with this very detailed capture the flag.  

 

Something similar would be great.  Otherwise it's difficult to find purpose in MP.

I suggested something similar to this about two months ago and got shouted down/snickered at for the rest of the day.

[SCG_Neun]

I suggested something similar to this about two months ago and got shouted down/snickered at for the rest of the day.

Are you kidding me? On this forum?

[FuriousMeow]

Swapping the amazing experience of online wars in old il246 to just the better graphics of BoS is a big throwback.

 

 

What makes you think you swapped online wars for better graphics? Just because it isn't happening right now doesn't mean it won't, because it will. RoF runs online battles/wars/scenarios and they are great. Not to mention the persistent maps where there are objectives that make sense. Defend your factories, you get the next airplane in the line up (AlbDIII to AlbDVa, etc) and destroy the other sides factories, their planeset does not progress. It doesn't get out of control because the map makers  have the controls over that. We'll have a sandbox at release, its up to us to do what we want. So many say they want to do this or that, but we'll see if that holds true when the tools are available.

[354thFG_Leifr]

Just having something akin to the RoF new wings servers, with recon, escort of AI and bombing objectives being done in a certain order to influence aircraft availability and the ability to completely suppress airfields and close them for the other team would be a huge improvement.

 

It's been a while since I last fired up RoF, but I never truly grew tired of the MP there. If BoS can just deliver a similar experience, I'll consider it a success.

 

Yarp! Another 'thumbs up' for the RoF system, especially those run on New Wings and Syndicate. The MP missions were always fluid and dynamic, despite being 'the same' on certain nights - never knew what was going to happen or in what order! The CLoD system is also quite nice on ATAG, if a little less predictable.

[BigPickle]

Objective based multiplayer is a fantastic idea and should happen.

[=69.GIAP=STENKA69GIAP]

Some of you guys don't seem to listen, multi-player campaign generation is under development, I have a small team cutting code and testing now. Syndicate guys have a chat with Vander he knows what is being prepared. The BoS FMB exists and several experienced members of the ROF community are already working with it.

 

Multi player will not be based on Aces High or Falcon 4, it will be based on work that was done on Rise Of Flight and principles that were developped on IL2 1946.

 

Why don't you google SEOW and you will get an idea of the direction we are going?

 

777 are focussing on core product launch, but they have been very co-operative in helping comunity based developments get started well before the launch.

[=38=Tatarenko]

That's great news!

[kestrel79]

Good news Stenka thanks.

[354thFG_Leifr]

Fantastic to hear.

[Gambit21]

...and is exactly what I said would happen weeks and weeks ago when certain people who shall remain nameless were crying that the sky is falling.

Yes, it's very good news - thanks Stenka.

[Kleinburger]

Some of you guys don't seem to listen, multi-player campaign generation is under development, I have a small team cutting code and testing now. Syndicate guys have a chat with Vander he knows what is being prepared. The BoS FMB exists and several experienced members of the ROF community are already working with it.

 

Multi player will not be based on Aces High or Falcon 4, it will be based on work that was done on Rise Of Flight and principles that were developped on IL2 1946.

 

Why don't you google SEOW and you will get an idea of the direction we are going?

 

777 are focussing on core product launch, but they have been very co-operative in helping comunity based developments get started well before the launch.

 

SEOW, nostalgia hits hard 

[Praetor]

I never played RoF.  Could someone summarize the MP aspect of the game? Is it a persistent map, or timed rounds?

[Chuck_Owl]

Objectives can be explicit or implicit. They can be directly scripted into the game, or they can be a goal that players set themselves in order to accomplish a set of objectives. Let me clarify.

Some of the best online missions I have done with CloD were not the ones where I was told that "Red Side must destroy 50 aircraft to win the match". The best missions I have done were, believe it or not, flying bombers. Let's take a real mission we've flown.

 

The objective was to destroy an airfield. We've often had to bomb factories, tank divisions, infantry divisions... it could be anything, really. We formed up an organized flight of 4-5 bombers and planned a course to navigate between enemy patrol points. We could spend a good 5-10 minutes just planning the operation and getting everyone ready. We would take into account enemy positions, AAA locations, usual enemy patrol points and we would plan the mission accordingly, just as real-life pilots did. We also had a flight of 4-5 fighter escorts, which had to plan their own course in order to link up with the bombers and make pairs in order to cover different altitudes. And the (enemy) Luftwaffle pilots actively search for you and get organized on their side to find you and shoot you down.

Basically, the fighters' objective was to keep the bombers alive. Of course, they had to shoot down enemy planes, but the fact that their objective were breathing, talking human beings makes it much, much more compelling. Humans have emotions. You can sometimes hear the scared voice of the bomber pilot you're escorting, and you feel a sense of urgency that no script can ever provide. And these pilots are guys you're used to fly with, most of the time, so you feel a need to help them. When I'm flying escort, there's nothing I hate more than losing a bomber. When I'm flying a bomber, there's nothing I hate more than the claustrophobic feeling of helplessness when you're left there to dry. However, I like to know when fighters have my back and I can rely on them to keep me alive. 

And that feeling where you drop your bombs on target... it's an amazing feel. Especially after you've had to fly 15 minutes to get there.

So, what was originally a boring "destroy X target" became an amazing adventure because people got organized and worked together to accomplish something that single pilots will just not achieve by themselves.    Edited July 23, 2014 by 71st_AH_Chuck

[Praetor]

But you're still essentially winning maps.  There is no persistence to the world.  Once that mission is over, you redo it.  The objectives never change. 

 

One of the reasons I like Aces High so much is because the battles last a month or so.  You gain ground, capture points, and the front moves.  It gives meaning to your flying, instead of it being COD in the air. 

[Chuck_Owl]

In an ideal world, of course... the Aces High system is fantastic. I would love it to be implemented in BoS, for sure... but I don't think 777 has the resources to pull off something like that, no matter how cool it is. Servers need to be restarted for maintenance, sometimes they crash, and sometimes people just don't like the mission. Map rotation is an important factor. Missions on ATAG run for what... 3-4 hours max? People always want different things, especially in MP. I think that map rotation is a happy medium.

Nowadays, you just can't run a server for a whole month without any interruption. Aces High is a game that requires relatively low-end hardware. BoS, on the other hand...

Edited July 23, 2014 by 71st_AH_Chuck

[Praetor]

I'm just worried it's going to restrict fighting styles.  You're essentially in a small box.  I can't see many 20,000ft fights.  There is no reason.

[FuriousMeow]

I'm just worried it's going to restrict fighting styles.  You're essentially in a small box.  I can't see many 20,000ft fights.  There is no reason.

 

There weren't many historically either. Eastern front air combat was typically below 15,000ft.

[III/JG11_Tiger]

Some of you guys don't seem to listen, multi-player campaign generation is under development, I have a small team cutting code and testing now. Syndicate guys have a chat with Vander he knows what is being prepared. The BoS FMB exists and several experienced members of the ROF community are already working with it.

 

Multi player will not be based on Aces High or Falcon 4, it will be based on work that was done on Rise Of Flight and principles that were developped on IL2 1946.

 

Why don't you google SEOW and you will get an idea of the direction we are going?

 

777 are focussing on core product launch, but they have been very co-operative in helping comunity based developments get started well before the launch.

 

My squad (pretty much inactive lately, unfortunately) had a fair bit of involvement in testing SEOW and we often used to have a beer with the designer, probably one of the best and most detailed online wars we flew in, it would be great if we can get to play something similar in BOS.

 

These online campaigns are what keeps people coming back week after week, I cant wait.

Edited July 24, 2014 by III/JG11_Tiger