Spit 14

[4thFG_Cap_D_Gentile]

What a disapointment! Handles like a ferry. Lacey (his paintjob is in there) wouldn't agree with that FM. They put the 14 on the tail and from there on they looked down on everyone and chose their moment.

Edited January 14, 2022 by Ojisan_Mjoelner

[percydanvers]

Well it shouldn't handle like a Spitfire XV because it's a spitfire XIV! ?

[GP*]

Having precisely zero hours in a Spit XIV...I don't know. However, in game I still find it to be quite maneuverable. It is, however, less graceful in its maneuvering compared to earlier (Merlin) Spits. It reminds me of the difference between Gustav and the K-4 (purely when compared within their own makes).

 

Now if we want to talk FM with respect to RAF aircraft...that Tempest...

[4thFG_Cap_D_Gentile]

Maybe they switched them around? ?

[I./JG52_Woutwocampe]

Many RAF pilots said that they prefered the IX to the XIV because it was more agile. 

 

The only thing that bugs me with the XIV right now is the silent engine. Overall I think that the engines arent loud enough but the Griffon sounds weak af unfortunately. But the FM? Seems ok to me.

[ShamrockOneFive]

Fast as anything and basically outclimbs everything its fighting against. It's a top notch fighter in my book.

 

Historically Spitfire pilots preferred the handling of the Mark V and IX over the XIV so its heavier feel is unsurprising.

[dannytherat]

The Spitfire XIV needs you to make pretty heavy use of rudder trim depending on the power setting and airspeed, since it's a small airframe behind a very high torque engine and a huge five-bladed propeller.

 

I think the way it's presented in game is quite prototypical. From what I've read, the handling of the XIV was considered pretty "hairy" by pilots who were more used to the more genteel handling of the Merlin-engined Spitfires.

 

If you don't use the rudder trim adequately on the XIV it shows a worrying desire to travel sideways almost as much as it's going forward. Watching the slip indicator and trimming appropriately is a good idea!

[PA_Willy]

Heavy nose. Fast. But not as stable fire platform as IX or V.

[I./JG52_Woutwocampe]

Who here totally failed their first takeoff in the XIV after forgetting the propeller was spinning counter clockwise? I sure did. Big time. It was magnificient.

[Finkeren]

The only Spit I actually like flying. It just feels heavier and less skittish. Amazing performance and still outturns anything it goes up against. Only major drawback is the enormous torque. 

[BMA_FlyingShark]

1 hour ago, Finkeren said:

The only Spit I actually like flying.

What's wrong with the others you think?

 

And on a side note, welcome back.

 

Have a nice day.

 

Edited January 14, 2022 by FlyingShark

[SYN_Ricky]

I like it, it's plenty fast, good climber, and has decent firepower with the E type wing. You can't turn as much and as tight as with the V or IX as it tends to drop a wing nastily. 

[HBPencil]

It's been at least 20 years since I last read Ginger Lacey's autobio so take this with a big grain of salt, but IIRC his squadron was the first in the CBI to convert to the XIV (from the VIII) but the war ended before they could use it in combat... so what was he comparing the XIV's performance to? But if he did use it in combat it was against the Ki43 and possibly the Ki84, not the 109K and 190D opponents as in this game.

[357th_KW]

The XIV really didn't see much combat at all.  Somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 kill claims for its entire war service.

 

I'd love to see some actual quotes of what these guys had to say about the Mk IX vs the XIV.

[LukeFF]

5 minutes ago, VBF-12_KW said:

The XIV really didn't see much combat at all.  Somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 kill claims for its entire war service

 

Not true in the slightest - it was in service from the end of 1943. 

[357th_KW]

12 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

Not true in the slightest - it was in service from the end of 1943. 

 

How many total squadrons flew the XIV?  5 or 6?  A drop in the bucket in comparison to the Mk IX.  In terms of the number of airman who flew it and the number of actual combats they were involved in, its a very small number.

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

My only beef with the 14 in game is the input lag that needs to be adjusted which makes it wobble a bit like the 109s did 5+ years ago.

[Finkeren]

13 hours ago, FlyingShark said:

What's wrong with the others you think?

 

And on a side note, welcome back.

 

Have a nice day.

 

I don't like the weird (but historically correct) way the elevator works. 

[SYN_Ricky]

40 minutes ago, Finkeren said:

I don't like the weird (but historically correct) way the elevator works. 

I do like the IX and V but there's something that bothers me with their pitch behaviour, don't know if it's normal or due to my setup/lack of skill. I never seem to find the correct trim position in pitch, the nose always wants to go up or dow. Sometimes in a dogfight I experience a sudden and brutal nose up input while I keep a steady deflection with the stick. While landing, I have a very hard time keeping the nose stable while flaring, the nose starts to go up and down and usually I end up with bad PIO trying to correct. It's the only plane in game where I encounter this behaviour...

[Gingerwelsh]

10 hours ago, VBF-12_KW said:

 

How many total squadrons flew the XIV?  5 or 6?  A drop in the bucket in comparison to the Mk IX.  In terms of the number of airman who flew it and the number of actual combats they were involved in, its a very small number.

 

Its first ops were from Jan 1944.

 

It shot down over 300 V1 Divers.

 

After D Day it formed 20 squadrons in Europe, mainly on armed reccon.

 

Late war it was on ground attack, when there was nothing left in the air to shoot at

 

It was the finest Spit of the war.

 

..

[[1Tac]DisCHQ]

It flies like a boat, is quite fast and climbs like a spacefire. The flightmodel while horribly unstable is workable, give it a bit of nose down trim and it flies a lot better.

 

The real issue with it is the horrid damage model. If you take a single HE round to tail no matter the size you go into a deathspin with no way of recovering. If you are realy lucky you can limp home with 1 single 13mm HE round in the tail, but don't count on it.

[357th_KW]

3 hours ago, Gingerwelsh said:

 

After D Day it formed 20 squadrons in Europe, mainly on armed reccon.

 

Looking at Chris Shores’ and Norman Franks’ books I’m seeing 5-6 operational squadrons from Fall of 44, with numbers even lower before that.  Total claims per Shores’ for the Mk XIV were 167.  The point I’m trying to make is that very few flew it operationally, let alone saw any air to air combat in it, so I’m a little skeptical of some of the statements above that pilots greatly preferred the earlier variants, particularly when the AFDU had a pretty glowing report of it, saying “The turning circles of both aircraft are identical. The Spitfire XIV appears to turn slightly better to port than it does to starbord. The warning of an approaching high speed stall is less pronounced in the case of the Spitfire Mk XIV” in a comparison with the Spitfire Mk IX.  I completely agree with you as far as it being the best Spit of the war.

[4thFG_Cap_D_Gentile]

13 hours ago, -332FG-drewm3i-VR said:

My only beef with the 14 in game is the input lag that needs to be adjusted which makes it wobble a bit like the 109s did 5+ years ago.

Agree, might be my problem with it.

[Gingerwelsh]

1 hour ago, VBF-12_KW said:

Looking at Chris Shores’ and Norman Franks’ books I’m seeing 5-6 operational squadrons from Fall of 44, with numbers even lower before that.  Total claims per Shores’ for the Mk XIV were 167.  The point I’m trying to make is that very few flew it operationally, let alone saw any air to air combat in it, so I’m a little skeptical of some of the statements above that pilots greatly preferred the earlier variants, particularly when the AFDU had a pretty glowing report of it, saying “The turning circles of both aircraft are identical. The Spitfire XIV appears to turn slightly better to port than it does to starbord. The warning of an approaching high speed stall is less pronounced in the case of the Spitfire Mk XIV” in a comparison with the Spitfire Mk IX.  I completely agree with you as far as it being the best Spit of the war.

 

I make it, 9 squadrons before VE day, plus another 17 formed post VE for occupation and Far East deployment, with 667 aircraft on the books at that time.

 

However you look at it, the XIV saw plenty of action.

 

Combat reports:

 

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spit14v109.html

 

..

[Denum]

It feels sloppy in game, input lag or something. I don't know how to describe it.

 

Alot of pilots said it wasn't really a Spitfire at its core. So there's that.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Lots of US pilots thought the P36 was better than the P40, and the overwhelming majority of Imperial Japanese Army pilots liked the Ki 27 better than the Ki 43. All because of maneuverability.

 

History has proven them wrong.

Edited January 15, 2022 by BlitzPig_EL

[354thFG_Panda_]

There seems to be a mixed reaction to this plane. I personally love it even with it shortcomings in handling and endurance. It's performance is awesome and you can feel the power it has. It is also incredibly gorgeous...

[Jaws2002]

The only spitfire, in game that I like. It finally looks like a fighter, without that high, moody teenage girl looking nose, of the early versions. 

If it had the bubble top, it would be perfection.

[CUJO_1970]

All aircraft moved to higher wing loads, it was the future. Yanking and banking was a dying form of aerial combat, and the FW190 concept showed the way. People that think the XIV is hard to fly crack me up - it is pure child's play compared to flying a FW190 or a P-47 in this sim.

 

The future caught up with the Spitfire.

[AndytotheD]

21 minutes ago, CUJO_1970 said:

All aircraft moved to higher wing loads, it was the future. Yanking and banking was a dying form of aerial combat, and the FW190 concept showed the way. People that think the XIV is hard to fly crack me up - it is pure child's play compared to flying a FW190 or a P-47 in this sim.

 

The future caught up with the Spitfire.

I don’t think it’s hard to fly, just that I’ve personally never flown a plane, either in real life, or the sim that kind of lags behind control input like that. It’s behavior I’d expect of much larger airplanes or even gliders. Someone mentioned that it’s like the 109s circa 2015 and I’d have to agree. It’s not a big deal, it’s just a little jarring. 
 

EDIT: for reference I distinctly remember the G109 motor glider I flew about 9 years ago feeling like it lagged in the roll. Please don’t eviscerate me soaring gods. 

Edited January 16, 2022 by AndytotheD

[357th_KW]

3 hours ago, Denum said:

It feels sloppy in game, input lag or something. I don't know how to describe it.

 

Alot of pilots said it wasn't really a Spitfire at its core. So there's that.

 

Playing with it today it honestly feels like its out of Cg.  As you start to pull in a turn it starts tightening up the turn on its own and you have to shove the stick forward to "catch" it before it just spins or you black out.

[Jaws2002]

I think it's superbly maneuverable. It has a lot of power, it's fast and you can pull more G's. You hit the physiological limits of the pilot, before you hit the limits of the plane.

 

I did a few QMB flights in it earlier today and i found it amazing.  Fast, powerful and temperamental, as expected for a plane of that class.

 

 I tried the K4 after that.. OMG, what a dog. 

[NanashiAnjin]

13 hours ago, Jaws2002 said:

I think it's superbly maneuverable. It has a lot of power, it's fast and you can pull more G's. You hit the physiological limits of the pilot, before you hit the limits of the plane.

 

I did a few QMB flights in it earlier today and i found it amazing.  Fast, powerful and temperamental, as expected for a plane of that class.

 

 I tried the K4 after that.. OMG, what a dog. 

 

I have a really hard time to maneuver it, whenever I try to pull, I quickly lose all balance.

[Gingerwelsh]

I love it.

 

 

 

I find it more difficult than the Tempest/Typhoon, but it's a high alt fighter and it can deal with the D9 quite well.

Elevator is sensitive, so black outs and spins need to be avoided with appropriate BFM.

 

Speeds at S/L, 12000', and 26000' are spot on with real data. (15C/760mm/18lb).

 

For drama free T/O at standard weight, use full left rudder trim and 7lb boost, (12lb with a bomb on). (From the manual)

 

 

 

..

Edited January 19, 2022 by Gingerwelsh

[HR_Zunzun]

18 hours ago, VBF-12_KW said:

 

Playing with it today it honestly feels like its out of Cg.  As you start to pull in a turn it starts tightening up the turn on its own and you have to shove the stick forward to "catch" it before it just spins or you black out.

That is my experience with it. It is like when you try flying the Mustang with a full rear fuel tank. It tighten up into the turns.

It is not a feeling of being heavy or having excesive torque (in any case torque is bening in this sim) but CG rearward.

Edited January 16, 2022 by HR_Zunzun

[percydanvers]

On 1/14/2022 at 1:51 PM, I./JG52_Woutwocampe said:

Who here totally failed their first takeoff in the XIV after forgetting the propeller was spinning counter clockwise? I sure did. Big time. It was magnificient.

Sadly this happened to a great many experienced RAF pilots IRL.

[von_Tom]

On 1/16/2022 at 3:09 AM, VBF-12_KW said:

 

Playing with it today it honestly feels like its out of Cg.  As you start to pull in a turn it starts tightening up the turn on its own and you have to shove the stick forward to "catch" it before it just spins or you black out.

 

This was a real-life Spitfire trait.

 

von Tom

[Hitcher]

The spitfire mk XIV feels like its flying through soup.

 

Loses all controllability at close to stall speeds.

Wants to fall out of the sky in maneuvers.

Rudder wobbles like crazy at low speed.

If this is how a high performance aircraft should fly so be it.

But then what about almost every other aircraft in the game?

 

It's seems to me from the last few releases that the devs are going in a different direction with their FMs but older aircraft arnt being brought to the same standard.

[von_Tom]

[

Spit XIV is a new aircraft, for Normandy.

 

Expecting a Griffon Spit to fly like a Merlin Spit just won't work.  The XIV was a very different beast.  Fly it at the speeds it's supposed to be flown at and it is amazing.

 

As it was, all Spits were VERY sensitive in pitch.

 

Whether the FM is correct or not I don't know, but I do think that people's expectations amount to Spit I handling combined with K4 performance. 

 

Edit:  Spit IX performance handling notes.  Worth people checking if they have full fuel when flying it, especially full fuel in the rear tank.

 

Spitfire LF Mk. IX ML.186, Handling with rear fuselage tank and metal elevators. (spitfireperformance.com)

 

von Tom

Edited January 18, 2022 by von_Tom

[357th_KW]

Our Spit IX is listed as having the same 85 gallon total capacity as the Spit V - I don't think it's equipped with a rear fuselage tank.