p-51B/C

[MeoW.Scharfi]

39 minutes ago, CUJO_1970 said:

Cool, ignore what you don't want to hear, don't read and remain uninformed.

 

Ironic.

[ACG_Cass]

2 hours ago, CUJO_1970 said:

AIR 51/373, It's from 28 March 1944 most likely.

Pretty big gap between that and the 27th of September. It seems odd that the USAAF just didn't bother during that period to try and get it to work. Especially considering there were other units that flew them for longer.

On 1/7/2022 at 4:05 PM, CUJO_1970 said:

"The 479th flew it's last P-38 mission on 27 September, terminating the Lightning's service as a fighter with the 8th Air Force"

Roger Freeman p.186

 

2 hours ago, CUJO_1970 said:

So yes - when we ask for P-38J-25 that we have in the sim to have 150 octane fuel, we are asking for something that never happened. This is likely why the developers never included it in the first place. It's like asking to add 1.98 ata on G-14 which never got that rating either.

So this is the new hurdle. The specific series of plane did not fly with it. If you could enlighten us as to the vast performance changes that occurred between the -10, -15 and -25 P38J series that make it beyond reasonable to merit the modelled P38 with 150 Octane that would be dandy. G14 to K4 was a pretty comprehensive redesign to house an upgraded engine, I don't think that's relevant.

 

150 Octane in the P38 certainly wasn't a common occurance and was for a fairly brief period of time. But I'd wager the flight hours far exceed other modifications we have in the sim.

 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by ACG_Cass

[purK]

1 hour ago, CUJO_1970 said:

 

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/150grade/welsh-bradley.jpg

 

(Speaking of unbelievable official documents)

 

Also at this time P-38J fighter numbers in the 8th AF were dwindling rapidly - already by August 22 there were 74 and then by 19 September there were only 50. Also: none of these (zero) were P-38J-25, they were J-5/10/15 only. Our P-38J-25 was never flown by 479th, or in 8th AF at all, never tested with 150 octane fuel.

 

That document states March 10th, 3 months before the document I already posted which is dated June 13th, and confirms deliveries of 150 octane fuel to Station 377 Wattisham on June 10th, where the 479th was based. Surely they didn't let all this fuel go to waste.

Despite the main shipment being lost, P38J5/10/15s were still retrofitted with dive flaps etc when they were available, which made them more similar to a J25 than anything.

Lets also not forget about the P38J20, most definitely used by the 8th AF and more specifically the 479th. It featured a modified turbo regulator, likely intended to reduce some of the P38s high altitude problems, potentially allowing for an even more successful use of 150 octane.

[CountZero]

Didnt bather to check but im sure P-51B-5 used all the mods we have now, it has to be, no way we would get mods that dont fit that exact block number lol  yes yeeess block number is whats stoping 150 mod for P-38 ... 

[[CPT]Crunch]

I thought we had a 9th AF P-38?  No mention at all about what was going on with P-38's in action in the Pacific either...  Only the 8th was relevant?  That's a stretch if I've ever seen one.

[AndytotheD]

As far as I’m aware the 8th Air Force got the hottest toys; they really needed it. The P-38s in the PTO in particular almost always outclassed their opponents. 

[Alexmarine]

9 minutes ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

I thought we had a 9th AF P-38?  

 

Technically there is no real difference, afterall our 51 and 47s so far are also 9th AF only but we got the 150 fuel that 8th AF birds got. With Normandy coming and 8th AF units definitely appearing in career there will be no real argument for keeping them separate

[LukeFF]

2 minutes ago, Alexmarine said:

Technically there is no real difference, afterall our 51 and 47s so far are also 9th AF only but we got the 150 fuel that 8th AF birds got. With Normandy coming and 8th AF units definitely appearing in career there will be no real argument for keeping them separate

 

The USAAF units in career mode will all be 9th AF. That said, I see no problem with the addition of 150 grade fuel for those types, since the 8th AF obviously flew over both the Rhineland and Normandy maps.

[Alexmarine]

13 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

The USAAF units in career mode will all be 9th AF. 

 

Really? I was under the impression that 8th AF flew some sorties in support of the invasion so we could have seen them as playable units in the career ?

[CUJO_1970]

17 hours ago, CountZero said:

 whats stoping 150 mod for P-38 ... 

 

1. Their were no P-38J-25 in 8th AF.

2. No P-38J-25 ever got 150 grade fuel.

3. 9th AF groups on continent did not use 150 grade.

 

And this is likely the reason the developers didn't do it in the first place.

 

19 hours ago, MeoW.Scharfi said:

 

Ironic.

 

No P-38J-25 ever operated on 150 octane, or even in the 8th AF. The 9th AF requested, and was denied the use of 150 octane.

 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

I thought we had a 9th AF P-38?  No mention at all about what was going on with P-38's in action in the Pacific either...  Only the 8th was relevant?  That's a stretch if I've ever seen one.

 

Yes, when it comes to 150 octane, only the 8th AF is relevant for the P-38. Our P-38 did not serve in the 8th AF. Nor did it use 150 octane.

 

150 octane was not used in 9th AF, or in the Pacific.

[DD_Fenrir]

1 hour ago, Alexmarine said:

 

Really? I was under the impression that 8th AF flew some sorties in support of the invasion so we could have seen them as playable units in the career ?

But their home bases may not be as most will be too far north to be on the map. 

[purK]

You're still completely ignoring the fact that our P51B in game has several different modifications from different blocks, yet is still labeled as a B-5 in game. This is true for many other aircraft in the game as well, they are meant to represent several different variations of the same aircraft.

You're also ignoring the fact that some sub-J25 block P38s were fitted with dive flaps etc when the kits were available, making them closer to a J25 than anything.

Also ignoring the fact that there were documented deliveries of 150 octane to airfields basing P38s.

Also ignoring the fact that P38s were confirmed to be running on at least 65 inches, and potentially 70 inches, after you claimed they were never used above 60 inches.

It really is ironic that you refuse to accept such official data, coming from somebody who called the D9s speeds "complete nonsense" because you didn't know about the engine mass regulator. You also called the P51B top speeds nonsense, when it matches the official tests within a 3% error margin. It's clear that you have no willingness to accept any new evidence, and refute it just for the sake of doing so. Don't be so close minded.

Edited January 9, 2022 by Krupnski

[Alexmarine]

6 minutes ago, DD_Fenrir said:

But their home bases may not be as most will be too far north to be on the map. 

 

Tbf, not sure about bases but wouldn't have been strange to see them on map but not playable: in the Rhineland campaign we have several Luftwaffe units, inside the map boundaries, that were under the Reich Air Defense command. They aren't playable, so I guess it is something more related to the missions they flew than just not being present (though I admit I don't know how the projected Normandy map sits with the historical 8th AF fighter airfields)

[Gambit21]

2 hours ago, Alexmarine said:

 

Really? I was under the impression that 8th AF flew some sorties in support of the invasion so we could have seen them as playable units in the career ?

 

Aye, they did...and we should.

For instance a 352nd career over the Normandy map is more than possible. (with alternate base) It wouldn’t span the same number of weeks, but doable and should be an option. (I mean 8th AF, not necessarily 352nd as again Bodney is not on the map)

 

Point is there were quite a few 8th AF units that flew these missions I’m guessing. I haven’t read histories on all of them however.

Edited January 9, 2022 by Gambit21

[Denum]

1 hour ago, Krupnski said:

You're still completely ignoring the fact that our P51B in game has several different modifications from different blocks,

Alot of people don't realize this I think 

 

 

The Lagg for example with the 37mm is a Lagg 3-34, 23mm is closer to a Lagg 3-8. 

 

Elliptical Spitfire is IXe, clipped is IXc. 

 

 

[Jaws2002]

12 minutes ago, Denum said:

Elliptical Spitfire is IXe, clipped is IXc. 

 

It has nothing to do with the shape of the wing. It's about weapons.

 

IXc means 2x20mm + 4x.303

IXe means 2x20mm + 2x.50 cal.

Edited January 9, 2022 by Jaws2002

[AndytotheD]

More realistically the RP-3s would be removed from the Spitfire as they were never used operationally IIRC. 

[Denum]

18 minutes ago, Jaws2002 said:

 

It has nothing to do with the shape of the wing. It's about weapons.

 

IXc means 2x20mm + 4x.303

IXe means 2x20mm + 2x.50 cal.

 

 

I dun goofed.

 

Yeah there's A B C D E wings and then there's L LF HF FR Spitfires.

 

Was thinking LFs for some reason as quite a few had clipped wings. 

 

I'd love to see the extended wing tips for IX and XIV ?

 

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by Denum

[MisterSmith]

Alright,

 

Enough,

 

We have veered way off course now and are still taking passive aggressive shots at one another. Locking this one for some cleanup. Take the P-38, Spitfire, and 150 octane conversations to the appropriate threads or start new ones of their own if that is more appropriate.

 

Smith