Next BoX - Europe and Pacific

[Feldgrun]

What would you like to see as the next IL-2 Battle of "X" in Europe and the Pacific?  If none of these listed, please let us know what you would rather see.

 

Understanding that most of these would take certain unavailable maps and assets, and there is some duplication in other IL-2 sims (Cliffs of Dover), this is to assess your interest.

Edited January 7, 2022 by Feldgrun

[Alexmarine]

Given the question is "What would you like to see" I slightly went over with the wishful thinking, I admit it

 

France 1940: the AdA and RAF units struggle against the Luftwaffe blitzkrieg is criminally underrepresented in flight sims I believe, many beautiful (if not great) planes: MS406s, H-75s, Fairey Battles and don't forget about watching the 109s jockeys struggling with the manual RPM control of the E-3 

 

Singapore 1942: even more wishful thinking for sure (indeed Burma or New Guinea are probably better pick for almost the same flavour) but dang if I want to see a Buffalo vs Hayabusa fight 

[FoxbatRU]

Another useless, but pleasant fortune telling on coffee grounds. I will take part with pleasure.

 

For Europe, I would like Berlin 45. Yes, ideally I would also like Leningrad 42, in order to affect Finland as well. But I understand that waiting 6 years for Yak-3, La-7 and He-162 with Me-163 will not be realistic.

As for the Pacific Ocean, I want it too. And I want a consistent movement, and not first the 45nd, and then the 42nd year. The first was still Midway, not the Guadalcanal. Maybe Pearl Harbor could have been done. But as a fan of off-line, I can't imagine how you can make a long-term career there. But if there is no career, then the chapter will have popularity, like the Flying Circus.

Edited January 7, 2022 by FoxbatRU

[HBPencil]

For Europe I chose Berlin 1945 although any other late war eastern front theater would do (e.g. Courland) but for the CBI/PTO I would go for two options that aren't available in the poll; Solomons 1943 and Burma 1944.

[Avimimus]

I'd actually prefer Battle of France  But I chose Battle of Berlin because I want a Junkers Ju-188 and a He-162... and it seems more plausible.

 

IMHO, I would probably do Battle of Berlin followed by a Leningrad 1941-1944 scenarios that consisted of missing aircraft that would be useful in several other theatres (e.g. Fw-190A4, Ju-87D-5, Il-4, LaGG-3 late, Fw-189, Fi-156). 

 

It'd be interesting to have a detailed artillery spotting mini-module with both scout vehicles or command tanks and aircraft (in fact the Fi-156 and Fw-189 could be released as part of this - which would free-up a few slots in Leningrad for other aircraft).

 

If they ever did Korea it'd make sense to do a West Germany 1948-1955 module (it'd help complete the Korea plane set and give more interesting gameplay - with a larger variety of Soviet and British aircraft in a more balanced scenario).

 

Then - Italy 1944 - which would coincide with an Isonzo/Adriatic FC.V module for the Flying Circus series (there are lots of fascinating and shockingly well documented Austrio-Hungarian and Italian aircraft).

 

 

[Gambit21]

There’s no “N/A” option for number 1, so I just said BoB.

 

 

[spreckair]

How about the Balkans and Greece?

[-DED-Mazai]

 

The most promising, in my opinion, is Leningrad or Murmansk (Subarctic), where you can play 41-44. Well, and add to the map sets of early planes, as in these theaters fought and the Finns, you can include in the set and the Finnish squadrons and planes on which they fought.

[CountZero]

1 hour ago, mehh said:

 

The most promising, in my opinion, is Leningrad or Murmansk (Subarctic), where you can play 41-44. Well, and add to the map sets of early planes, as in these theaters fought and the Finns, you can include in the set and the Finnish squadrons and planes on which they fought.

And yet they alowed players to try to make maps of that two areas in past, if they had any distant plan to do any of two they would not give permision to group of players to try to make map of thouse areas. Not gona happend like full 5v5 DLC, your only chance is that thouse user made maps get finished and added. 

 

[Talisman]

Some nice carrier operations for Salerno 1943 

 

Operation Avalanche naval order of battle - Wikipedia

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman

[-DED-Mazai]

based on the experience gained with the map of Normandy, you can take the next one of the same size ..

for example, this one: it’s immediately suitable for the Baltic states, and for Finnish, and for Leningrad .. and you can play scenarios from June 22, 1941 to November 24, 1944. ., as well as the Finnish war ..

[76IAP-Black]

I'm for something new.. pacific, new planes, new maps, new vegetation and new scenario

[Falcon41]

Sicily and Guadalcanal are my votes.

[Feldgrun]

I'm sure 1C has already decided what's next. It'll have to be something that sells well, so I doubt it would be something remote like Spanish Civil War or Finland, despite there being a small number of fans of both of these conflicts.

 

Personally, I hope it's a land based conflict in the Pacific, flying from island airfields. Battle of Guadalcanal, or Battle of the Solomon Islands would be ideal!

[Trooper117]

Yep, Guadalcanal or one of the other land based Pacific scenarios would be ideal... but then again, Korea keeps cropping up in my mind as it's been mentioned by the devs more than once!

[Feldgrun]

47 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

Yep, Guadalcanal or one of the other land based Pacific scenarios would be ideal... but then again, Korea keeps cropping up in my mind as it's been mentioned by the devs more than once!

 

Korea would be great, but there's a lot of WWII left before they start branching outside of 1939 - 1945. With WWI aircraft, WWII aircraft & tanks, I think they've got their hands (too) full already.

[Trooper117]

I thought the WWI and Tanks side of things were being delt with by outside agencies...

[Gambit21]

I'm not holding on to any PTO hopes for various reasons...in fact it would shock me at this point of PTO was announced.

My guess is back to Russia, Yak 3 etc.

[CountZero]

what east front, IF there is next DLC you have better chances see PTO anounced then east front, maybe someone can check when was first east front flying game made, 70s, 80s, 90s or 2000s ? and see why west front ones were so popular before, dont know  why east front flying game was not made before...

 

Channel 43 is easyest DLC for them to make, same type of stuff like BoN good for training new guys, and west front is popular, more 109/190 vs Spits

[Feldgrun]

9 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

I thought the WWI and Tanks side of things were being delt with by outside agencies...

 

Yes, but I think 1C checks and may rework what other agencies submit. It still takes devs time and energy.

[jojy47jojyrocks]

I think devs will have hard time to make a Pacific campaign that involves carriers. So, if they cannot do that, then, I do hope an IJA Pacific campaign, more along the lines of land based planes.

 

I think Mediterranean Campaign is more possible than Pacific since material are available better than for Pacific front.

[kestrel79]

Italy gets more vote. 

[Feldgrun]

I would love to see a BOX with the Fiat G.55, Macchi C.205 & Reggiane Re.2005 - what great planes! 

[ITAF_Rani]

In case MTO will be developed...I d like to see B17/ B24 take off from Tunisia to Italy.

 

 

Edited September 14, 2022 by ITAF_Rani

[Avimimus]

On 9/12/2022 at 9:31 PM, CountZero said:

what east front, IF there is next DLC you have better chances see PTO anounced then east front, maybe someone can check when was first east front flying game made, 70s, 80s, 90s or 2000s ? and see why west front ones were so popular before, dont know  why east front flying game was not made before...

 

The American market 330 million people , who, on average compared to a country like Russia, are more likely to be able to afford high-end gaming rigs.

 

But there is another factor - almost all flight simulator companies were headquartered in the United Statues (with a couple in the U.K.). This mean that only the strategic bombing of the Mighty 8th, Midway, and sometimes the Battle of Britain were really considered of interest. Subjects relevant to the U.K. & Commonwealth were often ignored as well (e.g. Mediterranean, strategic night bombing).

 

The conventional wisdom among a lot of people on the forums back in 1999 was often that not much of interest happened on the 'Eastern Front'. I also recall several threads from 2000-2002 period where people were insisting that those events didn't really impact the war (and then being shocked by the data about the number of units deployed and the causalities sustained by Germany on each front respectively).

 

What changed this was a Russian developer, with a team of Russians, deciding to build a Russian flight simulator... they didn't have the same biases... so they created something different. This then led to a successful series with Il-2 Sturmovik couple of exclusively Eastern European expansions (Forgotten Battles, Peshka, Il-10)... and the three modern Il-2 modules (Stalingrad, Moscow, and Kuban).

[Trooper117]

''Oh those Russians''...

[Avimimus]

3 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

''Oh those Russians''...

 

Speaking of which. It was the forerunners of DCS (a largely Russian team at the time), and Maddox games (WWII) who essentially rebuilt the military flight-sim industry after the boom and crash of ~2001 led to the termination of almost all flight sim developers (the genre was almost dead for a bit). They also both provided a lot more ongoing support and development for their products than was common at the time. I'm not sure what portion of the Gennadich team was Russian, but clearly a lot of the impetus for Rise of Flight came from Russian devs too. So I'm glad that Russian developers got involved - otherwise I'd still be flying the SWOTL mod when I felt like taking up a Mig-3 or Ju-87G ?

[CountZero]

22 hours ago, Avimimus said:

 

The American market 330 million people , who, on average compared to a country like Russia, are more likely to be able to afford high-end gaming rigs.

 

But there is another factor - almost all flight simulator companies were headquartered in the United Statues (with a couple in the U.K.). This mean that only the strategic bombing of the Mighty 8th, Midway, and sometimes the Battle of Britain were really considered of interest. Subjects relevant to the U.K. & Commonwealth were often ignored as well (e.g. Mediterranean, strategic night bombing).

 

The conventional wisdom among a lot of people on the forums back in 1999 was often that not much of interest happened on the 'Eastern Front'. I also recall several threads from 2000-2002 period where people were insisting that those events didn't really impact the war (and then being shocked by the data about the number of units deployed and the causalities sustained by Germany on each front respectively).

 

What changed this was a Russian developer, with a team of Russians, deciding to build a Russian flight simulator... they didn't have the same biases... so they created something different. This then led to a successful series with Il-2 Sturmovik couple of exclusively Eastern European expansions (Forgotten Battles, Peshka, Il-10)... and the three modern Il-2 modules (Stalingrad, Moscow, and Kuban).

 

why didnt russians develop flying games in 70s, 80s or 90s, wonder what was problem.

[SKG51_Sarastro]

Guadalcanal and Malta ?

[357th_KW]

On 9/14/2022 at 11:55 AM, ITAF_Rani said:

In case MTO will be developed...I d like to see B17/ B24 take off from Tunisia to Italy.

 

 

A B-17F/G would make an awesome addition to both BoN and BoBp as well.  People love you to argue against them because we’ll never never been able to put hundreds of them in the sky at once, or fly all the way to Berlin and back.  One of the first B-17 missions over Europe was a strike against Abbeville airfield by 20 B-17s on August 19th, 1942 in support of the Dieppe raid.  The next day, a force of 11 B-17s struck a marshaling yard near Amiens.  USAAF B-17s bombed lots of targets in France and western Germany from the beginning of their operations through spring 1945.  Issues with mission length could easily be solved with air starts and some way of allowing players to end the mission in the air.

[CountZero]

35 minutes ago, 357th_KW said:

A B-17F/G would make an awesome addition to both BoN and BoBp as well.  People love you to argue against them because we’ll never never been able to put hundreds of them in the sky at once, or fly all the way to Berlin and back.  One of the first B-17 missions over Europe was a strike against Abbeville airfield by 20 B-17s on August 19th, 1942 in support of the Dieppe raid.  The next day, a force of 11 B-17s struck a marshaling yard near Amiens.  USAAF B-17s bombed lots of targets in France and western Germany from the beginning of their operations through spring 1945.  Issues with mission length could easily be solved with air starts and some way of allowing players to end the mission in the air.

So its clear price of development is whats stoping point, so even AI only model of B-17 is to expencive for adding in full DLC, like it was done at first with twin bombers. Flyable B-17 is totaly out of question, but AI B-17 in full DLC of 10 airplanes is not posible as its not profitable, because if it is it would be done. Simple reason why we dont have B-17.

[Avimimus]

 

On 9/17/2022 at 10:29 AM, CountZero said:

 

why didnt russians develop flying games in 70s, 80s or 90s, wonder what was problem.

 

Same reason other people didn't... no personal computers in people's homes. I'm starting to think you might be younger than me  

 

FYI - In 1995 less then 10% of Americans had Internet access. The first public previews for Il-2 happened around 1999 when 10% of Europeans had access to Internet. The amount of people who had computers capable of running a flight simulator at home was very small. 

 

The technology was also very limited in this era - even in 1990 we just saw the first flight simulators which had vehicles to target (e.g. LHX, Stormovik Soviet Attack Fighter). It is also worth noting that in 1990 the Soviet Union still existed.

 

 

  

On 9/20/2022 at 1:21 PM, 357th_KW said:

A B-17F/G would make an awesome addition to both BoN and BoBp as well.  People love you to argue against them because we’ll never never been able to put hundreds of them in the sky at once, or fly all the way to Berlin and back.  One of the first B-17 missions over Europe was a strike against Abbeville airfield by 20 B-17s on August 19th, 1942 in support of the Dieppe raid.  The next day, a force of 11 B-17s struck a marshaling yard near Amiens.  USAAF B-17s bombed lots of targets in France and western Germany from the beginning of their operations through spring 1945.  Issues with mission length could easily be solved with air starts and some way of allowing players to end the mission in the air.

 

Attacks scaled up quickly though. By 1943 formations (or sub-formations) of 36 aircraft were normal. So these smaller raids you are talking about represent relatively atypical uses.

 

Btw. There were also a few early attempts at daylight raids with a dozen Lancasters in that era, and Lancasters were routinely used in daylight raids in 1945. So daylight use of Lancs is about as common.

[Lusekofte]

On 9/13/2022 at 2:43 AM, Gambit21 said:

I'm not holding on to any PTO hopes for various reasons...in fact it would shock me at this point of PTO was announced.

My guess is back to Russia, Yak 3 etc.

I have no hope for PTO either, but back to Russia would not be a economical winner. 

Personally I believe we will see Italy. 

43 before Italy Surrender. To give axis side some new things. And if I am correct, some Italian 3 engine planes is to me a dream, giving them floats even more so.

But I personally hope for early war or SCW or abattle of France. If Russian front Winterwar Finland. 

Litza front north

Edited September 22, 2022 by LuseKofte

[BlitzPig_EL]

Well for "Europe" I voted Malta, because there was no "North Africa" option, which there should be.

 

As for the "Pacific" I went with New Guinea, a nearly forgotten campaign that was quite important in reality.

[cardboard_killer]

Well, I'll buy any of it. I like the idea of Leningrad because the front was relatively static. But I voted for France '40 as I think much of the map work is done and a fun plane set would open up. Honestly, I'd love North Africa but the other sim has closed that theater (and as much as I want to, I cannot get into that other sim).

 

I am not sanguine about PTO. Distances are almost always too far to make it historical, and I like the historical aspect of the game. Doing away with it in a dramatic fashion leaves me cold. But, I'd still buy it.

[Lusekofte]

5 hours ago, cardboard_killer said:

Well, I'll buy any of it.

I did too, before.

Now, I only buy what is of my own interest.

Of the packs I bought I do not use BOBp planes except P 38 occasionally.  Tankcrew and in general not FC 

I will buy a pack containing at least two planes of interest, or are early war. 

 

[Chief_Mouser]

Epirus - Greek RHAF, Italian RA, British RAF, German Luftwaffe. Loads and loads of interesting 'crap' planes and a killer map with mountains and sea. What more could you want? Who said floatplanes? ?

If not then Malta 42 and Sicily 43 (can use two versions of the same map). Let's get some more Italian aircraft in here.

Probably won't buy any late-war Eastern front stuff, although the Do335 would be mighty tempting!

 

Edited September 22, 2022 by 216th_Cat

[cardboard_killer]

Considering how inexpensive BoX modules are, I'm surprised anyone would preclude any theater. There are theaters I don't care for (e.g. Korea), but I can't go on a date for the $80 it costs for a new module. Even with limited income, the $ per hour of enjoyment return is pretty darn high. And I could always wait for a sale, too.

[Avimimus]

15 minutes ago, cardboard_killer said:

Considering how inexpensive BoX modules are, I'm surprised anyone would preclude any theater. There are theaters I don't care for (e.g. Korea), but I can't go on a date for the $80 it costs for a new module. Even with limited income, the $ per hour of enjoyment return is pretty darn high. And I could always wait for a sale, too.

 

It is an exceptionally good deal (even pre-ordered) and a somewhat unfathomably good deal when bought on sale. The quality really is there. However, it is always good to recognise that some people don't have much disposable income, and the fact that the game can run on ten year old machines now means that it is possible for some people to get a lot of hours of enjoyment out of a module but not necessarily be able to afford more (at least in the short term).

 

 

7 hours ago, cardboard_killer said:

Well, I'll buy any of it. I like the idea of Leningrad because the front was relatively static. But I voted for France '40 as I think much of the map work is done and a fun plane set would open up. Honestly, I'd love North Africa but the other sim has closed that theater (and as much as I want to, I cannot get into that other sim).

 

I am not sanguine about PTO. Distances are almost always too far to make it historical, and I like the historical aspect of the game. Doing away with it in a dramatic fashion leaves me cold. But, I'd still buy it.

 

There was a recent interview with one of the 3rd party DCS devs (Magnitude 3 LLC I think) where they speculated that CFD was getting cheap enough that it could be used to generate data which could then be used as a reference point for developing the game's flight model. This was speculated as a possible way to fill in the gaps for Japanese aircraft. So it is looking more possible, if not plausible.

 

However, the PTO requires the development of a lot of new assets. The way to do it would be to spread it over more than one module. For instance, develop the land object assets as part of New Guinea or Guadalcanal (or even Korea) module. Then develop carrier tech for Midway. That would spread out the costs over more then one module. Still, it would involve some risks.

 

 

If I were the devs I'd probably announce two things simultaneously:

 

I'd develop a 'half module' Channel Map from 1941-1944 which would detail the English part of the map more, add bocage/hedges (for the Knights who say Ni), an ability to survive bailing out over water, and a few additional aircraft for the Channel (Mustang Mk.I with 4x20mm cannon, a British operated Avenger etc.).

 

At the same time I'd develop a 1945 East scenario as that'd bring a bunch of high performance aircraft, give a bunch of Russian opponents to late war German aircraft, and make use of the language skills and research opportunities that come with a predominantly Russian team.

 

P.S. Other options I'd consider if I were them are a 1948-1955 European theatre scenario or Leningrad.

 

What I'd personally want is different: Isonzo to the Adriatic in WWI. It is a wonderful map with wonderful aircraft, and some very high performance aircraft too. I'd probably save Italy 1944 until it was time to develop the WWI version

Edited September 22, 2022 by Avimimus

[percydanvers]

2 hours ago, Avimimus said:

 

It is an exceptionally good deal (even pre-ordered) and a somewhat unfathomably good deal when bought on sale. The quality really is there. However, it is always good to recognise that some people don't have much disposable income, and the fact that the game can run on ten year old machines now means that it is possible for some people to get a lot of hours of enjoyment out of a module but not necessarily be able to afford more (at least in the short term).

 

 

 

There was a recent interview with one of the 3rd party DCS devs (Magnitude 3 LLC I think) where they speculated that CFD was getting cheap enough that it could be used to generate data which could then be used as a reference point for developing the game's flight model. This was speculated as a possible way to fill in the gaps for Japanese aircraft. So it is looking more possible, if not plausible.

 

However, the PTO requires the development of a lot of new assets. The way to do it would be to spread it over more than one module. For instance, develop the land object assets as part of New Guinea or Guadalcanal (or even Korea) module. Then develop carrier tech for Midway. That would spread out the costs over more then one module. Still, it would involve some risks.

 

 

If I were the devs I'd probably announce two things simultaneously:

 

I'd develop a 'half module' Channel Map from 1941-1944 which would detail the English part of the map more, add bocage/hedges (for the Knights who say Ni), an ability to survive bailing out over water, and a few additional aircraft for the Channel (Mustang Mk.I with 4x20mm cannon, a British operated Avenger etc.).

 

At the same time I'd develop a 1945 East scenario as that'd bring a bunch of high performance aircraft, give a bunch of Russian opponents to late war German aircraft, and make use of the language skills and research opportunities that come with a predominantly Russian team.

 

P.S. Other options I'd consider if I were them are a 1948-1955 European theatre scenario or Leningrad.

 

What I'd personally want is different: Isonzo to the Adriatic in WWI. It is a wonderful map with wonderful aircraft, and some very high performance aircraft too. I'd probably save Italy 1944 until it was time to develop the WWI version

I too would really enjoy if we could have like “mini-campaigns” that aren’t as big in scope but give you interesting new career chapters and cover interesting moments in history. Like for example they could experiment with adding a career chapter and AQMB set on Prokhorovka. Any ace who was anyone on either side flew over Kursk, so it would be really fun to have a miniature career chapter in that setting.