Kind of frustrated with the perfect accuracy of the A.I...

[Pea_Shooter]

It wouldn't be so bad if they went for the wing tips or the tail or even the engine for the most part... but it seems the AI can zero-in on the head right off the bat (if I may use a baseball term). So.... really? A head shot downs my plane with a few (initial) spurts of bullets from them. Geesh, is that real life in WW1 and WWII? Maybe 5-10 percent of the time I could understand it. MAYBE....

[Yogiflight]

1 hour ago, Pea_Shooter said:

Maybe 5-10 percent of the time I could understand it. MAYBE....

Only flying WW II, but for me it is definitely more 5 than 10 percent. But I am mainly flying the Bf 110. It simply has too large wings to aim for the pilot's head

[BlitzPig_EL]

My biggest gripe with the AI gunnery is their ability to score hits from ranges that are totally outside the realm of reality.  I was testing some mission changes on my server, and watched in disbelief as an AI 109 G2 blasted an AI P51B at 750 meters (measured with icons on) in two short bursts.  They also do the same kind of thing in head on shots against human players.

 

I suspect the hardest thing about AI programming is to make them less computer like, and more like real humans.  How do you tell a program not to call up all the position data that it has to generate to make the rest of the sim work?    

[Voidhunger]

I dont know guys what game you are plying but unless im flying in underdog plane AI is still joke and Im glad if im hit sometimes by enemy fire.

So extra accuracy for AI is very very very welcome! Its not fun to land at airfield with 10 victories or more.

[BlitzPig_EL]

I'm not saying they are not easy to shoot down, they are, just that they have shooting abilities that are out of all proportion compared to humans.  They will take, and make, shots at absurd distances is my observation. 

Edited January 19, 2022 by BlitzPig_EL

[Jade_Monkey]

Unless you are flying straight and level this just doesn't match my experience.

 

AI aim is not perfect and personally I really like the balance it reached. Sometimes they are really bad and sometimes they can really surprise you with a good deflection shot.

[Guster]

1 hour ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

I suspect the hardest thing about AI programming is to make them less computer like, and more like real humans.  How do you tell a program not to call up all the position data that it has to generate to make the rest of the sim work?    

 

The easy way is to throw in a dispersion randomizer, but that not very realistic in this context. It works great when simulating shotguns though. I suppose, however, this is how barrel overheating is modelled here.

 

The randomization line should rather be called when the AI is aiming its plane at an opponent. You might even want a dynamic variable in your code so that the AI pilot is affected by for example fatigue and fear.

[PatrickAWlson]

1. What kind of maneuver was the opponent engaged in?  The AI rarely hits a violently maneuvering opponent (a good thing).  It is probably overly accurate on a gently maneuvering target.  But is it really overly accurate?  On to point 2.

 

2. You have to know the AI level that you are facing.  An ace should be able to hit a gently maneuvering target at ranges up to 600 meters in WWII (closer to 150 meters in WWI).  A novice should not.  So, without knowing the AI level that you are facing you can't really make a statement about overly accurate or not.

 

My own 2 cents is that the AI is overly accurate at lower levels, as an actual novice pilot generally couldn't hit the broad side of a barn while standing inside it.  If you look at the trajectories of great aces, they usually did not hit the front and start scoring.  In PWCG I model this by advancing pilot skill from novice to average simply based on missions flown.  To get to Veteran and Ace the AI pilot has to score, but Novice level pilots are not expected to.

 

How to model this - there is an algorithm that tells the AI "shoot now".  What is needed is a fuzz factor around that decision.  Instead of a spot, create a zone in which the AI will shoot.  The better the AI level the tighter the zone, making for more accuracy.  I never say "it's so easy and it will only take five minutes" - that is almost always not even close to true.  However, such a change seems reasonable.  Inject the fuzz algorithm right before the existing decision point to alter the action point of the trigger press decision.  Does the code really look like I imagine it does?  It might not even be close, but design is fun so there it is  

 

 

 

 

[BlitzPig_EL]

For fighters, I set my AI flight leads to ace, and maybe no.2 to ace. 3 will be high, and 4 veteran.  Have to set them near or at the top of their skill levels to get challenging performance out of them.

[Guster]

I read somewhere that at a post-war RAF evaluation conference they estimated that only 3% of the bullets from the (RAF) fighters met their target.

 

I have no idea if this is accurate nor how they came up with that number, but judging from gun cam footage it sounds fairly reasonable to me.

 

On a side note, it must have been literally raining down with .303s over Kent during the Battle of Britain.

[CountZero]

im not bathered by Ai accuracy, most online players have it better, also why do head ons.

where i see ai more superior then humnas online is in its SA on any AI skill, most players online have poor SA, even some skilled in DF, while AI on lowest skill have great SA.

Edited January 19, 2022 by CountZero

[Eisenfaustus]

2 hours ago, Guster said:

The easy way is to throw in a dispersion randomizer, but that not very realistic in this context.

From my experience shooting MG and autocannons from IFVs I‘m certain that a little more dispersion for all weapons not only for AI but also the player would be far more realistic. 

2 minutes ago, CountZero said:

im not bathered by Ai accuracy, most online players have it better, also why do head ons.

where i see ai more superior then humnas online is in its SA on any AI skill, most players online have poor SA, even some skilled in DF, while AI on lowest skill have great SA.

Absolutely agree on the SA - rookiee and average AI should be far easier to ambush. 

[Mtnbiker1998]

I've seen far too many AI empty their entire belts behind a target to complain about the AI being too accurate. If they hit me its my own fault for not maneuvering.

[Noisemaker]

1 hour ago, Mtnbiker1998 said:

I've seen far too many AI empty their entire belts behind a target to complain about the AI being too accurate. If they hit me its my own fault for not maneuvering.

And I've had AI pilot kill me while in a lazy circle above them, watching them try to climb with low energy and waiting for my moment to pounce on them as they stall.  Icons on, 1.5 Km.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

5 hours ago, Guster said:

I read somewhere that at a post-war RAF evaluation conference they estimated that only 3% of the bullets from the (RAF) fighters met their target.

 

I have no idea if this is accurate nor how they came up with that number, but judging from gun cam footage it sounds fairly reasonable to me.

 

On a side note, it must have been literally raining down with .303s over Kent during the Battle of Britain.

I read a German manual for one of the ReVi sights once (somewhere on the forums here, but I cannot find it anymore...). Throughout the manual, there are two things that they incessantly hammer down on:

- Practice, practice and practice again.

- Never fire from beyond 300m.

 

IIRC, they estimated that at a 300m distance, about a third of all shells would hit the target. Mind you, this is against four-engine bombers flying in formation. Against a maneuvering fighter, 3% wouldn't surprise me.

 

That said, I do not think the AI is too accurate on average. It's just that in some situations it has almost sniper-like accuracy, whereas in other situations it can empty a whole clip at an enemy and barely hit it. Still, I agree with others above that the biggest problem right now is the AI's situational awareness.

[Guster]

9 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

That said, I do not think the AI is too accurate on average. It's just that in some situations it has almost sniper-like accuracy, whereas in other situations it can empty a whole clip at an enemy and barely hit it. Still, I agree with others above that the biggest problem right now is the AI's situational awareness.

 

In my experience, one better avoid head-ons with the AI, and they excel at certain deflection shots, but they will often waste a lot of ammo turn-fighting each other ad infinitum. As to the situation awareness I absolutely agree, and I find it very difficult, if not impossible, to sneak up on them even in 1-on-1 situations from low behind.

[Yogiflight]

1 hour ago, Guster said:

In my experience, one better avoid head-ons with the AI,

I read that several times, but I never was shot down by AI in a head-on. I made very bad experience in the old IL-2, in which head-ons always ended with me going down, if not pilot killed,so I avoided going head-on for a very long time in GB. Then I tried it and was successful. Since then I take it, if AI goes for it and don't try to avoid it. And usually the AI ends shot down with my aircraft not getting any scratch.

 

And yes, the all knowing AI, who counters your moves in the very moment you are doing them, is very unrealistic. As long as the AI is not in the RTB mode (and even this might have changed with one of the last updates) it is not possible to surprise them, except they are just attacking another aircraft.

[Gunner_Ratchenko]

Recently, we got lasered instantly by AI. I was on the Finnish war server as a gunner and we had avoided flak and all sorts and bombed some targets successfully. Then a Yak came in and one shotted all of us before I could even fire off a round. It seemed a bit unfair as literally its first round killed me, the pilot and the plane dead. I wonder if AI is a server side adjustable thing. 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

AI is not challenging at all, the agressive behavior on offensive or defensive manuvers are absent. AI should teach new players how to survive and score a kill in multiplayer environment not be just an aim practice. Other hand, you can't surprise and bounce AI  like  you would  humans is also frustrating and AI can't do quick defensive manuvers or glue to your six forcing player to try any useful defensive manuvers to survive. You just turn and that is enough to shake the ACE AI . Pathetic.

 

Ace AI can sinpe, You should avoid head on or know what to do to minimalise the risk of mutual damage this also implays to human opponents.

Edited August 29, 2023 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[JG27_Steini]

1 minute ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

AI is not challenging at all, the agressive behavior on offensive or defensive manuvers are absent. AI should teach new players how to survive and score a kill in multiplayer environment not be just an aim practice. Other hand, you can't surprise and bounce AI  like  you would  humans is also frustrating and AI can't do quick defensive manuvers or glue to your six forcing player to try any useful defensive manuvers to survive. You just turn and that is enough to shake the ACE AI . Pathetic.

 

Ace AI can sinpe, You should avoid head on or know what to do to minimalise the risk, this also implays to human opponents.

 

Reasonable AI will affect my decision to support GB any longer. Bad AI kills every immersion i do have with this game.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

1 minute ago, JG27_Steini said:

 

Reasonable AI will affect my decision to support GB any longer. Bad AI kills every immersion i do have with this game.

Understand you. I don't know how ppl are enjoying single player. Looking at games which are praised for single player they all  have one common thing - challenging and human like AI behavior.

[Russkly]

I think this topic has been done to death, but the message is clear.

 

Apparently the dev team is working on some AI improvements (according to Luke), so let's see what they come up with.

 

As someone who only plays SP, this is the biggest single issue remaining in the game for me.

[BlitzPig_EL]

As I, and many others have mentioned in the past, what is needed is to make the AI's flying ability settings independent of their shooting ability setting, and their flying abilities need to be much better.