What are the differences between BF-109 G models and G/AS models?

[Scent]

I want to know, any information is welcome!

[percydanvers]

Different engine optimized for high altitude performance. 

[Asgar]

technically? the AS engine

performance wise? mostly high alt performance, FTH is increased to around 7800m on G-6/AS IIRC

[Eisenfaustus]

Optically they have the streamlined cowling of the G10/K4 instead of the bulges of the G6/G14. 

[the_emperor]

For your interest:

BF 109 G-5/AS with 3230kg is in good agreement of roughly ~3200kg

BF109G-6 with 3350kg is given with gondolas, If you substract the 212kg its on the lighter side with with 3138kg, and if you "add" the 12kph the G-6 is a few kph (~2) faster below FTH, since the engine has some 40hp more which is countered by the streamlined cowling of the AS-version

 

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by the_emperor

[CUJO_1970]

/AS variants had bigger superchargers for better high altitude performance. They could also be equipped with GM-1 and MW50.

 

These aircraft existed in large numbers, but it was decided not to include them in Great Battles.

[Kurfurst]

Basically they had the large supercharger of the DB603 series mounted on the smaller DB605A or D.

Its the same supercharger as on the K, but the AS series came earlier, and were operations in March - April 1944 as an interim solution, a several so equipped fighter wings took part in the Normandy campaign, so its quite a mystery why it is not there in the BON expansion. The first prototype was tested in September 1943 and the type entered production in December 1943. 

 

The ‘S’ stands for ‘Sonder’ or special version. The first ones were modifications from existing (pressurized) G-5s and (unpressurized, more common) G-6 series, later in mid-1944 it was standardized with MW boost as the G-14/AS.
 

Externally they can be best identified by the streamlined engine hood and the wide propellers, as on the K series, and if the hood is off, the curved engine bearers. 
 

The bigger supercharger increased rated altitude by about 2 km and power output by about 200 HP. This meant speed went from about 640 km/h at 6,7 km altitude on the ‘normal’ G series to about 670 at 9 km on the AS series (and around 690 at 7,5 km when it was equipped with methanol boost).

 

In short, they had far better performance at altitude while low and medium altitude performance was marginally lower, and with methanol it was better at every altidude; in fact it has a very similar performance envelope as the K series (no surprise as it has the same supercharger) although a bit slower due to worse aerodynamics. 
 

An early G5-AS photographed in April 1944 and the so equipped Gruppen bases and movements during the Normandy campaign.

Edited January 23, 2022 by VO101Kurfurst

[ww2fighter20]

1 hour ago, VO101Kurfurst said:

That Normandy map is outdated, the new map (published from early 2020) looses quite an bit of the eastern part as seen here:

[CountZero]

1 hour ago, VO101Kurfurst said:

Basically they had the large supercharger of the DB603 series mounted on the smaller DB605A or D.

Its the same supercharger as on the K, but the AS series came earlier, and were operations in March - April 1944 as an interim solution, a several so equipped fighter wings took part in the Normandy campaign, so its quite a mystery why it is not there in the BON expansion. The first prototype was tested in September 1943 and the type entered production in December 1943. 

 

The ‘S’ stands for ‘Sonder’ or special version. The first ones were modifications from existing (pressurized) G-5s and (unpressurized, more common) G-6 series, later in mid-1944 it was standardized with MW boost as the G-14/AS.
 

Externally they can be best identified by the streamlined engine hood and the wide propellers, as on the K series, and if the hood is off, the curved engine bearers. 
 

The bigger supercharger increased rated altitude by about 2 km and power output by about 200 HP. This meant speed went from about 640 km/h at 6,7 km altitude on the ‘normal’ G series to about 670 at 9 km on the AS series (and around 690 at 7,5 km when it was equipped with methanol boost).

 

In short, they had far better performance at altitude while low and medium altitude performance was marginally lower, and with methanol it was better at every altidude; in fact it has a very similar performance envelope as the K series (no surprise as it has the same supercharger) although a bit slower due to worse aerodynamics. 
 

An early G5-AS photographed in April 1944 and the so equipped Gruppen bases and movements during the Normandy campaign.

They got scared of its high alt power and cut that part from map so it dosent fit anymore,

Spit XIV dominance cant be disturbed by it now ? 

Edited January 23, 2022 by CountZero

[Kurfurst]

40 minutes ago, ww2fighter20 said:

That Normandy map is outdated, the new map (published from early 2020) looses quite an bit of the eastern part as seen here:

 
That would still leave II/Jg11 and III/Jg1 that were stationed near Beauvais airfields for the better part of June since Dday.  

[CUJO_1970]

Also work fine on Bodenplatte map - half the G14 were /AS variants.

 

Anywoo, here some cool /AS pics

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sevenless]

50 minutes ago, CUJO_1970 said:

Also work fine on Bodenplatte map - half the G14 were /AS variants.

 

We can only hope for a G5/G6/G14/AS collector to close that gap.

[CUJO_1970]

9 hours ago, VO101Kurfurst said:

Its the same supercharger as on the K, but the AS series came earlier, and were operations in March - April 1944 as an interim solution, a several so equipped fighter wings took part in the Normandy campaign, so its quite a mystery why it is not there in the BON expansion. The first prototype was tested in September 1943 and the type entered production in December 1943. 

 

 

Spoiler

 

[AndytotheD]

I’d argue it’s more likely that the AS models haven’t been included because most combat in game takes place below 15,000 feet, where the advantages of the AS engine aren’t felt. I’d be delighted for a G-14/AS though, the JG300 birds really are special 

Edited January 24, 2022 by AndytotheD

[Kurfurst]

7 hours ago, sevenless said:

 

We can only hope for a G5/G6/G14/AS collector to close that gap.

 

They should add that, especially as its a major variant that already missed Bodenplatte (one of the most numerous types at the time) and now it missed Normandy , and instead only umpteenth iteration of the Collector G-6 / BOP G-14 has been presented (not that it shouldn't as it was the most important type but it is disappointed they have sold  the same plane for the 3rd time..).

 

Production numbers for /AS variants:

76 G-5/AS

30 G-5/R2/AS

686 G-6/AS of all kinds (/U2, /U4, /R2, including 226 new production to earlier conversions)

 

1377 G-14/AS of all kinds (new production between September 44 - March 1945)

 

That's a total of 2169 of (materially identical) /AS types from December 1943 onwards to March 1945 (I may have missed some early G-14/AS conversions).

 

[Yogiflight]

10 hours ago, VO101Kurfurst said:

They should add that, especially as its a major variant that already missed Bodenplatte (one of the most numerous types at the time) and now it missed Normandy ,

But was it used by the units we have in Bodenplatte and Normandy and was it used in the tactical airwar, GB is all about. With the better high altitude performance I would guess it was mainly used to defend the Reich against B-17s and B-24s.

[sevenless]

33 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

But was it used by the units we have in Bodenplatte and Normandy and was it used in the tactical airwar, GB is all about. With the better high altitude performance I would guess it was mainly used to defend the Reich against B-17s and B-24s.

 

Yep. Was used. By example see loss list page 480 ff for Bodenplatte here:

 

Bodenplatte: The Luftwaffe's Last Hope - John Manrho, Ron Pütz - Google Books

[Roland_HUNter]

On 1/24/2022 at 10:38 AM, VO101Kurfurst said:

 

They should add that, especially as its a major variant that already missed Bodenplatte (one of the most numerous types at the time) and now it missed Normandy , and instead only umpteenth iteration of the Collector G-6 / BOP G-14 has been presented (not that it shouldn't as it was the most important type but it is disappointed they have sold  the same plane for the 3rd time..).

 

Production numbers for /AS variants:

76 G-5/AS

30 G-5/R2/AS

686 G-6/AS of all kinds (/U2, /U4, /R2, including 226 new production to earlier conversions)

 

1377 G-14/AS of all kinds (new production between September 44 - March 1945)

 

That's a total of 2169 of (materially identical) /AS types from December 1943 onwards to March 1945 (I may have missed some early G-14/AS conversions).

 

G-14/AS was produced since 1944 july.
Source: Die Messerschmitt-Werke im 2.Weltkrieg

[Feldgrun]

On 1/23/2022 at 6:17 PM, sevenless said:

 

We can only hope for a G5/G6/G14/AS collector to close that gap.

 

I expect they'll be added when we get the Viermottöter (four engine) bombers for them to attack. Most of 1943-45 Luftwaffe designs were built to counter heavy bombers, so it would follow that four engine bombers would be a future addition. I understand that this is largely a fighter sim, but fighters can either attack or defend large formations of AI bombers.

[Jaws2002]

The Bf-109 AS versions are the new Fokker DVII with Mercedes D.IIIaü. Those existed in huge numbers but are a No-No in these games.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Jaws2002

[migmadmarine]

Jaws, look back at the birthday Q&A Jason did a while back he said that they are planning on doing new engine varients for the D.VII etc. 

 

As to why the AS versions are not in game I think it is a mix of what has been said about not really having a role in game plus having them as separate variants allows for more 44/45 modules without buring through the pool of available German mainline fighters. 

[Avimimus]

21 minutes ago, migmadmarine said:

Jaws, look back at the birthday Q&A Jason did a while back he said that they are planning on doing new engine varients for the D.VII etc. 

 

As to why the AS versions are not in game I think it is a mix of what has been said about not really having a role in game plus having them as separate variants allows for more 44/45 modules without buring through the pool of available German mainline fighters. 

 

Well... hoped to possibly is probably a better way to put it  It'd be nice though - especially if they provided us with engine variants for the Sopwith Camel, S.E.5, and Sopwith Strutter... having both the slower and faster variants of these aircraft could make for much more interesting and unpredictable campaigns (as different units with the same plane, or slightly different time periods, would impact whether or not the Central Powers fighter has an edge or not - very dramatic).

[Jaws2002]

46 minutes ago, migmadmarine said:

Jaws, look back at the birthday Q&A Jason did a while back he said that they are planning on doing new engine varients for the D.VII etc. 

 

As to why the AS versions are not in game I think it is a mix of what has been said about not really having a role in game plus having them as separate variants allows for more 44/45 modules without buring through the pool of available German mainline fighters. 

 

 

Thanks. I didn't know that. It's still about ten years late.

[CUJO_1970]

No role in the game? Please close this book and never open it again. 
Half the G14 in Bodenplatte were /AS variants.

 

 

 

[Jaws2002]

Maybe we get some AS versions with the late war eastern front.

[PatrickAWlson]

3 hours ago, migmadmarine said:

Jaws, look back at the birthday Q&A Jason did a while back he said that they are planning on doing new engine varients for the D.VII etc. 

 

As to why the AS versions are not in game I think it is a mix of what has been said about not really having a role in game plus having them as separate variants allows for more 44/45 modules without buring through the pool of available German mainline fighters. 

 

Just when we thought the G-10 was the last 109, two more significant variants are unearthed.

[migmadmarine]

5 hours ago, CUJO_1970 said:

No role in the game? Please close this book and never open it again. 
Half the G14 in Bodenplatte were /AS variants.

 

 

 

What I mean is "no role that isn't equally well filled by another variant", IE the lower altitude fighting we see in the career mode, etc. with these being better tuned for high altitude flying.  I acknowledge the fact you mention, and I hope to see them in game at some point, but I think these are3 being held back as potential "mainline fighter slot fillers" for future modules and/or being a bit too different for field mods from a modeling standpoint. 3(which is a set of goalposts we don't really know). It seems likely that producing a G-6 as well as G6/AS could be significantly more research, coding and modeling work, and therefore one had to be chosen over the other, with the baseline versions being selected in both cases, and leaving the possibility of adding the souped-up ones later. 

Edited March 4, 2022 by migmadmarine