VR world scaling ... a cheat?

[shirazjohn]

I've gone up to 10% but still not sure if this is enough, its a shame there isn't a more scientific way of working this value out. But have to say its a big improvement it feels more realistic now and helps a bit spotting ground target's. 

 

[SCG_motoadve]

37 minutes ago, shirazjohn said:

I've gone up to 10% but still not sure if this is enough, its a shame there isn't a more scientific way of working this value out. But have to say its a big improvement it feels more realistic now and helps a bit spotting ground target's. 

 

It is kind of a calculated guess, I fly a military trainer IRL, and the fuel gauge, rpms and other gauges  are the same as the Migs, Yaks in game.

I was always between -3% and -6% in the in game IPD, one felt too small, the other too big.

So for me I used 124% to increase the size a bit in -3% IPD and I am pretty happy with the result.

[[CPT]Crunch]

I use my arms as if they could rest on the Mustangs canopy sills when its open, like some of the historical photos.  Some of these planes my shoulders were in the canopy frames before.

[firdimigdi]

2 hours ago, shirazjohn said:

its a shame there isn't a more scientific way of working this value out

 

Ya, if only there was a banana for scale in-game.

[shirazjohn]

2 hours ago, 335th_grFirdimigdi said:

Ya, if only there was a banana for scale in-game.

Great idea i can then reach with invisible hand and grab my virtual banana "perfect". Only problem what size is the banana. ?

[firdimigdi]

10 hours ago, shirazjohn said:

Great idea i can then reach with invisible hand and grab my virtual banana "perfect". Only problem what size is the banana. ?

[56RAF_Roblex]

I played with the settings and I really cannot see any increase in spotting ability even at the largest setting.   Everything close enough to have a vague aircraft shape is just as blurred, just a bigger blur and everything far enough away to be a dot is still a dot.  Perhaps the dot is bigger but I cannot say it is any easier to see.   On that basis I would say it is not a cheat.   

I did set mine to 110 because it makes a big difference to the perceived reality.  I have experience of flying with a joystick and now it really feels like the joystick is just in easy reach and the pedals at the right distance.  I had not not realised it was wrong before or I just accepted it as inevitable.

Edited January 19, 2022 by 56RAF_Roblex

[Varibraun]

On 1/18/2022 at 11:57 AM, SCG_motoadve said:

It is kind of a calculated guess, I fly a military trainer IRL, and the fuel gauge, rpms and other gauges  are the same as the Migs, Yaks in game.

I was always between -3% and -6% in the in game IPD, one felt too small, the other too big.

So for me I used 124% to increase the size a bit in -3% IPD and I am pretty happy with the result.

 

If I had the Vive Pro 2, I would start with your exact settings since you probably have the best IRL perspective of the WWII cockpit compared to VR.  You don't still have a g2 laying around to test for us do you? 

[CSW_Tommy544]

Is there any conclusion on whether the in-game IPD adjustment and the SteamVR world scale are doing the same thing - basically moving the per eye cameras/view ports further from or closer to each other?

 

I am using a Rift S and both methods look the same to me, but I have no measurements or any other proof to be sure. To me it seems like both of these methods are effective at changing the perceived scale of the cockpit, or in general, things that are close to you. However, things that are further away from your head, like the wings of your airplane or how you perceive the altitude you are flying at, don't change at all. To me and to other people that I fly with that are also using VR it seems like these distances appear to be too short. The wings should look longer and when looking at the ground from higher altitude, it just doesn't feel like you are really that high up.

 

I guess when I see a slider labeled "world scale", I would expect more than just the cockpit size to change.

[SCG_motoadve]

10 minutes ago, CSW_Tommy544 said:

Is there any conclusion on whether the in-game IPD adjustment and the SteamVR world scale are doing the same thing - basically moving the per eye cameras/view ports further from or closer to each other?

 

I am using a Rift S and both methods look the same to me, but I have no measurements or any other proof to be sure. To me it seems like both of these methods are effective at changing the perceived scale of the cockpit, or in general, things that are close to you. However, things that are further away from your head, like the wings of your airplane or how you perceive the altitude you are flying at, don't change at all. To me and to other people that I fly with that are also using VR it seems like these distances appear to be too short. The wings should look longer and when looking at the ground from higher altitude, it just doesn't feel like you are really that high up.

 

I guess when I see a slider labeled "world scale", I would expect more than just the cockpit size to change.

I have sat in real P51s and compared to game, the wings in game look a lot shorter.

I solved it the best way I could.

I have used both, and the VR allows you to fine tune to your liking, I put small in game IPD -3% and then 124% in Steam VR, looks good to me and because of this now the wings look closer to the proper size finally.

[CSW_Tommy544]

2 hours ago, SCG_motoadve said:

I have sat in real P51s and compared to game, the wings in game look a lot shorter.

I solved it the best way I could.

I have used both, and the VR allows you to fine tune to your liking, I put small in game IPD -3% and then 124% in Steam VR, looks good to me and because of this now the wings look closer to the proper size finally.

 

But were you able to notice any difference between using only the in-game IPD adjustment and the SteamVR world scale? Or did you just combine them to get a more granular control as you described a couple replies up? Because to me changing these settings has a very small, if any, effect on anything outside the cockpit.

[[CPT]Crunch]

With a G-2 in WMR the in game IPD changes the horizontal alignment of your lenses, acts as a distortion correction, the game can't correct for every individual headset I guess.  Wish they'd add a vertical component to it for us, there's a slight distortion there also on mine.

 

Best way to know the scale is changing is the shimmer, the larger you go the less it appears on things like buildings, close up any way, even though they keep the same proportion in size relationship.  Whizzing down a road with those damn trees on either side of you and they start feeling like Redwoods is also a pretty good indication something has changed.  Feels like you can safely fly much lower and the trees are suddenly huge.

[SCG_motoadve]

3 hours ago, CSW_Tommy544 said:

 

But were you able to notice any difference between using only the in-game IPD adjustment and the SteamVR world scale? Or did you just combine them to get a more granular control as you described a couple replies up? Because to me changing these settings has a very small, if any, effect on anything outside the cockpit.

Yes wings seems larger , which needed to be, without making everything else too big.

[kestrel79]

Wow changing to 120% feels pretty good to me. This is great! 
 

I did what others did and watched some Kermie cam footage on YouTube to get an idea on the controls, dials, and levers compared to his hand and 120% feels right. 

[cellinsky]

Shame that we have to relay on estimations. I had the opportunity to sit in a ME109E pit once and my shoulders barely had 1 cm space left on both sides. Judging by this, 108% seems about right for me. I have a IPD of 65 and a Pimax headset.

Edited January 28, 2022 by cellinsky

[von_Tom]

 

Anyone else with an Index played with this?  Any thoughts on 100% or more?

 

Thanks

 

von Tom

[LukeFF]

I have a couple of the same WWII instruments that were used in P-51s, P-47s, and P-38s, among others - an altimeter, repeater compass, artificial horizon, and an oxygen flow indicator. My plan when I receive my Varjo Aero headset is to measure the dimensions of the in-game instruments and compare them to the size of the ones sitting on my desk, and adjust accordingly from there.

[CSW_Tommy544]

11 hours ago, LukeFF said:

I have a couple of the same WWII instruments that were used in P-51s, P-47s, and P-38s, among others - an altimeter, repeater compass, artificial horizon, and an oxygen flow indicator. My plan when I receive my Varjo Aero headset is to measure the dimensions of the in-game instruments and compare them to the size of the ones sitting on my desk, and adjust accordingly from there.

 

Do you have any plan how to measure them in-game accurately?

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

I use 115% in il-2 and 120% in DCS. I think these settings are about right for the reverb g2.

[enyak]

Ok, this thread is now officially frustrating with everyone suggesting different world scales as the best ones.

 

First things first, can anybody offer up a theory on why the 100% world scale produces the wrong result in the first place? Why is that only in the Reverb G2? Is it?

[SCG_motoadve]

Every VR brand  is different , also you need to see what its the in game IPD, if mine is -3% with 120% in VR s scale, with a Vive Pro 2 , might be different on a G2

[LukeFF]

7 hours ago, CSW_Tommy544 said:

Do you have any plan how to measure them in-game accurately?

 

I have some ideas in mind but nothing concrete yet. It's really going to depend on how the Aero renders things, so all this might not be necessary.

[TAIPAN_]

Those who prefer a large 120-125% world scale - what is your IPD?

Those who like 108% what is your IPD?

I'm curious if there is a correlation between IPD and world scale preference, assuming the same headset/G2?

 

As someone with the max IPD on the G2, I found I only need to increase it slightly to 105%.

Only been flying the P-51B, but when I go much larger the cockpit feels way too roomy and I struggle to lean outside the pit when it's open

Edited February 4, 2022 by TAIPAN_

[JimmySolarium_VR]

I have mine set to 110% in Steam settings. I have an IPD of 68 so i set the slider in my G2 accordingly. Funny Thing is, anyone else noticed, that changing the World Scale in Steam VR, the entry in the startup.cfg is changed (in my case to : or_ipd = 0.05667 ), i have no idea, if that matters, just realized it.

[shirazjohn]

Sorry I might be blowing your theory I have an Ipd of 63 and 112% world scale.

[firdimigdi]

I too have 63mm IPD and world scale set to 110%.

 

However, I've also had to always use the in-game IPD adjustment even since I got the G2 set to -0.15 otherwise there's a sensation of eyestress. Recently, using the FSR mod's debug mode red circle trick I corroborated that indeed I need the above correction or I see two overlapping red circles instead of one. No idea if this is some defect in my G2, the game rendering or just something with my eyes in relation with the other two (I'm inclined to believe it's (2) as I don't feel this in any other game in VR). The -.15, apart from relieving my eyes, also seems to add a tad to the perceived world scale so maybe if I didn't have to use it I'd need to have set it to 112 or 115% or so.

 

Edited February 4, 2022 by Firdimigdi

[TAIPAN_]

Did some flights in the FW 190 Dora today, and unlike the Mustang the world scale I chose of 105-108% no longer feels big enough.

 

Yes it's true that some cockpits are more cramped than others in real life, but I'm wondering if anyone finds different preference for scale in different airplanes?

 

The Stuka and the Mustang feel very roomy (and the Stuka for some reason has a default view very sunken down and far back, can't even see the sight).

The 190 Dora in particular some of the gauges (like water temp) are very tiny and hard to read.

I guess it takes some experimentation to find the right value I'll keep adjusting as I need.

[dburne]

1 hour ago, TAIPAN_ said:

Did some flights in the FW 190 Dora today, and unlike the Mustang the world scale I chose of 105-108% no longer feels big enough.

 

Yes it's true that some cockpits are more cramped than others in real life, but I'm wondering if anyone finds different preference for scale in different airplanes?

 

The Stuka and the Mustang feel very roomy (and the Stuka for some reason has a default view very sunken down and far back, can't even see the sight).

The 190 Dora in particular some of the gauges (like water temp) are very tiny and hard to read.

I guess it takes some experimentation to find the right value I'll keep adjusting as I need.

 

Have you tried using the in game IPD adjustment for the scale of the plane? That is specific per plane I believe.

[TAIPAN_]

4 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

Have you tried using the in game IPD adjustment for the scale of the plane? That is specific per plane I believe.

Cool thanks I didn't know it was per plane, I'll have to give it a try.

[paul_leonard]

I'm confused.  I clearly have a small head.  My intra-pupilar distance (IPD) is like 56mm.  I have a G2 which has a slider that goes down to 60mm.  My understanding is that the slider moves the fresnel lenses so that the lenses are centred over each eye.  Meaning that for me there is no real sweet spot, more like a Venn diagram or when you move the binoculars apart too far.  I have a lens implant in one eye, near sightedness in the other eye and astigmatism.  So I am used to moving my head around to focus on things. I did do not think that the IPD in your VR gear affects world scale.  I had thought that the IPD in game settings is a misnomer and does refer to world scale.  Am I wrong?  Am I wrong.  (gratuitous Ted Lasso reference).

Edited February 5, 2022 by paul_leonard

[firdimigdi]

7 hours ago, dburne said:

 

Have you tried using the in game IPD adjustment for the scale of the plane? That is specific per plane I believe.

 

It's global.

5 hours ago, paul_leonard said:

I did do not think that the IPD in your VR gear affects world scale.  I had thought that the IPD in game settings is a misnomer and does refer to world scale.  Am I wrong? 

 

You are not wrong, the in-game setting's Virtual IPD or Inter-Camera Distance (ICD).

[dburne]

9 hours ago, paul_leonard said:

I'm confused.  I clearly have a small head.  My intra-pupilar distance (IPD) is like 56mm.  I have a G2 which has a slider that goes down to 60mm.  My understanding is that the slider moves the fresnel lenses so that the lenses are centred over each eye.  Meaning that for me there is no real sweet spot, more like a Venn diagram or when you move the binoculars apart too far.  I have a lens implant in one eye, near sightedness in the other eye and astigmatism.  So I am used to moving my head around to focus on things. I did do not think that the IPD in your VR gear affects world scale.  I had thought that the IPD in game settings is a misnomer and does refer to world scale.  Am I wrong?  Am I wrong.  (gratuitous Ted Lasso reference).

 

No you are correct.

[blitze]

Have IPD of 66.4 measured but I run it at 68.4 for distance.

 

Was banging around in the Spit IXe at SteamVR World Scale 120% and it seemed much better.  Tried it out with my 109 e7 Moscow career too and both planes still have that cramped feel but the seat looks more accommodating and controls more suited to a heavily gloved mit.  The front glass still not huge and the rails / open cockpit feel more correct.

 

Makes targeting ground objects easier and trucks and armor don't seem tiny now.  I wonder if the original world scale was to allow for more FOV in narrower headsets.  I'm running my 8K-X at Large FOV on Low graphics settings with FSR  (which helps a lot).

 

Ingame IPD adjustment does alter world scale but also it introduced concave / convex image distortion when using it so I left it alone (maybe an issue with canted displays - not sure).

[shirazjohn]

I'm really confused about about the ingame IPD settings for some in changes the world scale others are using it to adjust there ipd settings for me it gives me a cross eyed feeling but changes nothing.

 

This is from the new manual that Jason has produced recently: 

 

Left Shift + Numpad Add    +IPD correction for fixed IPD HMDS (directly shifts the VR image)

Left Shift + Numpad Enter    -IPD correction for fixed IPD HMDS (directly shifts the VR image) 

Edited February 5, 2022 by shirazjohn

[dburne]

I assigned those commands to buttons on my throttle, and can easily see it making my cockpit larger/smaller with each press. At least on my end that is what it appears to do for me.

[[CPT]Crunch]

If your using a G-2, turn on the debugMode and set the radius to a small value, than use the in game IPD keys to adjust your headset so the two visible circles overlap perfectly in the horizontal, that's the value that will least strain your eyes and correct any headset distortion.  Once you do that, you'll never have to readjust, you can unbind the keys forever.

[C6_lefuneste]

On 2/5/2022 at 1:40 PM, shirazjohn said:

I'm really confused about about the ingame IPD settings for some in changes the world scale others are using it to adjust there ipd settings for me it gives me a cross eyed feeling but changes nothing.

 

This is from the new manual that Jason has produced recently: 

 

Left Shift + Numpad Add    +IPD correction for fixed IPD HMDS (directly shifts the VR image)

Left Shift + Numpad Enter    -IPD correction for fixed IPD HMDS (directly shifts the VR image) 

In theory, changing IPD means you are changing the horizontal distance between each eye. In practice it was done in the past by shifting  in or out whole left/right images, that created some eyestrain for distant objects. That's why I did an "IPD" feature in a former version of my mod...

But the last version of Il2 are no more creating eyestrain for me, so they may have improve the feature...

Anyway, playing with distance between eye dhould have a sensible effect for near objects only (just draw angles seen from bottom), that's why it should change only your feeling of cockpit size and also, in a less dimension, plane parts you can see...

The strange things is some people are not seeing any change in cockpit size when playing with in game IPD, at the same time the effect is obvious for others (like me)...

[Drum]

Good point, C6_Lefuneste.  I'm one who has tried this and can not see any changes, zero even though I see the numbers displayed that it's changing.

[TAIPAN_]

2 hours ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

If your using a G-2, turn on the debugMode and set the radius to a small value, than use the in game IPD keys to adjust your headset so the two visible circles overlap perfectly in the horizontal, that's the value that will least strain your eyes and correct any headset distortion.  Once you do that, you'll never have to readjust, you can unbind the keys forever.

Would this method work to help you find your hardware adjustment for IPD as well?

 

I had trouble measuring my IPD using the mirror/ruler method, and I don't have glasses so haven't had an optician measurement. I have a general idea but would be cool to get exact.

 

Also where do we turn on the debugMode? I didn't see anything in WMR

[Youtch]

On 1/27/2022 at 7:35 PM, [CPT]Crunch said:

Wish they'd add a vertical component to it for us, there's a slight distortion there also on mine.

Fully agree, in my case vertical misalignment is almost as big as default horizontal misalignment. I don t know if it is my head/eyes shape or the G2 model, but it is significant.

 

I use as well the trick with FSR small radius to align the circles with in-game IPD, curiously it seems quite independent regardless of hardware G2 IPD slider setting.

I would assume that one position of the G2 IPD slider would bring the circles fully aligned, but it is not the case (at least for me) and I always need some in-game IPD correction. I don t know if it is normal or not.

 

I set world scale to 115% and it feels good indeed, I have no reference to judge which is more accurate between 108% and 115% for G2. I guess the veterans will have more criteria and reference instruments to enlight us with which settings match best the real world size for G2.

 

Thank you again for this very interesting thread.