Is TC worth it for a casual player with limited time?

[garym05]

The title pretty much says it all.  Back in the days of LB2, F4, Steel Beasts, etc (i.e 20 years ago) I had tons of time to sink into hardcore sims, and absolutely loved it.  Fast forward 2 decades and I've found that military sims are just amazing pieces of software that I could only dream about back then, but I conversely have much less time to devote to them.  I've just about given up on DCS as a result, but am loving the time I've spent flying in IL-2 GB so far, as it seems to hit the right combo of fun vs realism and approachability for me. 

 

I've dabbled off and on with learning more about the armored aspect of WW2, and while I read a lot of frustration on here, the 5 minutes or so that I've spent in VR in one of the tanks included in the flying modules has given me a great appreciation for even just the perspective of 'here's what it looked like to be on the ground in WW2 in all those stories you've read', even if I can't actually operate or fight in the tank for much of anything.    

 

So I'm curious as someone who has maybe an hour or two a week to devote to something like this - is TC on sale at $40 going to be worth it to just drive a tank around and marvel at the scenery, or am I not likely to even be able to learn the basics of operation in that time to be able to enjoy it?  I want to support the developers in this work they're doing, but even $40 on sale is a lot of money for a game that I may put less than 10 hours into ever.  Any thoughts from the group?

[Na-zdorovie]

yes defiantly, its very easy to just drop in for a quick blast, controls are easy and not many, and i recommend the 182 campaign by TIGER itl give you tons to do, and if ya get stuck just shout out

and welcome

[Avimimus]

I've been enjoying it in the quick mission builder so far. Just use terrain to force enemy armour to get to engage at close range (if they have bigger guns or less armour than you). That said, the Russian SPGs are quite effective if you start firing at 2 kilometres... so they effectively out-range (the AI at least).

[ShampooX]

Maybe War Thunder is better for you. Less time needed to get right to the shooting. And free. 

 

01/05 edit: yeah thank you all for realizing I was not trying to be a dick here with the WT comment.  Although many of us look down on the game, it does have it's benefits.  Excellent models, great graphics and fast play/short matches among them.  So my comment was totally along that line of thinking.  Thats about it however - the more you play WT the more you begin to hate it and then TC -and specifically The FVP Server- becomes well worth the additional time required to master. LOL

Edited January 5, 2022 by Jawbreaker1-6

[No_Face]

I agree with @MrLarry-Actual, War Thunder should be more in line with your availability.

Personally, I only play TC in multiplayer mode, I find the single player mode uninteresting (roughly speaking) and I feel that if I have 1h before me, then it will be a small game. (because it already takes 30 minutes to reach the objective)

Oh, and I should mention that recommending War Thunder is in no way insulting ?

 

(I specify because some do not really want to hear about it since it is an arcade game)

Edited January 3, 2022 by No_Face

[LachenKrieg]

22 hours ago, garym05 said:

So I'm curious as someone who has maybe an hour or two a week to devote to something like this - is TC on sale at $40 going to be worth it to just drive a tank around and marvel at the scenery, or am I not likely to even be able to learn the basics of operation in that time to be able to enjoy it?  I want to support the developers in this work they're doing, but even $40 on sale is a lot of money for a game that I may put less than 10 hours into ever.  Any thoughts from the group?

TBH, I have uninstalled the game and only brows the forum to follow along in case there's ever a reason to start again.

 

To add to the responses you got so far though, regardless of whether you plan on spending 10 hours or ten thousand, if your looking for a real WWII tank SIM, then you are likely going to be disappointed with Tank Crew at one point or another. If you want to support the Dev team, then that's a different issue, but you should learn to think of it as more of a "fantasy SIM" to keep your expectations inline with what you will be getting.

 

But if you don't plan on spending more than 10 hours ever, and the main point was just to drive around for the scenery, then why pay $40 when you could buy a collector vehicle on sale for $15 to do the same thing? Especially if $40 is a lot of money to you. Not sure how much scenery you will take in though with just 10 hours because the maps are pretty big.

[garym05]

Thanks very much to all for the suggestions and recommendations - this is all VERY helpful!  I think my plan at this point will be to enjoy the vehicles that I already have outside of TC, and maybe buy a collector vehicle as suggested, and enjoy from there at my own pace.  If I find myself wanting more, I'll take a look at War Thunder for now (I appreciate the comment that such a recommendation isn't intended as an insult lol).

 

Thanks again to all - Happy New Year!

[[KG]Destaex]

10 hours ago, garym05 said:

Thanks very much to all for the suggestions and recommendations - this is all VERY helpful!  I think my plan at this point will be to enjoy the vehicles that I already have outside of TC, and maybe buy a collector vehicle as suggested, and enjoy from there at my own pace.  If I find myself wanting more, I'll take a look at War Thunder for now (I appreciate the comment that such a recommendation isn't intended as an insult lol).

 

Thanks again to all - Happy New Year!

Just for the record. I do think that war thunder is an arcade game even if it has good physics. Simply because of the TO&E in each battle being nothing like reality and because nobody plays the sim mode they have. People will tell you that you can play historical modes/scenarios etc but in the most commonly played modes, you will most likely end up facing Tiger I tanks off with modern tanks because "balance".

 

As for Tank Crew. I have a love hate relationship with it. It does give me the feeling of being in a tank and suspends my disbelief enough. I can open all the hatches and look through all the vision ports, use the gun sights, which war thunder does not. I can also download a lot of missions and play them if I want (or make them myself). Which War Thunder does not. So many things in Tank Crew are done so well, in line with the standards of the light sim that is il2 BOS. At the same time Tank Crew disappoints me because it will probably never get the attention that a top ww2 tank sim in it's genre needs to be great or at least approach older games like panzer elite. Thus we have a quandry, we have il2 Tank Crew which is probably the best ww2 sim we have currently. But we also have il2 Tank Crew which is missing some things older tank sims had as well as never approaching being anything ground breaking for the genre. 

 

So as much as I love Tank Crew. It's missing things, often because of the engine being geared for aircraft players. Things like infantry, it's supposed to be coming but it's been years since the devs said this and when it does come I expect it to be "window dressing" rather than a full blown feature. I expect the devs will struggle just to get that happening. Gunnery Physics, this seems to be lacking in that shells hit things and the effects are not realistic at all. Their appears to be no damage model for anything but tanks and even then your shell might appear to go through a tank before the game realises it should be dead. Drivers Position - This is poorly modelled, basically you are not simulating the clutch or any of the other controls for this position, just the forward key will do you. You can change gears manually but I don't think you really have any of the problems a real ww2 tanker would have had. Like needing to use a hammer to change gears in some T-34s! 

 

But then Tank Crew can surprise you with insane attention to detail which is really cool. Like overheating the engine if you drive a MKIV too fast down a hill. Or being able to see how awkward it was for some positions to get to their hatches. Even the dirt on crews faces or being poisoned when the fume extractor fans fail.

I get the impression that where they could, the contractors did well with what they had. Except when it came to the things the contractors could not change like the engine they of course could do nothing. Thus the Tanks themselves are really cool, but the world the tanks are in is pretty much the standard existing flight simulation stuff which is ok seen from the air. I mean their is a tank map which is much more detailed and aircraft flying over will chug on. But in general all the ground assets are just 1990s clunky waypoint driven stuff. No real AI to be had. 

 

If you only have an hour. Then you can do a single player mission in il2 Tank Crew fairly easily. But yes you could do a War Thunder arcade skirmish as well. In the end War Thunder may claim the same amount of money from you as well. Tank Crew comes with 10 ww2 tanks iirc. All simulated pretty well. That is a few dollars per tank. If you are curious about how each ww2 tank worked then tank crew is much better than war thunder. If you just want to fire a big cannon at stuff without learning that much, then War Thunder is better. War Thunder also has a tendency to make you grind and spend more time than you would want.

 

Another good thing about Tank Crew if you are playing single player is you don't have to wait in a queue like you do in War Thunder. Not sure what War Thunder is like for population these days though.

One day. I hope to see a DCS quality Tank Sim. Where absolutely every system and support element are simulated including the infantry. We had that in Steel Bests Pro PE - they had refueling vehicles and recovery vehicles and infantry. Funny thing was they had aircraft as an afterthought iirc. Where I guess an advantage and disadvantage in il2 tank crew is that aircraft players have light simulations of aircraft to play along side you.

Tank Crew does have refuelling btw. It also has a way of doing your own recovery by having you turn off the engine and open the commanders hatch which starts a repair..,... which can be a few minutes for a broken track to a very long time for a lot of other things. So abstracted rather than simulated. But functional in the multiplayer scheme of things. In single player I guess they expect you would just restart or utilise the multiplayeresque field repair function. Unfortunately unlike men of war assault squad 2 you don't see the crew going around repairing the tank. These human elements are what is missing and what keeps tank crew closer to it's flight sim roots. Getting out of the tank would be good for recon for instance... can't do that in the air so why enable it for the ground? 

 

Having said all of this. I appreciate that we have this game at all. Tank Crew was probably a risk taken on what was originally just a community mod?

Edited January 4, 2022 by [KG]Destaex

[SCG_Neun]

This is a good review on the game if you have time, take a look.  Note: there have been multiple improvements since this review and a couple new vehicles as well.

 

 

 

On 1/2/2022 at 2:13 PM, garym05 said:

The title pretty much says it all.  Back in the days of LB2, F4, Steel Beasts, etc (i.e 20 years ago) I had tons of time to sink into hardcore sims, and absolutely loved it.  Fast forward 2 decades and I've found that military sims are just amazing pieces of software that I could only dream about back then, but I conversely have much less time to devote to them.  I've just about given up on DCS as a result, but am loving the time I've spent flying in IL-2 GB so far, as it seems to hit the right combo of fun vs realism and approachability for me. 

 

I've dabbled off and on with learning more about the armored aspect of WW2, and while I read a lot of frustration on here, the 5 minutes or so that I've spent in VR in one of the tanks included in the flying modules has given me a great appreciation for even just the perspective of 'here's what it looked like to be on the ground in WW2 in all those stories you've read', even if I can't actually operate or fight in the tank for much of anything.    

 

So I'm curious as someone who has maybe an hour or two a week to devote to something like this - is TC on sale at $40 going to be worth it to just drive a tank around and marvel at the scenery, or am I not likely to even be able to learn the basics of operation in that time to be able to enjoy it?  I want to support the developers in this work they're doing, but even $40 on sale is a lot of money for a game that I may put less than 10 hours into ever.  Any thoughts from the group?

There is not a steep learning curve within TC and you will enjoy the features available for the 40 dollars spent, so you will be able to learn the basics and enjoy the full features of the game.  Just think of it as a night out at the movies, with a coke and some popcorn, only this will last you for hours and hours. If you are a true historian I can't think of a better simulation for getting the feel of WWII armored combat.  The best immersion is in multiplayer closed server type missions, and you are always welcome to join us once you get the hang of the game.  Artillery raining down.....T34 racing across an open field with prowling IL2's above, what's not to like?  Single player within the game is something I have very little experience with so I bow to the others input, but I know it's a great place to learn the strenghs and weaknesses of the historically modeled tanks available.  I know you really don't want to just drive around and look at the scenery...right? 

Edited January 4, 2022 by SCG_Neun

[LachenKrieg]

7 hours ago, SCG_Neun said:

This is a good review on the game if you have time, take a look.

That is a very good review, and like most everything else he puts up, well worth watching. There are a lot of good things that could be said about Tank Crew, like detail in the 3D models, but there are also a number of unexplainable issues that the Dev team seemed to be very reluctant to address, even after being repeatedly pointed to by the modules fans.

 

I haven't played Tank Crew in months so I don't know if it is something that has already been addressed, but a good example of this can be seen at about 1:48 in the time line where you see a Pz IV  taking hits as it drives through the battle field with its gun locked. While that may have been that real players preference in that instance, the last time I played I had very little control over whether the tanks in my platoon were battle ready.

 

But other than the invisible trees, the main issue with Tank Crew for me is the armor/gun model. His claims at about 7:20 and 13:05 in the time line are far from being accurate and actually contradict each other. Good gunnery and positioning should be rewarded, but in Tank Crew, it depends what tank you are in. There is nothing more disappointing than spending 20 minutes driving and positioning yourself, then getting luck enough to spot the enemy first, then putting 2, 3, 4, and sometimes 5+ rounds through him at close range with a gun that could historically do it, only to be one-timed once he finds you. 

 

I find it hard to see how you can expect anyone to learn the strengths and weaknesses of any tank in that scenario.     

[SCG_Neun]

I tend to fall back on someone like SCG's JudgeDeath, Vonalba and SchleiferGER to confirm this but I believe overall the tank modeling and ballistics pan out for the most part in representing the historical strengths and weaknesses of the vehicles represented within the game.  I know there has been plenty of frustration at one time or another in encountering someone who seems to place that magic shot somehow after you have given away your position and hit him more than once, but in the long run taking many encounters into factoring an overall opinion of the game, I come up with historical satisfaction, albeit not foolproof, reliable enough to enjoy fully in all of our missions.  I don't play single player much but the times I have I agree seeing the locked position on the MKIV's while in battle does take away from the immersion.  There are plenty of other things as well which aren't perfect, but everytime I research and try out something else, I have to just come back to TC.

 

I never really do videos on damage but just an example of frontal armor, verses side angles, from pak38 on a sherman.  I did this one to show our guys who were mounting up in the Sherman......approach on AT position and lethality of Pak38.  I thought the damage modeling was pretty darn good, but then again I don't know the specifics just that general feel for acceptable.  When it comes to charts and graphs, I stay out of the way.....

 

Here's one I did showing my demise in that invincible Tiger, with it's 88 just the terror of the open steppes as we are just pummeling Soviet targets at extreme range....which gets wasted by the hidden sis2 down in the valley with a side shot.  Plenty of times we've used the T34 and it's fantastic overland speed and agility to outflank a position and so on and so on.  Thank goodness they didn't model the dependability of the Panther from mechanical mishaps...or we'd really be in trouble.  I'd give the game a "two thumbs up" but I lost one of my thumbs in that explosion. 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2022 by SCG_Neun

[LachenKrieg]

Not sure what your falling back on there, but for clarity's sake, my contribution here is not an attempt to sway people away from the module. Like you, I was answering to someones question from my point of view.

 

I understand You have put together a good group of guys, and your able to get a lot of enjoyment out of the IL2 series. I think that's great. I was initially getting a lot of enjoyment out of Tank Crew myself, and tried to support the modules growth in the ways that I could.

 

The issues of gun/armor performance were not there from the start. I used Tank Crew for nearly a year before this issue cropped up, and I'm not talking about a lucky shot. This was so repeatable for me that the game was not playable anymore. I went from being one of the modules biggest supporters, to seeing no value in adding to what I unfortunately had already invested in. I wouldn't think that is a trend they would want to see continue normally.

 

So  for me it was never about thinking this tank, or that tank is invincible. There was no such thing as an invincible tank in WWII. The issue that you got knocked out in a Tiger with a single shot is not even related to the problem actually because as you said, it is what you would expect. But the issue that materialized was not.  It is hard to watch the videos others have put up here, or my own for that matter, while using your sentiments of what feels generally acceptable.

[Frinik22]

My own two cents. If you are thinking of spending $ 40.00 to play at most 2 hours a week I would say don't do it. A simulator or simulation are by definition things you need to invest a lot of time and patience to fully reap the rewards. While TC, as pointed out, does not have a steep learning curve investing $ 40.00 for the little palytime oyu have is  waste of money in my opinion. I would say the same about any simulator you are considering purchasing. I purchased the game on special as well and I haven't spent more than 10 hours playing it. But I can afford the purchase and I bought it for the  long term as I can see myself playing it  in the future even if it's not intensively. Hopefully more content and improvements will be invested by  Studio1C.

 

For you if you can barely invest 2 hours a week i would recommend purchasing Steel Fury Kharkov 1942 currently on sale at Steam for a very cheap price( $2.99). It's an older sim( 2008)  but well made, the graphics are not bad and it's fun and I have played for over 13 years . The learning curve is not to steep and the game is a lot of mods available and a alrge variety of armoured vehicles and missions. I would say buy Tank Crew if you are purchasing, like me, for the long term and can invest more time in it.

[SCG_Neun]

4 hours ago, LachenKrieg said:

Not sure what your falling back on there, but for clarity's sake, my contribution here is not an attempt to sway people away from the module. Like you, I was answering to someones question from my point of view.

 

I understand You have put together a good group of guys, and your able to get a lot of enjoyment out of the IL2 series. I think that's great. I was initially getting a lot of enjoyment out of Tank Crew myself, and tried to support the modules growth in the ways that I could.

 

The issues of gun/armor performance were not there from the start. I used Tank Crew for nearly a year before this issue cropped up, and I'm not talking about a lucky shot. This was so repeatable for me that the game was not playable anymore. I went from being one of the modules biggest supporters, to seeing no value in adding to what I unfortunately had already invested in. I wouldn't think that is a trend they would want to see continue normally.

 

So  for me it was never about thinking this tank, or that tank is invincible. There was no such thing as an invincible tank in WWII. The issue that you got knocked out in a Tiger with a single shot is not even related to the problem actually because as you said, it is what you would expect. But the issue that materialized was not.  It is hard to watch the videos others have put up here, or my own for that matter, while using your sentiments of what feels generally acceptable.

Well I'm just giving my assessment and it wasn't neccessarily directed to you personally.  What I am falling back on is the overall consensus from many of us that the game is very good and I just happened to have a couple of videos from the past showing the realistic result from combat that the game models.  Perfection, for 40/80 dollars is not realistic, but I challenge anyone to show me a better WWII tank sim than TC, because if it's out there, I really want to play it.  

 

 

[Thad]

11 minutes ago, SCG_Neun said:

Well I'm just giving my assessment and it wasn't neccessarily directed to you personally.  What I am falling back on is the overall consensus from many of us that the game is very good and I just happened to have a couple of videos from the past showing the realistic result from combat that the game models.  Perfection, for 40/80 dollars is not realistic, but I challenge anyone to show me a better WWII tank sim than TC, because if it's out there, I really want to play it.  

 

 

 

Salutations,

 

I agree "that the game is very good" and I would like to bring up the developers actual history of continually tweaking and improving all of their products. I trust said improvements will continue with TC.

[DD_Friar]

I have Tank Crew and may only play it for a few hours on a Friday night on Advance and Secure or Finish Virtual and also on a Saturday with my squad mates (usually running missions I have built) but the amount of fun I have in those few hours in my opinion is worth every penny/cent/euro.

[SCG_Neun]

15 minutes ago, DD_Friar said:

I have Tank Crew and may only play it for a few hours on a Friday night on Advance and Secure or Finish Virtual and also on a Saturday with my squad mates (usually running missions I have built) but the amount of fun I have in those few hours in my opinion is worth every penny/cent/euro.

This is the same for us as well in SCG, and some from JG1 and JV44 that also join in for the action every week as well.  I think the question of cost is a tough one to answer since it relates to income and so many other circumstances.  I just tried to show that for the cost of a movie night out, you can have hours of fun in a really good sim, even if you have to take those hours....2 at a time.  

[wetbandets1Popason]

2 hours ago, SCG_Neun said:

Well I'm just giving my assessment and it wasn't neccessarily directed to you personally.  What I am falling back on is the overall consensus from many of us that the game is very good and I just happened to have a couple of videos from the past showing the realistic result from combat that the game models.  Perfection, for 40/80 dollars is not realistic, but I challenge anyone to show me a better WWII tank sim than TC, because if it's out there, I really want to play it.  

 

 

I'm a newbee and I need help without hours of reading. I need to print out or get a manual on the tank commands or key board commands. How to start it run it and aim and shoot. any help would be appreciated. csveirs@verizon.net

I'm a newbie and I need help without hours of reading. I need to print out or get a manual on the tank commands or key board commands. How to start it run it and aim and shoot. any help would be appreciated. csveirs@verizon.net if you could please email me because I'll never find this page again.

[javelina]

2 hours ago, wetbandets1Popason said:

I'm a newbee and I need help without hours of reading. I need to print out or get a manual on the tank commands or key board commands. How to start it run it and aim and shoot. any help would be appreciated. csveirs@verizon.net

I'm a newbie and I need help without hours of reading. I need to print out or get a manual on the tank commands or key board commands. How to start it run it and aim and shoot. any help would be appreciated. csveirs@verizon.net if you could please email me because I'll never find this page again.

click on the "Tanks and AAA Vehicles" section, good info there:

 

 

[LachenKrieg]

5 hours ago, SCG_Neun said:

Well I'm just giving my assessment and it wasn't neccessarily directed to you personally.  What I am falling back on is the overall consensus from many of us that the game is very good and I just happened to have a couple of videos from the past showing the realistic result from combat that the game models.  Perfection, for 40/80 dollars is not realistic, but I challenge anyone to show me a better WWII tank sim than TC, because if it's out there, I really want to play it.  

 

 

I would gladly take you up on your challenge, but answering it would only be subjective so I don't really see the point. Luckily for me though, there are other WWII armored simulations out there.

 

And even though I personally wouldn't recommend Tank Crew today, I still hope that might change for tomorrow because as Thad said, the Dev team behind it is known for continually updating their products. I wouldn't be following this forum if I didn't have a genuine interest in what Tank Crew could be.

 

[garym05]

Quick update on this thread - thanks very much for the feedback and thoughts...it was all very helpful!  I ultimately decided to buy Tank Crew on the last day of the sale, and even though I've only launched it once so far and just spent a few minutes driving around, I'm very glad to have picked it up and am looking forward to digging in a bit and enjoying it however much I can.  I appreciate games like this which help to show just a bit of what it actually looked like in the battles I've spent so much time reading and learning about throughout my life, and I ultimately decided it was a great deal to get this content at the price of $4 per tank.

 

Thanks again to all - I'm looking forward to learning more about how to use and operate the vehicles and engage in the scenarios! 

[No_Face]

6 hours ago, garym05 said:

 I ultimately decided it was a great deal to get this content at the price of $4 per tank.

It is true that seen from this angle, it is acceptable. ?

[LachenKrieg]

16 hours ago, garym05 said:

Quick update on this thread - thanks very much for the feedback and thoughts...it was all very helpful!  I ultimately decided to buy Tank Crew on the last day of the sale, and even though I've only launched it once so far and just spent a few minutes driving around, I'm very glad to have picked it up and am looking forward to digging in a bit and enjoying it however much I can.  I appreciate games like this which help to show just a bit of what it actually looked like in the battles I've spent so much time reading and learning about throughout my life, and I ultimately decided it was a great deal to get this content at the price of $4 per tank.

 

Thanks again to all - I'm looking forward to learning more about how to use and operate the vehicles and engage in the scenarios! 

Good luck. Hope it works out better for you then it did for me.

[Voidhunger]

LachenKrieg, you have to be positive. It will improve over time. I hope you preordered new collector vehicles?

Lets hope for some changes and improvements to damage model with the release of the new tanks.

 

 

[moustache]

that's true, the bugs that have not been fixed (for more than a year for some...), the little official content, the absent AI for subscribers... all of this should make you believe in the future Lachenkrieg, I do not understand...

[NoelGallagher]

On 1/6/2022 at 10:24 AM, LachenKrieg said:

I would gladly take you up on your challenge, but answering it would only be subjective so I don't really see the point. Luckily for me though, there are other WWII armored simulations out there.

 

And even though I personally wouldn't recommend Tank Crew today, I still hope that might change for tomorrow because as Thad said, the Dev team behind it is known for continually updating their products. I wouldn't be following this forum if I didn't have a genuine interest in what Tank Crew could be.

 

the point is not about improvement 

they release the product alsmost unfnished manner

and after one years of initial release 

there were a lot of escential things that should have been immediately addressed has been bluntly igonred(nor did they communicate with community at all about the problems - relatively to aircraft side which they communicate and respond exetremely well)

if this was some kind of tank interior and track physics simulator 

we can say TC is excellent in current form

but if we see it as tank combat simulator it still looks and feels like it's in BETA stage

Edited January 24, 2022 by NoelGallagher

[Voidhunger]

Well there is only one team working on 3 titles. BON and FC2 will ready around summer so im expecting some changes with the release of the new collector vehicles when the team has more time.

[LachenKrieg]

If we were talking about a bug, then yeah I could agree with your point about waiting for improvement. But I'm not sure we can call a change in the way gun/armor worked a year after I purchased the product a bug.

 

The change didn't just alter the way mouse input works as you traverse the turret, or keep your gun locked while you drive around the BF. SIM software is intended to be used as a training tool, but its a little hard to learn when the thing your being taught is wrong. 

 

But I understand your enthusiasm, and I'm happy at this point to just wait and see.

[Voidhunger]

well dmg model for BOX was changed/improved many times from release of BOS.

I think we will see some improvements also. I will wait for the release of collectors plane and after that i will be sceptical too.