Force feedback flight stick?

[J2_Bidu]

32 minutes ago, 76SQN-Bulldog said:

Bidu,

 

Yes, that was probably the issue. It may be a case of playing with it but yes, there are times where there is no tension whatsoever (as in level flight) and then she really comes into her own. Why not fly a solo offline to take-off and feel the bumps and then at altitude, practice dives and climbing as well as landing? If she is working well, you'll know it. And yes, there are times where you cannot feel much at all, especially level flight; however, go in a very steep dive and climb. You'll know it. It has been a lifesaver in my Bf 109 G2 at high-speed dives and it is hard to pull back on the stick. Amazing. 

 

From what I know, the stick corrects itself - perhaps the flaccid feel you have.

 

As before, am very happy to discuss the Se5A with you on Discord. Also, I can send you the technical data on how to get the best out of her. 

 

S!

 

Bulldog

 

 

Try stalls, too. She goes mental. 

 

Now I have a bit of experimenting to do

[=LD=Bulldog*]

Enjoy and please do ask if you have any questions. I have been playing IL-2 with the stick since the sim came out (2002?). They're built like Panzers.

[J2_Bidu]

1 hour ago, 76SQN-Bulldog said:

Enjoy and please do ask if you have any questions. I have been playing IL-2 with the stick since the sim came out (2002?). They're built like Panzers.

 

I was really lucky having found two of these in good condition for about €25 each. I like my Warthog though but now I'm wondering if it limits me.

[=LD=Bulldog*]

Do let me know how you get on, Bidu. Those sticks are the very best (well, I think so). ?

 

May see you in the virtual skies this evening in my flying coffin (Se5A). 

 

Bulldog

[J2_Bidu]

23 hours ago, J2_Bidu said:

Like sometimes the stifness drops instantly and it is completely flaccid for an instant / position, until it picks up again.

 

Sorry to quote myself, but I got the solution to this problem from Trupobaw: there is a sensor in the form of a little hole in the area where the base of your hand should be placed. If you have small hands, it may not be completely covered, interfering with the deactivation of the stick. I solved it by placing a bit of tape to cover it. It not only changed those occasional losses of force, but also improved the overall feeling.

 

Thanks, Trupo!

 

2 hours ago, 76SQN-Bulldog said:

Do let me know how you get on, Bidu. Those sticks are the very best (well, I think so). ?

 

May see you in the virtual skies this evening in my flying coffin (Se5A). 

 

Bulldog

 

The immediate result is this: not missing my Warthog at all - I'm surprised. Now I need to develop the feel for it, to read the signs it gives me.

Edited January 13, 2022 by J2_Bidu

[=LD=Bulldog*]

Good man and welcome to the fantastic world of FF. I would get as much practice as possible and learn to love it. In a violent scrap and/or at angles of stalling, she can save your skin (unless you're in a Se5A as you're dead meat!). Please do let me know how you get on.

 

I may have to get a third MSFFS 2 (my second seems to have lost power - no green light on the base - for some reason and need to have it checked out).

 

Bulldog

 

 

 

 

 

 

[J2_Bidu]

On 1/13/2022 at 9:40 PM, 76SQN-Bulldog said:

Good man and welcome to the fantastic world of FF.

Just got the scare of my life diving the DXII. And I had "shaking" at about 30%... It really shook me up! ?

[=LD=Bulldog*]

?

[9./JG27golani79]

On 1/10/2022 at 1:20 PM, 76SQN-Bulldog said:

I have two MSFFB2 sticks and cannot imagine going back to simming without one and the force feedback is so detailed and precise. I nearly got a Warthog but stuck with the MSFFB2s: they're that good. You can also try Facebook Marketplace.

 

Bulldog

 

After being not satisfied with my X-55 stick I got 2 MSFFB2 sticks as well - they are great sticks but now I´m using a Virpil with CM2 base and extension and I must say it is easier to fly more precisley with the Virpil stick than with the FFB.

 

That being sad - my FFB sticks got shelved for the time being - although in the beginning I thought I couldn´t fly without FFB anymore.

 

I just wished that there were modern FFB sticks with different grips and extensions available for a reasonable price.

[NiiranenVR]

I have 1-2 MSFFB2 For sale ,  guess only for EU course of transport price 

[=LD=Bulldog*]

I am interested! Where are you based? I am UK.

 

Bulldog

[LLv34_Vellu]

Quote

MS FFB II is still fantastic stick although it is more than twenty years old. And after little modification it is even better. 

 

 

[NiiranenVR]

56 minutes ago, 76SQN-Bulldog said:

Bulldog

im from Denmark 

[=LD=Bulldog*]

Thanks. UK customs may be a pain... ?

My second Sidewinder 2 came back to life. These glorious sticks have more lives than a cat!

[ragner462]

On 1/6/2022 at 12:09 AM, Ala13_UnopaUno_VR said:

G940 LOGITECH +9 year used, it is perfect, Really immersive FFB+ simshaker jetpad. 

 

 

On 1/12/2022 at 11:12 PM, 76SQN-Bulldog said:

Bidu,

 

Yes, that was probably the issue. It may be a case of playing with it but yes, there are times where there is no tension whatsoever (as in level flight) and then she really comes into her own. Why not fly a solo offline to take-off and feel the bumps and then at altitude, practice dives and climbing as well as landing? If she is working well, you'll know it. And yes, there are times where you cannot feel much at all, especially level flight; however, go in a very steep dive and climb. You'll know it. It has been a lifesaver in my Bf 109 G2 at high-speed dives and it is hard to pull back on the stick. Amazing. 

 

From what I know, the stick corrects itself - perhaps the flaccid feel you have.

 

As before, am very happy to discuss the Se5A with you on Discord. Also, I can send you the technical data on how to get the best out of her. 

 

S!

 

Bulldog

 

 

Try stalls, too. She goes mental. 

Are the G940 pedals ffb,do you have to use the pedals or can you use any pedals.I'm thinking of buying this G940,is the price right.thank you.

[ragner462]

I'm thinking of buying this,  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224793897014 what do you think of the price.Is it a good deal,or should i try to make one like this .Any advice will be much appreciated.Thank you.

 

[Varibraun]

On 1/17/2022 at 9:38 AM, 9./JG27golani79 said:

I just wished that there were modern FFB sticks with different grips and extensions available for a reasonable price.

 

Amen to that...another of my long shot hopes is Virpil or VKB has that thought too.

[ragner462]

I'm thinking of buying this joystick,is it a good deal or is he asking to much.Any advice please.Thankyou.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224793897014?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055359.m1431.l2649

Edited January 19, 2022 by ragner462

[ragner462]

Thanks for your replies boys,great advice.

[1Sascha]

While I love the use of the FF motors to simulate spring tension, I've never been a huge fan of FF effects in flightsticks.

 

But I will heartily recommend the MS Sidewinder FF2 if you can get a good example on ebay. I got my red trigger version right around the time MS discontinued production, which must mean this thing is now at least ... errr .... 15 years old. ?

 

It still works flawlessly.

 

The FF2 Sidewinder I had before my current one also lasted years and years, but it did develop two faults (which could mean these flaws are common with all FF2s, but I can't be sure of that):

 

1. Top left button on the stick (button 3, which I used for cannons in all my sims) started to fail. Still felt normal, but sometimes it wouldn't trigger the guns on the first or even second press.

2. Some positions on the hat-switch started to become unreliable as well. Down, down + left or right IIRC, because back then everyone was still using those hats as view-switches and the strain of me constantly checking 6 probably was too much for the hat..

Of course, being the idiot that I am, I threw away (or gave away?) that older stick when I got the red trigger one. Should've kept it as a back-up because from what I understand, it would've been easy to fix and there are/were quite a few people out there who can service and repair those old sticks. Oh well...

 

I've tried some other FF-sticks over the years when I could get my hands on them, but the FF2 was/is IMO the best you could ever get (outside of custom/boutique stuff I guess). Probably not even such a huge compliment for Microsoft, but more a statement about how Force Feedback failed to catch on in flight sims. I guess nobody bothered with further development because there was no real demand and when Microsoft killed off its Sidewinder product line, that was it for FF sticks.

[TG-55Panthercules]

Hate to necro this old thread but I can't seem to get the FFB to work with Flying Circus on my trusty Logitech Force 3D Pro since I upgraded to Windows 11, and I can't find anything useful/definitive in my Google searches as to whether there's any way to get that stick to work on Windows 11.  So, I've been thinking about picking up a used Microsoft FF2 joystick on e-Bay but before doing that I wanted to see if anyone can confirm that they are successfully getting this stick and its FFB to work with Flying Circus on Windows 11.  (Also, if anybody actually has gotten their Logitech Force 3D Pro to work in Flying Circus on Windows 11, I'd love to know what they did to make it work.)

Edited March 5, 2023 by TG-55Panthercules

[duko]

On 3/5/2023 at 5:04 AM, TG-55Panthercules said:

Hate to necro this old thread but I can't seem to get the FFB to work with Flying Circus on my trusty Logitech Force 3D Pro since I upgraded to Windows 11, and I can't find anything useful/definitive in my Google searches as to whether there's any way to get that stick to work on Windows 11.  So, I've been thinking about picking up a used Microsoft FF2 joystick on e-Bay but before doing that I wanted to see if anyone can confirm that they are successfully getting this stick and its FFB to work with Flying Circus on Windows 11.  (Also, if anybody actually has gotten their Logitech Force 3D Pro to work in Flying Circus on Windows 11, I'd love to know what they did to make it work.)

U need to install a specific older driver for this to work , if i remember is called Logitech 5.0xx profiler, i think is still on Logitech website. I have this and used on Win 11 in Il-2 with working FFB but MSFFB2  is 100x better , Logitech Force 3D Pro it may not be so good implemented in the sim, is very loose in the center making it very hard to aim and use in general, u can activate center spring in control panel but then u loose the FFB effect and u have just a spring based joystick barely average.

 

MSFFB2 worked very good of the box and amazing after i modified ffb.ini file to enchant the FFB effect.

Edited March 6, 2023 by duko

[TG-55Panthercules]

Thanks - I tried downloading and installing some old Logitech profiler a couple of days ago, and it didn't accomplish anything, but maybe it was too new.  Perhaps I'll go try one of the older ones, just in case.  At any rate, I have a MSFFB2 inbound from eBay that should arrive later this week, so I'll be able to compare the two even if I do get my Logitech stick working in the meantime.  I never could get my previous two MS sticks working in RoF back when I tried that a few years ago, but perhaps I'll have better luck with this one and FC.  I really do miss the FFB effects.

 

[EDIT] Managed to find an older version of the Logitech Profiler (5.09 something) and it seems to be working - it recognized and let me test my Force 3D Pro and the FFB effects worked for all the buttons etc. during the test.  I haven't had a chance to try it out in FC yet, but will try to do so later tonight - a good start at any rate.

 

[EDIT] Managed to get a few test runs in FC tonight - the FFB effects are now present with my Logitech stick, though pretty tame at this point.  Guess I'll try amping up the effects by tweaking the relevant file(s) tomorrow and see if I can coax a bit more force from it.

Edited March 7, 2023 by TG-55Panthercules

[TG-55Panthercules]

Well, I got my MSFFB2 yesterday and tried it out on a QMB mission today.  Rather underwhelming at this point - the stick has a nice firm and precise feel to it while flying, but otherwise the FFB effects are practically non-existent (basically nothing on either firing or landing/taxiing).  I realized I forgot to amp up the relevant section of the joys.ffp file (I had only done it for my Logitech stick before), so I'll give that a try before giving up on the MSFFB2 stick, but the FFB effects are going to have to get a lot better to make it worth losing all the extra buttons that the Logitech stick has.

[1Sascha]

14 hours ago, TG-55Panthercules said:

but the FFB effects are going to have to get a lot better to make it worth losing all the extra buttons that the Logitech stick has.

I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

While the capabilities of the FF2 are quite good considering its age, price-point and construction, at the end of the day, it's all plastic cogs and gears and a relatively weak motor doing all the work. Plus there's the issue with FF itself which, IMO, never really got developed far enough - and of course it's also a question of how well any game uses those effects. When I was still using my Sidewinder FFs, of course I wanted to use FF in my sims but after a while I simply disabled the effects and used the FF in its default setting (meaning to simulate simple springs).

 

One reason was that not all sims supported FF. Some of the ones that did didn't do a very good job - and I wanted to have a consistent experience from sim to sim - so after a while, I ended up disabling the effects. Personally I find that having a control setup that offers maximum consistency and linearity makes things easier for me - I guess that's why I'm more or less avoiding custom response curves these days and why I swapped my Gunfighter's (progressive) avia cams for the more linear space-cams. 

 

I'm struggling to think of a stick or control setup I've ever tried that had FF-effects that I would consider worth having over a traditional setup. I do remember vividly how impressed I was with Atari's "Hard Drivin' 2" arcade rig and how realistic its steering felt. But then again: It's probably easier to implement this sort of stuff in a driving game, especially one that's paired with a custom-built control setup meant for an arcade-machine.

 

S.

[DragonDaddy]

I can’t say that this has been my experience. I have been using it for many years with very good results. I followed a post here years ago showing how to increase effects and saw a big improvement. I have an older VKB stick, and several others, but still prefer MSFF2. For me, it’s about the immersion. 

[JG7_X-Man]

As a long time user of the MS FF and MSFF2 (1st use: 1999 - maybe 5 over the years) and a brief user of the Saitek Evo FF - I will will say there is nothing like it! I wouldn't say it feels realistic (...I have several hours in a 172) - but it does simulate forces for sure.

 

That said, I have moved on to Vpril hardware (HOTAS attached to chair) but I purchased the KW-908 Jetseat to give me the same feedback but through my chair and I get the same effects. The most important effect to me is when a stall is eminent.

 

 

[propeler]

There are already custom built FFB sticks(and pedals).

For example:

 

 

 

 

[102nd-YU-cmirko]

https://discord.com/channels/965234441511383080/986474224241741884

 

https://imgur.com/gallery/Do6Jr0T

[Crocogator]

On 1/8/2022 at 5:33 AM, [CPT]Crunch said:

https://www.ebay.com/p/141195789

 

Those were good sticks as far as FFB, the old Logitech Wingman Force, strong motors and cable pull driven.  The problem was they're simply massive, WTH are you going to put one to use it? 

 

That stick never went limp and flopped over.  You had to tone some of the effects down, it was a tiger to fight some of time, the motors weren't going to let you off that easy, and the cables were solid.

I have one of these sticks lying around and they're really impressive. The joy grip is the most comfortable I've experienced, good button placement too. But I don't think it works with any new windows, drivers just aren't there.