Lil confused on Ammo performance..

[Spinnetti]

Other than everything getting nerfed in the last update, I read the specs of the German ammo, and it seems that the sub-caliber ammo should have the best penetrating power at the ranges I engage from, however in practice, only APHE does anything, with the sub caliber ammo generally doing nothing at all near as I can tell. What's the deeal?

[Hoots]

Starting off with that sentence really points to a genuine approach. 

[Yogiflight]

6 hours ago, Spinnetti said:

with the sub caliber ammo generally doing nothing at all near as I can tell.

It is more or less a bolt penetrating the armor. No explosion or incendiary. It is the bolt, may be broken apart, and splinters of the inner armor, flying around in the compartment, until they hit something soft. So you need a good hit, for example the gunners position, or several hits, to take a tank out of action. So APHE is always to prefer, only if you can't penetrate the armor with APHE, then use AP.

The bolt is also very hot after penetrating, so it could inflame ammo or hydraulics, oil or fuel, but i don't know if that is modelled in game.

[moustache]

since beta, I have never had the impression that AP shells were of great interest, their use seems hazardous ... and since nobody knows how the shell behaves once it has penetrated (in the game model ...), difficult to explain ... I haven't seen any change since the last update

[No_Face]

I have the same feeling, AP shells, in the game, are very generally useless.

I still found it interesting.
A T34-76stz (the free one) can destroy a tiger tank at 500m, by shooting it in the back with an APCR shell

Edited January 9, 2022 by No_Face

[Mm1ut1]

I have been using aphe shells all the time. No wonder I haven’t gotten any kills….

[Spinnetti]

What I was saying is, APHE are the only ones that seem to work, but by ballistic specs, it would appear that sub cal ammo has the superior stopping power (to clairify, penetration power, and then the tungsten core would slam around and kill the crew, not necessarily the tank), but they don't seem to do anything compared to APHE. So that's different than your experience?

Edited January 28, 2022 by Spinnetti

[SCG_judgedeath3]

In my experience the APHE on german tanks is the standard ammo type to use in the panzer IV, but against kv-1 where it often fail to penetrate I use APCR which against lower hull at 500ish meters it could pen, with third shot I amde one blow up, the other bailed as I killed the driver. APCR is only good at close ranges and it has no explosive charges so you need to hit important parts or crew members to do serious damage. APHE will most times when it penetrate kill enemy tanks with one shot.
I havent used HEAT ammo much so I cant speak about them yet.

[Yogiflight]

1 hour ago, Spinnetti said:

it would appear that sub cal ammo has the superior stopping power,

Better penetration power, not stopping power, as I explained above.

 

1 hour ago, SCG_judgedeath3 said:

I havent used HEAT ammo much so I cant speak about them yet.

I used it once in QMB and have to say it was quite impressive. But hitting at longer distance is much more difficult than with APHE.

[No_Face]

21 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

I used it once in QMB and have to say it was quite impressive. But hitting at longer distance is much more difficult than with APHE.

Really? I want to know everything. How far did you use it? Against which target? Where did you aim? ?
 

I know that on my side I wanted to try it in multiplayer. As a result I died against a Sherman that I would have killed with the usual APHE, so I have a bad memory of it.

 

I had also done some shooting tests and I find this ammunition relatively inefficient and unreliable so I consider that an ammunition I can't count on is a bad ammunition. (However, the technical data seems to say that it is an effective ammunition).

 

I accept that it may be only me who uses it badly or in bad situations, so I am willing to get information from those who seem to be satisfied with it.

 

1 hour ago, SCG_judgedeath3 said:

 APCR is only good at close ranges

I never really understood why. On a Pz.IV G, at 1,000 meters, the APCR pierces more armor and at the same accuracy (compared to APHE). So, in idea, it should almost be preferred over the APHE (if you know where to aim), so why is it recommended to use it at short range?

 

(Having tried it in game, I find it generally inefficient)

Edited January 26, 2022 by No_Face

[SCG_judgedeath3]

1 hour ago, No_Face said:

I never really understood why. On a Pz.IV G, at 1,000 meters, the APCR pierces more armor and at the same accuracy (compared to APHE). So, in idea, it should almost be preferred over the APHE (if you know where to aim), so why is it recommended to use it at short range?

Simply laws of physics, APCR are lighter round and will drop speed a lot faster than a heavy shell, APHE is heavier. 1KM is pretty short for tank combat in my opnion, tiger tanks aim was zeroed at that. At that range APCR is slightly better but if you check any gun performance test you will notice APCR lose a lot of penetration fast compared to APHE.
Plus APHE has a explosive charge inside, APCR is almost a solid shot.

[No_Face]

Oh okay, for me, 1,000 meters was already a good distance. I thought a short distance was less than 500m.

[Yogiflight]

13 hours ago, No_Face said:

Really? I want to know everything. How far did you use it? Against which target? Where did you aim? ?

It was with the Tiger shooting at KV-1s. If I remember it correctly I was shooting at 1300m. The main issue at such distances, especially with the HEAT round is, you need the correct distance, as the trajectory is quite curved. Therefore setting your distance 50m too short or too high , might mean you will miss the target. So I needed some rounds to get it right. This is easier with APHE, as it has a more flat trajectory.

Where did I aim? At that distance with the Tiger gunsight with 2.5x magnification, you aim at the target. But seriously, it is by far not as important as with the APCR ammunition, where you hit the target. It penetrates all armors and has a much higher effect inside the hit tank.

What might make hitting a target get especially difficult is wind. The HEAT rounds have a lower velocity and are not as heavy as APHE rounds. Therefore they will drift more with strong crosswinds.

I didn't test the PzKpfw IV, yet.

 

EDIT: I just tried it with the PzKpfw IV on the Kuban map and destroyed one KV-1 at 1600m. But, what I had not thought about, when you try it in QMB, the higher difficulty is not finding the correct distance, but finding the correct lead, as the enemy tanks always are moving. I had to aim outside of the markings, because the rounds take that much time to reach the target. And as you don't have markings to aim, it is a bit difficult to get the correct height. And, man, is this trajectory curved.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Yogiflight

[ShampooX]

One word: APHE

[Yogiflight]

2 hours ago, Jawbreaker1-6 said:

One word: APHE

Not a word, but four letters, but absolutely. I would never use HEAT in a real mission. It was just for curiosity.