The Bomb damage model and durability values need a DRASTIC rework.

[jdoe33]

Your recommended, default durability values vs a 2500kg bomb hitting at least 1 of the buildings directly (Yellowish smoke at 0s you can see the impact point. 0 damage done. This is not how it's supposed to be. Either buff bomb damage or adjust durability values so we can have a THRESHOLD so you can't kill buildings with MG/Canon but they will more easily die to bombs. The state it is now in is unacceptable. 

https://gyazo.com/163edbd94f95e30e36b2878b0c438e87 this is the impact point. Every building on this picture should be dead at least. 

Edited January 4, 2022 by jdoe33

[jdoe33]

Here is the damage report https://gyazo.com/3bcdc3c43b5931c50207ec998249f1d4 

[[DBS]Browning]

It would be nice to get rid of durability values altogether. They really muddy the waters.

 

Against targets that don't use durability values, the bomb's effectiveness is entirely plausible.

It's also worth bearing in mind that even 1000kg bombs can fail to demolish buildings they land near, as in the photo below.

 

 

[jdoe33]

2 hours ago, [DBS]Browning said:

It would be nice to get rid of durability values altogether. They really muddy the waters.

 

Against targets that don't use durability values, the bomb's effectiveness is entirely plausible.

It's also worth bearing in mind that even 1000kg bombs can fail to demolish buildings they land near, as in the photo below.

 

 

This isn't really a discussion about realism. This is a discussion to give mission makers the freedom of deciding how realistic they want things to be. 

[[DBS]Browning]

Why not just have a single, uneditable durability value that works as intended.

[jdoe33]

30 minutes ago, [DBS]Browning said:

Why not just have a single, uneditable durability value that works as intended.

Because not every building is the same? A shockwave will have destructive effects on lighter targets and some buildings are more massive than others. AND not everyone wants the SUPER DUPER HYPER "realistic" bombs we have right now... Maybe somebody wants to have more arcade like bombable targets that are not destroyable by some tiny canon fire so level bombing is actually worth doing on some MP servers? 

Edited January 5, 2022 by jdoe33

[354thFG_Rails]

I think mission makers can already set durability values for targets? I think the problem you might be frustrated with right now is the damage model. The durability values might be fine altogether. There’s been a lot of discussion around this problem and the devs have said they will look at it again when they can. They are entirely focused on completing Normandy. Best you can do is sit and wait I guess. 

[jdoe33]

5 minutes ago, QB.Rails said:

I think mission makers can already set durability values for targets? I think the problem you might be frustrated with right now is the damage model. The durability values might be fine altogether. There’s been a lot of discussion around this problem and the devs have said they will look at it again when they can. They are entirely focused on completing Normandy. Best you can do is sit and wait I guess. 

The problem is lowering durability to make objects more vulnerable to bomb splash damage also makes them vulnerable to canon fire from planes. This thread is asking for an option (a checkbox for objects) to make them invulnerable to canon/MG fire. (Like it used to be pre Kuban). Why not add that threshold option back? 

Edited January 5, 2022 by jdoe33

[354thFG_Rails]

Interesting. I did not know that. 

[ITAF_Airone1989]

1 hour ago, [DBS]Browning said:

Why not just have a single, uneditable durability value that works as intended.

 

Absolutely this.

No sense to have this weird values... The only consequence is that I forgot to set the proper value ?

[[DBS]El_Marta]

Damage also depends on the fuze and trhe resulting height of function. Here is the way it was done in il2 FB 4.11:

Bomb fuzes

Bomb fuze feature is made in such a way that if the new "Bomb Fuzes" difficulty option is
turned off, bombs behave like in 4.09 (zero arming time). When diff. option is on, the arming
UI has extra fuze type selection box and available detonation delay values are limited to the
values available for the selected fuze.

Several historic fuzes are modelled and bombs now store a list of different fuzes that they can
use. Complexity is hidden from the user by grouping the fuzes to few different groups so user
doesn't need to learn several dozen of fuze names. Availability of fuzes even change by
mission date. User only needs to select type of the fuze needed for the bombing task he is
going to perform.


Instant

Required longer arming time/distance, but allows instant detonation (no long delays) or very
very short delay of 0.1-0.5 seconds. Typical fuze for med/high-alt level bombing.


Low level

These fuzes are armed very quickly but the safety comes from delay. Usually doesn't allow
delays below 4 seconds or so. Like the name says, these fuzes are suitable for low level
attacks, but don't allow instant detonation for pilot's safety.


Delay

Generic fuzes that allow longer delays and have medium arming times. Something between
types 1 & 2.


Long delay

Fuzes that allow very long delays like 90 seconds etc.
When player selects a loadout which has bomb, the fuze type selection box is populated with
the fuze types that are available for the selected bombs. Not all bombs have all different types
available. When the fuze selection is made, the fuze detonation delay selection box is
populated with the available values that the fuze supports. The actual fuze selection is made
automatically when the mission starts or user spawns in dogfight mission.

German electric fuzes are exception to this. These fuzes do not provide delay selection at all.
Fuze has three different modes that can be changed during flight. This requires a new mapping
at the controls menu. Available modes are "instant", "short delay" and "long delay".
Detonation delay & arming time depend of the actual fuze type that is selected automatically.
Electric fuze circuits work so that if the fuze fails to arm on instant or short delay mode, it
automatically reverts to long delay mode which needs lower arming time.


Generic fuze changes

In all previous IL-2 version, the selected detonation delay time was not propagated over the
network. So other players that were not the "owners" of the bomb would always see visual
effect of bomb exploding instantly when it hit ground. Actual invisible explosion (with killing
effect) could happen even ten seconds after. In 4.11 the delay and everything else related to
the bomb is propagated over network, so clients should see the effects in sync with the actual
explosion.

4.11 introduces some changes to the bomb's penetrating effect which is related to the
detonation delay. Bomb with instant detonation (zero delay) doesn't penetrate into ground or
into target that it might hit and therefore its explosion is little different than if it would dig into
ground/house/ship. Bomb digging into ground before exploding has slightly reduced "daisy
cutter" effect, so its power against ground units is slightly reduced. In general you want to
attack ground troops with zero delay or drop the bomb in so shallow angle that it doesn't dig
into ground. Against houses and ships the penetration is desired effect. Bomb explosion makes
more damage to confined space when it explodes inside it. Small bomb dropped on roof of a
house might do only superficial damage to the roof if it explodes immediately and house it not
destroyed. If the same bomb would penetrate the roof and explode inside the house,

destruction is much more probable.
 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2022 by [DBS]El_Marta

[[DBS]Browning]

8 hours ago, jdoe33 said:

Because not every building is the same?

I'm not suggesting every building should have the same value,just that each building should have only one value.

If you want an arcade mode for bombs,that should be in the difficulty settings.

[jdoe33]

On 1/6/2022 at 1:47 AM, [DBS]Browning said:

I'm not suggesting every building should have the same value,just that each building should have only one value.

If you want an arcade mode for bombs,that should be in the difficulty settings.

Sure, as long as I can't go and kill 20 CERTAIN buildings with the MG 151... Whatever floats their boat better.