VR world scaling ... a cheat?

[AcidBath]

An HP Reverb G2 owner here.  I recently came across a graphics setting in SteamVR where you can scale the world's size for a game title, as in make everything but you bigger or smaller.  I've found that using a scale of 108% really make a huge difference for me, making all the aircraft I've tried feel more life-like when in its cockpit.  Also it seems that since everything is a bit bigger, my gunnery and dive bombing accuracy seems (feels?) that it's improved.  Anyone else ever used this world scaling?  Opinions? Anyone consider that doing so is a cheat?  Thanks for reading.

Edited January 14, 2022 by AcidBath

[firdimigdi]

Why would it be a cheat?

 

I too use a slightly increased world scale because it was simply too small by default, the spade grip sticks in british or soviet planes looked like they couldn't even accommodate 3 of my fingers let alone be grabbed fully.

[=LD=Nephrill]

My max. setting is 100%. Am I missing something?

[ACG_Ginger]

I have mine set to 120% it a game changer.

 

Edited January 14, 2022 by ACG_Ginger

[AcidBath]

7 hours ago, 335th_grFirdimigdi said:

Why would it be a cheat?

 

I too use a slightly increased world scale because it was simply too small by default, the spade grip sticks in british or soviet planes looked like they couldn't even accommodate 3 of my fingers let alone be grabbed fully.

 

Cheat?  Thinking of those who complain about non-default setting use, especially something that like this which effectively magnifies your targeting without the side effect of zooming into (i.e. shrinking) your control axes range.

 

You hit the nail on the head for why I find the scaling most enhancing.  At times my VR experience was like being in a model plane.  Now AC feel substantial; the P47 takes on the heft it should have.  Dang, I remember being floored by its RL size when seeing one at an aeronautics museum.

Edited January 14, 2022 by AcidBath

[[CPT]Crunch]

I wonder if some aren't playing with their sets in 'optimize for performance' mode in WMR, that makes mine feel like a miniature model too, just something off and weird in that setting.  May have to play around with the two combos, because things do look sharper and more colorful in that mode.  Maybe with scaling will fix the crosseyed effect and make it playable.

[SCG_motoadve]

You can adjust IPD in game, how does this setting is different from IPD adjustment in game, where you can make the cockpit larger or smaller?

[kestrel79]

Cool I'll have to check this out. I've always thought things just seem a tad small when in VR. I know those cockpits are small and cramp, but the throttle levers seem a tad too small. I'll try messing with this and see if it helps.

[dburne]

1 hour ago, AcidBath said:

 

Cheat?  Thinking of those who complain about non-default setting use, especially something that like this which effectively magnifies your targeting without the side effect of zooming into (i.e. shrinking) your control axes range.

 

You hit the nail on the head for why I find the scaling most enhancing.  At times my VR experience was like being in a model plane.  Now AC feel substantial; the P47 takes on the heft it should have.  Dang, I remember being floored by its RL size when seeing one at an aeronautics museum.

 

Did you not try the in-game IPD adjustment to adjust the scale of the plane? That is what I use to get them to where it feels about right. I have them bound to a couple of buttons on my HOTAS so can adjust on the fly.

Edited January 14, 2022 by dburne

[ACG_Ginger]

IPD is for focus , not scale.

[BP_Lizard]

41 minutes ago, SCG_motoadve said:

You can adjust IPD in game, how does this setting is different from IPD adjustment in game, where you can make the cockpit larger or smaller?

How do I that, please? Thanks.

[dburne]

8 minutes ago, ACG_Ginger said:

IPD is for focus , not scale.

 

The in game IPD adjustment will adjust the scale of the plane from within the cockpit.

[ACG_Ginger]

Em doesn't for me? just gives more focus!

 

[dburne]

Just now, ACG_Ginger said:

Em doesn't for me? just gives more focus!

 

 

Well I don't know why then cause it certainly does for me. I can see it get larger/smaller easily when making the adjustments whilst in cockpit.

[ACG_Ginger]

We are talking about the same thing? 

[dburne]

I am talking about what 1CGS refers in their GUI as IPD adjustment. 

To me it is not the same as what we would think of as an IPD adjust like what one can do on certain headsets themselves. To me it adjusts the scale of the cockpit.

Easy to see - bind to a couple of buttons and then play with them whilst in cockpit.

[ACG_Ginger]

Fair enough , wonder why they didn't call it up scaling ?

[firdimigdi]

1 hour ago, SCG_motoadve said:

You can adjust IPD in game, how does this setting is different from IPD adjustment in game, where you can make the cockpit larger or smaller?

Well it's got finer grained control over the scaling than the ingame IPD setting does. Also, somehow it feels less weird, if that makes sense - changing IPD ingame gives a feeling of eyestrain if it's not correct, this doesn't. You can go from the full range of making it appear like a miniature airplane all the way to living in the land of giant aviation and it doesn't make you feel like you're going cross-eyed.

[AcidBath]

Seem odd to me that the in-game IPD stereo images shift would appear as up/down scaling the image.  My gut reaction is that maybe it's appearing to do that, but it seems to me its intention is not to do that.  If anything, using the "wrong" IPD messes up the stereo projection that VR affords.  When using the correct IPD, everything in the VR world "pops" into crisp 3D realistic images (or at least it does for me).

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

17 hours ago, AcidBath said:

An HP Reverb G2 owner here.  I recently came across a graphics setting in SteamVR where you can scale the world's size for a game title, as in make everything but you bigger or smaller.  I've found that using a scale of 108% really make a huge difference for me, making all the aircraft I've tried feel more life-like when in its cockpit.  Also it seems that since everything is a bit bigger, my gunnery and dive bombing accuracy seems (feels?) that it's improved.  Anyone else ever used this world scaling?  Opinions? Anyone consider that doing so is a cheat?  Thanks for reading.

It's not a cheat.

 

IL-2 portrays itself at wrong size in a few headsets. A famous one affected is the G2.

 

It is true that gunnery and dive bombing accuracy are indeed improving if size gets increased to real world size. I may add though that if the world gets too large, it affects gunnery negatively.

[kissTheSky]

2 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

IL-2 portrays itself at wrong size in a few headsets. A famous one affected is the G2.

Shame on me, I didn’t know that! 
 

What world scale is a good approximation of the real scale?

 

Also, is it just the cockpit or the whole IL-2 “world”?

[[CPT]Crunch]

Makes me wonder, when I select experience option, optimize for performance, I get a lopsided cockpit and severe distortion, the canopy sill on the mustang is 3 to 4 inches higher on the left side and the frame is warped and bent, hard to notice if your not looking for it.  My scale only goes to 100% in either rendering mode, when it gets reduced the image starts splitting, at 50% looking at a train head on on the tracks there's two trains approaching from either side about 25 degrees off angle.  I get nothing but eyestrain from the split, couldn't possible tolerate anything beyond a 5 degree adjustment.  And than have to try adjusting the in game IPD misalignment to try and correct.  No thanks.   Pretty much a useless feature here.

 

Wondering what settings are allowing the scale to go to 108%?  Also the override world scale, off, fine, normal, extreme doesn't seem to do anything at all, even with restarting steam.

[paul_leonard]

Okay.... so I change the Override World Scale setting to Normal but I don't get the slider.  This is standard (non-beta of SteamVR but I've tried both).  It doesn't seem to want to save setting and like I say... no slider.  help please and thank you.

 

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

1 hour ago, kissTheSky said:

Shame on me, I didn’t know that! 
 

What world scale is a good approximation of the real scale?

 

Also, is it just the cockpit or the whole IL-2 “world”?

Everything.

 

You need to look at an item you know the size of. For example the joystick, and look at a similar joystick at a similar distance in front of you. Then you go ingame, look at that item. Then take off the headset and look at it in reality. Compare, dial in. After a while you'll have it dialed in and feel more confident about it. Also, if the headset supports it with enough stereo overlap, you may start feeling presence.  For presence, a multitude of factors is important, but the most important ones are:
No distortion, good stereo overlap, steady 90Hz or better 120Hz, no fps fluctuation.

[RAAF492SQNOz_Steve]

Just now, paul_leonard said:

Okay.... so I change the Override World Scale setting to Normal but I don't get the slider.  This is standard (non-beta of SteamVR but I've tried both).  It doesn't seem to want to save setting and like I say... no slider.  help please and thank you.

 

Hi Paul, why is your Custom Resolution Multiplier showing at 3236 x 3164 at 70% ?    Seems to be very high for a 70% figure.

 

[AcidBath]

Solid guess here: perhaps "Nvidia Experience" is causing issues for some?  I don't have that installed, nor have I ever.

 

As for the scale amount I use:  I look at the grip of the joystick and the seat.  If that grip fits my hands well and the seat size seems right...well, I guess that's the right scale.  As mentioned with my G2 I'm using 108%, but as always with flight sims YMMV.

[shirazjohn]

10 hours ago, paul_leonard said:

Okay.... so I change the Override World Scale setting to Normal but I don't get the slider.  This is standard (non-beta of SteamVR but I've tried both).  It doesn't seem to want to save setting and like I say... no slider.  help please and thank you.

 

Hi Paul the slider is at the bottom of the page, you need to scroll down the vertical scroll bar.

[firdimigdi]

11 hours ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

Also the override world scale, off, fine, normal, extreme doesn't seem to do anything at all, even with restarting steam.

Normal, fine and extreme only control the granularity of the slider's steps. Fine is for something like .1 increment/decrement and normal deals in 1% or something like that (away from computer and can't check now).

 

Also, you gotta scroll down to see it, you are looking at the FOV slider which only goes to 100%.

Edited January 15, 2022 by 335th_grFirdimigdi

[J2_Nedo]

Its not a cheat.

The view (what you are seeing in front of you) dont change you always see the same

its just the feel of the scale of things in your virtual world.

With my Valve Index scale set to 100% everything looks at natural size around me.
Exaggerated changing it over 100 or below you can get a feeling to be a mouse inside a cockpit

or you are sitting in a little model plane.

 

Edited January 15, 2022 by J2_Nedo

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

On 1/14/2022 at 11:20 PM, [CPT]Crunch said:

Makes me wonder, when I select experience option, optimize for performance, I get a lopsided cockpit and severe distortion, the canopy sill on the mustang is 3 to 4 inches higher on the left side and the frame is warped and bent, hard to notice if your not looking for it.  My scale only goes to 100% in either rendering mode, when it gets reduced the image starts splitting, at 50% looking at a train head on on the tracks there's two trains approaching from either side about 25 degrees off angle.  I get nothing but eyestrain from the split, couldn't possible tolerate anything beyond a 5 degree adjustment.  And than have to try adjusting the in game IPD misalignment to try and correct.  No thanks.   Pretty much a useless feature here.

 

Wondering what settings are allowing the scale to go to 108%?  Also the override world scale, off, fine, normal, extreme doesn't seem to do anything at all, even with restarting steam.

Do you change while the game is active? Crazy?? Just kidding. Please only change any things around while IL-2 is turnt off completely. Makes sure to restart SteamVR too. IL-2 could get affected negatively for VR (showing cross eyes) if you change that around while the game runs, depending on headset.  also please make sure you keep in-game ipd at 0 at all times and use the SteamVR slider.

13 hours ago, J2_Nedo said:

Its not a cheat.

The view (what you are seeing in front of you) dont change you always see the same

its just the feel of the scale of things in your virtual world.

With my Valve Index scale set to 100% everything looks at natural size around me.
Exaggerated changing it over 100 or below you can get a feeling to be a mouse inside a cockpit

or you are sitting in a little model plane.

 

Yes it depends on how well IL-2 Devs have adjusted their game to a given headset. Usually they're doing a pretty good job, and any leftovers like in this case can be individually fixed afterwards. The 108% world scale for the G2 is the correct way.

Edited January 16, 2022 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[firdimigdi]

6 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Do you change while the game is active? Crazy?? Just kidding. Please only change any things around while IL-2 is turnt off completely. Makes sure to restart SteamVR too

He's messing with the wrong slider too, the FOV change can cause what he is describing if you don't restart the game. Ironically the world scale slider is ok to change on the fly in IL2, as long as you aren't wearing the HMD because there's a slight delay in applying the setting.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Ah okay. Yeah then it's no use. Happens more often than one might suspect. All helpless issues and performance pitfalls I've encountered so far were by false settings and a total lack of understanding how what works.

All in all, it's not very user friendly, one might add though. An most of humanity does not think algorithmic either, but by association.

[Varibraun]

On 1/13/2022 at 10:47 PM, AcidBath said:

I've found that using a scale of 108% really make a huge difference for me, making all the aircraft I've tried feel more life-like when in its cockpit.

 

18 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

You need to look at an item you know the size of. For example the joystick, and look at a similar joystick at a similar distance in front of you. Then you go ingame, look at that item. Then take off the headset and look at it in reality. Compare, dial in. After a while you'll have it dialed in and feel more confident about it.

 

19 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

IL-2 portrays itself at wrong size in a few headsets. A famous one affected is the G2.

 

On 1/14/2022 at 5:29 AM, 335th_grFirdimigdi said:

I too use a slightly increased world scale because it was simply too small by default, the spade grip sticks in british or soviet planes looked like they couldn't even accommodate 3 of my fingers let alone be grabbed fully.

 

Wow...somehow I missed all of this too and turns out I have been flying scaled down aircraft for a long time now in the G2.  Went up to the 108% setting and will experiment with what looks correct, so thank you all for the explanation and screenshots!! 

Edited January 15, 2022 by Varibraun

[shirazjohn]

19 minutes ago, Varibraun said:

Wow...somehow I missed all of this too and turns out I have been flying scaled down aircraft for a long time now in the G2.  Went up to the 108% setting and will experiment with what looks correct, so thank you all for the explanation and screenshots!! 

Same here with g2 just tried at 108% in the mk14 spit and it just feels much better.?

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

I'll rebuild the settings thread with copy/paste values I had in the past within the next two weeks. It'll include NIS/FSR by F. Holger as well.

Edited January 16, 2022 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[TheSNAFU]

I had wondered what the World Scale setting was in Steamvr but honestly with all the research I’ve done to learn how to set up vr I never once recall seeing anyone talking about this. I have the g2 and really never gave the scale any thought although once I saw this thread I went into the game and realized that things did look smaller in comparison to me. I increased the Steamvr World Scale using the P51 throttle, stick and seat as reference points. I settled on 125% as the best representation of the scale based on the reference points I mentioned. Now it looks like my hand would fit perfectly on the throttle and stick. When I look down, the seat is nicely aligned with me. The width of the nose and cockpit looks noticeably larger, as it should sitting in a p51 fighter plane.  Seems like the gauges and the cockpit generally are even more crisp and clear.
 

Hard to believe I haven’t seen this before but I’m glad this thread came up. I wouldn’t say it’s a game changer but it greatly enhances the feeling of being in the cockpit. 

[SCG_motoadve]

10 minutes ago, TheSNAFU said:

I had wondered what the World Scale setting was in Steamvr but honestly with all the research I’ve done to learn how to set up vr I never once recall seeing anyone talking about this. I have the g2 and really never gave the scale any thought although once I saw this thread I went into the game and realized that things did look smaller in comparison to me. I increased the Steamvr World Scale using the P51 throttle, stick and seat as reference points. I settled on 125% as the best representation of the scale based on the reference points I mentioned. Now it looks like my hand would fit perfectly on the throttle and stick. When I look down, the seat is nicely aligned with me. The width of the nose and cockpit looks noticeably larger, as it should sitting in a p51 fighter plane.  Seems like the gauges and the cockpit generally are even more crisp and clear.
 

Hard to believe I haven’t seen this before but I’m glad this thread came up. I wouldn’t say it’s a game changer but it greatly enhances the feeling of being in the cockpit. 

In game IPD adjustment has been there for a while and does the same.

[TheSNAFU]

Yeah I learned that too. The game setting isn’t well named and is a bit misleading but a description of what it does was probably stated by the devs and I just didn’t see it. Steamvr’s setting did the trick just fine. 

Edited January 16, 2022 by TheSNAFU

[shirazjohn]

24 minutes ago, SCG_motoadve said:

In game IPD adjustment has been there for a while and does the same.

For me it doesn't really do anything, it makes me feel slightly cross eyed but doesn't look any different. Whereas the world scaling feature definitely changes the look of things even the outside world looks a more correct perspective. 

[Varibraun]

Just reporting back in that I think I am settled at 120% for my g2.  Watched a lot of in cockpit videos of the P-51D/B (Kermit Weeks - "Kermie Cam" is great for this), the Spitfire and the 109, where pilots have their hands on different controls to try an get some additional perspective.  I am sure there is an IPD element to this so we may all end up in different spots. 

 

Speaking of which:

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:09 PM, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

I'll rebuild the settings thread with copy/paste values I had in the past within the next two weeks. It'll include NIS/FSR by F. Holger as well.

 

Can't thank you enough for taking the time to do that Fenris.  I know it is such a pain in the a** for you after all the time spent on the first one to see it fall victim to someone's good intentions gone astray.