Getting bombers (bombs, cargo, or paras) to drop on first pass.

[No_85_Gramps]

So, I searched the forums and read what I could find re. bombers. Found a mission, it was spectate only, but was 3 Ju52's dropping paras. Worked perfectly so I exported the group, and imported it into a mission I am working on. When I ran the mission the paras dropped as expected. Went into the ME, modified the planes to be C47's, and lowered the altitude for all appropriate wp's and MCUs to 300 meters. Updated mission results:

1st and 2nd runs - paras dropped on 1st pass over target and RTB.

3rd run - 3 passes before drop.

4th run - 5 passes and no drop.

Took a break, came back and ran it again - paras dropped on 2nd pass.

 

So, does anyone know of a way to force the drop on the first pass over the target, or is it something we just have to live with ? Thanks to whoever posted that Ju52 mission, I forgot the name. There were a couple of other results left out as they involved accidentally triggering some enemy fighters. 

[No_85_Gramps]

One last run just now and drop took place on the first pass over the target. Will spend some time re-reading forum topics and the manual.

[Gambit21]

There’s a bit of an art to it, and trial and error. 

[AEthelraedUnraed]

I noticed that since the last update, the ForceComplete MCU has a "Force Drop Bombs" or something option. Perhaps this could be used?

[No_85_Gramps]

53 minutes ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

I noticed that since the last update, the ForceComplete MCU has a "Force Drop Bombs" or something option. Perhaps this could be used?

Interesting, I'll look into that. Thank you!

[AEthelraedUnraed]

1 hour ago, No_85_Gramps said:

Interesting, I'll look into that. Thank you!

Please let us know if it works

[No_85_Gramps]

No luck so far after a few attempts using force complete. Trying to tie the logic into the flight is a hard one. Will let it go for a few days and quit racking my brain. Here's a pic of the current logic that works fine except you don't know which pass the chutes drop.

[No_85_Gramps]

Okay, so I tried placing a check zone just NE of the attack area, that way if the paras don't jump on the first pass, the check zone gets triggered and the force complete (w/emer ord drop checked) fires. This does not make the paras jump, so the force complete command does not work. I'm done with this particular exercise in frustration.

[FAFG_Ogier]

In my experience, the important point is the position of the last waypoint before the drop. I might tell the obvious, and feel free to ignore my text if it's better explained elsewhere :

• the bombers will receive their order just after the waypoint whose target is the "command attack area" for the bombing run ;
• if there is not enough distance for the attack (i.e. if the waypoint is too close to the attack area point for the bomb to fall on the target if they are dropped right away), the bombers will need to circle ; take more distance to be sure
• example : I have a flight of HE111, at 5000m, set for 320km/h
• the last waypoint is at 5600m from the "command attack" point
• I don't know if it's important, but the "command attack" MCY y is set to 5000m too.
• everything runs fine.

In theory (and in the void), the distance would need to be larger than v * sqrt(2*h/9.81). Here it would be something like 2838m. 5000 gives a reasonable safety margin.

 

 

Oh, and obviously the free fall hypothesis behind the computation are not very relevant for paratroopers...

 

Edited January 14, 2022 by FAFG_Ogier

[jollyjack]

Got this oldie from Prangster. Don't forget to use bingo bombs, bingo cargo did not work in the past.

Ju52 drop.zip

Edited January 14, 2022 by jollyjack

[No_85_Gramps]

FAFG_Ogier - thank you for the info, last WP is 5800m from attack area.

Jollyjack - thank you, I used that for the basis of my flight.

 

It's not that I objected to multiple passes before bombs/cargo/paras fall, I just wanted the paras to fall on the first pass for mission purposes. I found a work-around using a complex trigger to get the results I was looking for, it's somewhat messy but it works.

[jollyjack]

The bingo Bombs tip i got from good ole Jim ..

 

My problem now is to blow up BattTodt etc, but i am getting there with a quite complex setup from Sketch.

Blow them up with anything LoL.

 

It worked once with 4.605 and this plane (historical skin on haluter's, +He111H6_4K_British_Lybia_v2b),

historical was that the Tommies used it for beer hauiling ...

Armed with SC1000 bombs, alas not any more; guess they changed something?

 

Edited January 15, 2022 by jollyjack

[No_85_Gramps]

Sometimes it hard to figure out what has changed, one minute something works fine, and the next it's broken. It's always so much fun working with the ME! My few missions are pretty simple, and just working on them is frustrating at times. As someone else mentioned, trying to fall asleep but thinking about a mission problem, "I think I got it!", now, stay in bed, or go and fire up the ME. 

[jollyjack]

30 minutes ago, No_85_Gramps said:

Sometimes it hard to figure out what has changed, one minute something works fine, and the next it's broken. It's always so much fun working with the ME! My few missions are pretty simple, and just working on them is frustrating at times. As someone else mentioned, trying to fall asleep but thinking about a mission problem, "I think I got it!", now, stay in bed, or go and fire up the ME. 

 

Sometimes it hard to figure out what has changed, one minute something works fine, and the next it's broken. It's always (NOT?) so much fun working with the ME! ?

[Deacon352nd]

I thought I was the only one that had those mission making problems disturbing my sleep. How many times have you been awakened from sound sleep by some idea of how to correct a problem that surfaced in a mission that for months had been working fine. 

[jollyjack]

Throw away all your missions that work OK immediately after the test? 

[No_85_Gramps]

For me it's more like: Light bulb comes on while trying to fall asleep, I'll try that in the morning. Morning comes, I remember the light bulb coming on but not what it was I wanted to try.

[Deacon352nd]

I get an idea like you mentioned. Work out all the details in my mind and then before I get to the computer to put it in my mission, my wife will ask me to do something and by the time I start the computer, I forgot half of what I wanted to do. 
Aging is great, isn’t it?   But it beats the alternative. 

[No_85_Gramps]

16 minutes ago, Deacon352nd said:

Aging is great, isn’t it?   But it beats the alternative. 

Yes, that's true. Aging can bring a whole lot of changes.

[jollyjack]

3 hours ago, No_85_Gramps said:

For me it's more like: Light bulb comes on while trying to fall asleep, I'll try that in the morning. Morning comes, I remember the light bulb coming on but not what it was I wanted to try.

 

I'm halfways onto LED lighting ... seems to save energy.

[Beebop]

On 1/15/2022 at 4:40 AM, No_85_Gramps said:

Sometimes it hard to figure out what has changed, one minute something works fine, and the next it's broken.

I've always believed since IL-2 1946 that the game code was incestuous, that is change 'A' and something else totally unrelated gets changed too.  It seldom has any obvious connection making troubleshooting very difficult.  My guess is something like that happened for the first hotfix for the latest update.  Of the changes advertised I can not see any connection with them and closing out the game.  Even with the second hotfix, exiting the game still has a tiny bit of a pause that wasn't there prior to the last update but it's better than the  l - o - n - g   pause we first experienced.

On 1/15/2022 at 4:40 AM, No_85_Gramps said:

trying to fall asleep but thinking about a mission problem, "I think I got it!", now, stay in bed, or go and fire up the ME. 

With no work or significant other I'm responsible to or for, I just get up and fire up the ME while the iron is hot.  I can always take a nap anytime during the day. 

AHHHH, retirement!

 

 

[No_85_Gramps]

2 hours ago, Beebop said:

Even with the second hotfix, exiting the game still has a tiny bit of a pause that wasn't there prior to the last update but it's better than the  l - o - n - g   pause we first experienced.

With no work or significant other I'm responsible to or for, I just get up and fire up the ME while the iron is hot.  I can always take a nap anytime during the day. 

AHHHH, retirement!

 

 

I dabbled in programming for PC's a long time ago, and one thing I learned early on was that modifying code for routine A, would break routines B,C, and D in a way that did not make any sense. I'm retired also, about seven years now, just the wife and me. Working in the FME is that brain exercise I need according to all the health experts. 

[JG7_X-Man]

If hasn't already been solved yet - I have a "Operation Market Garden" single Mission that does exactly that. crack it open and take a look.

[No_85_Gramps]

Thank you for letting me know, however, neither mission will load in game, just kicks me back to mission selection screen. Tried loading in FME but it crashes, and re-save does not work on them.

[JG7_X-Man]

On 2/3/2022 at 9:22 PM, No_85_Gramps said:

Thank you for letting me know, however, neither mission will load in game, just kicks me back to mission selection screen. Tried loading in FME but it crashes, and re-save does not work on them.

I guess I need to update it for the new version -

[IckyATLAS]

Maybe one thing regarding drops, if you are dropping in a region where there is AAA or anything attacking the planes then if your setting for the last Waypoint and then the Attack Area is Low (they will do whatever they like) or Medium (they will evade if attacked) the planes will make evasive actions and maybe not drop the cargo or paratroopers. Keep always those two last MCU's with a High setting.

An additional element that helps is to have a straight same altitude flight trajectory on the last 3-4 kilometers of flight before drop. For bombers this means time to open the bomb bay doors before dropping.

Edited February 16, 2022 by IckyATLAS

[jollyjack]

Amazing how clever this Ai logic is developing. Even more amazing that some clever sim nerds around here discover all them tricks without a manual even.

 

Recently i've been loading some AQMB stuff in to the ME, it's like a great school playground or -laboratory with out a teacher for new tricks on the block.

I now wonder if the AQMB uses templates hidden in some obscure GTP files: the action MCU stuff that is saved into the mission files does not see much grouping.

[Hamaha15]

Good evening,

 

these are the settings to make a Ju-52 drop its paratroopers (or cargo containers) immediately over the target on the first pass. It took me a number of trial loops to find out the optimum parameters during the development of the 'Operation Stoesser' mission. These values may differ for a C-47.

 

1. The minimum flying altitude over ground is 250 m

2. The target area command must be within the perimeter of the trigger waypoint. Flying distance between triggering point when the plane enters the waypoint perimeter and the attack area is 2500 m

 

The mission design is about three years old. Honestly speaking, I didn't try whether it still works after the many, many game updates before writing this comment. The mission would desserve an update too with regard to improved scenery in the meantime...

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

Edited February 19, 2022 by Hamaha15

[No_85_Gramps]

10 minutes ago, Hamaha15 said:

1. The minimum flying altitude over is 250 m

2. The target area command must be within the perimeter of the trigger waypoint. Flying distance between triggering point when the plane enters the waypoint perimeter and the attack area is 2500 m

 

The mission design is about three years old. Honestly speaking, I didn't try whether it still works after the many, many game updates before writing this comment. The mission would desserve an update too with regard to improved scenery in the meantime...

 

Cheers

 

 

 

Thanks Hamaha15! Will try this out at some point.