Update from devs on wing fixes

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

Why is it nobody flies the D12?    

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

Cause it sucks.  Cant turn or dive. Paper Mache wings. Only good for chasing 2 seaters and bombers. 

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

22 minutes ago, J5_Klugermann said:

Cause it sucks.  Cant turn or dive. Paper Mache wings. Only good for chasing 2 seaters and bombers. 

Paper Mache wings you say?   Maybe there is a problem with wing strength after all??

[J2_Bidu]

Entente pilots dive down for safety, Central pilots float down for safety... 

 

We can all sink or we all float

Cause we're all in the same big boat

[BMA_Hellbender]

3 hours ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

I doubt that. The thing with the S.E.5a is it is faster than anything central has. You can dictate the fight and engage and disengage as you please. If you screw up you can always dive for safety. If you have a wingman things get even easier. It is a different flying than with central planes I give you that but it is really not brutally unbalanced as you make it out to be. You just have to use your aircraft to it's strenght and exploit the weakness of the enemies plane. I would go out and say getting a 20 kill streak in an Albatros or Pfalz D.XII is way harder than with a Spad or an S.E.5a. Also you can not always bail out in central planes as you say. You can only use your chut over your own territory. Bailing out over enemy territory gets you nowhere. But you can always dive for safety in the fast entente planes no matter where you are.

 

The S.E.5a is fastest in a straight line at sea level, but it's not as solid at diving as a SPAD nor does it accelerate as fast in a dive. It certainly doesn't accelerate as fast as a D.VIIF and the speed delta is only about 20km/h, not enough to put any sizeable distance between yourself and its set of Spandaus.

 

The best of both worlds could have potentially been the Sopwith Dolphin, since it can just about outturn a D.VIIF and has sufficient speed advantage over the Dr.I, but its ridiculously fragile wings do it in. Likely the Snipe will end up being just that: a much better climbing, slightly better turning, slightly slower Dolphin with less fragile wings (we can hope).

 

I agree that both the Albatros D.Va and Pfalz D.XII are problem children. Well, the D.XII is untouchable above 3000m, but that's about it. The fact that it can't dive at all without getting rudder flutter strikes me as unintentional.

Edited May 3, 2022 by Hellbender

[J99_Sizzlorr]

12 minutes ago, Hellbender said:

 

The S.E.5a is fastest in a straight line at sea level, but it's not as solid at diving as a SPAD nor does it accelerate as fast in a dive. It certainly doesn't accelerate as fast as D.VIIF and the speed delta is only about 20km/h, not enough to put any sizeable distance between yourself and its set of Vickers.

 

The best of both worlds could have potentially been the Sopwith Dolphin, since it can just about outturn a D.VIIF and has sufficient speed advantage over the Dr.I, but its ridiculously fragile wings do it in. Likely the Snipe will end up being just that: a much better climbing, slightly better turning, slightly slower Dolphin with less fragile wings (we can hope).

 

I agree that both the Albatros D.Va and Pfalz D.XII are problem children. Well, the D.XII is untouchable above 3000m, but that's about it. The fact that it can't dive at all without getting rudder flutter strikes me as unintentional.

The Spad might be better in a dive than the S.E.5a but the S.E.5a still dives better than anything central has at it's disposal. I did outdive many Fokker D.VIIFs in my S.E.5a. Heck you don't even need to dive to get away. Even if the D.VIIF accelerates faster it can not sustain the dive as long as the S.E.5a it will start fluttering and your engine will overrev even if you turn it off and you will lose control surfaces if you try to dive after the S.E.5a with it's full potential.

Edited May 3, 2022 by J99_Sizzlorr

[No.23_Starling]

3 hours ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

I doubt that. The thing with the S.E.5a is it is faster than anything central has. You can dictate the fight and engage and disengage as you please. If you screw up you can always dive for safety. If you have a wingman things get even easier. It is a different flying than with central planes I give you that but it is really not brutally unbalanced as you make it out to be. You just have to use your aircraft to it's strenght and exploit the weakness of the enemies plane. I would go out and say getting a 20 kill streak in an Albatros or Pfalz D.XII is way harder than with a Spad or an S.E.5a. Also you can not always bail out in central planes as you say. You can only use your chut over your own territory. Bailing out over enemy territory gets you nowhere. But you can always dive for safety in the fast entente planes no matter where you are.

We are going to have to agree to disagree. No need for false modesty - you are one of the best online MP pilots I know who has put in 1000s of hours, and as a result your experience is very different to the average player.

 

If the Dolphin or SE5a takes wing hits, even diving away has to be gentle and practiced, plus if you’re not going fast enough or have enough separation from the bandit they can still kill you shooting after you - the DVIIF isn’t that much slower. In the Camel, dogfighting becomes dangerous in the vertical after hits, and the fight goes from being focused on the bandit to managing the DM. Artun and others have found ways to work around the DM in this case but it’s not a problem the Fokker has. The Dr1 on the other hand can pull insane Gs after tons of hits and will even fly after losing half a wing. We have all seen that more than once - if that’s not unbalanced then I’m not sure what you consider fair.
 

Basically, what youre suggesting is that Camel pilots should just put up with ahistorical Dr1 tanks and fragile wings ruining their dogfights, despite the Dr1 historically suffering wing failures due to construction issues. Then on the SE5 we should all fly it like a paper bf109 with no cannon and never get into a dogfight? Sounds great fun? Not for most people who haven’t put in your hours. Hardly the ‘ace maker’.
 

In the DXII you can and should climb away from a fight using that ahistorical engine which was usually removed from front line units but all our in game examples have. I’m sure someone would get 20 in the DXII if the DVIIF wasn’t available. Why do you normally only fly the DVIIF over the DXII? Could it be because the DM is broken and it’s unfairly weaker than the DVIIF with no historical precendent?

 

I agree that Dva streaks are hard because of the DM, which is surely your point too, or are you happy with the Dva as it is?

 

If you think chutes are largely useless then why do you use them after you lose a fight? Could it be because losing a vlife is frustrating and less fun?

 

Trupo put it very well on the J5 Discord last year when Jason popped in - it feels unfair to many of the players (I guess you’re happy, largely flying the DVIIF…) and that the game is cheating them on the cheap, and it’s why I’ve largely stopped flying FC seriously.

[J99_Sizzlorr]

What I am saying is there are other planes that are even worse than the S.E.5a when it comes to wings DM. I am not saying wings are fine on all planes. The Dolphin, the Albatros and the Pfalz D.XII need to be looked at. I am not sure about the S.E.5a though. It is not a dogfight plane in its current configuration it is an interceptor so use it that way and you will be pleased. If you try and fly it like a Camel you will be blown out of the sky.

Also I fly many planes. Last Flugpark quater I flew as much S.E.5a as Fokker D.VIIF and I flew even more Fokker Dr.I. So no your being biased and happy with it because you mainly fly the Fokker D.VIIF argument doesn't count.

Also when it is so brutally unbalanced then why you don't sit yourself in a central plane and rack one insane kill streak after the other to proof your point?

 

I also don't get your point about the Dr.I. Most planes had some rework done to the in their service time.

Yes the Dr.I suffered some bad glue and structural issues and was grounded for a time period but those issues got resolved over time and Idflieg deemed her fit to fly again. They even let Manfred fly her again. The best example of it would be the S.E.5a. The plane had many changes during it's service time. Pilots stripped her basically of everything unessential to make it go faster than the Albatros at the begining of it's service time. Why always point at a specific time frame and where central planes suffered and point at a certain time frame when everything was sorted out for the entente planes? All planes should be modeled according to how they were at the end of their development.

 

Also I never said anything about the Camel but since you bring it up here are my 2 cents about it. It is simply outturning everything central has. Only the Dr.I can compete. But the Dr.I can not gain as much altitude as the Camel in a turn fight because the Camel has an insane amount of enrgy retention. Our ingame Fokker Dr.I has other problems. It has a weird engine, which will rev higher when in the Fokker D.VIII. As long as that is the case I don't feel pitty for the Camels wing DM.

 

The D.VIIF got its wings nerfed and can not pull any insane amount of Gs anymore. It was a bit over the top at the initial new DM release.

The tank you are not mentioning btw is the Bristol. That is just a bullet sponge unrivaled by the Fokkers.

 

So in summary entente has planes faster than anything central has horizontally and vertically, entente has planes outturning anything central has. 

Central has planes that are structurally more robust than anything entente has. And they have a chute which is heavily overrated because it gets useless the moment you cross the front line which you have to do in order to win the missions.

 

Overall that doesn't sound brutally unbalanced to me. It is just different. Use your strenght and the enemies weakness.

Edited May 3, 2022 by J99_Sizzlorr

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

DrI barely does 100mph....a 600lb person could run from it. Having the ability to disengage or pursue is a huge advantage.

 

Btw DVII roll rate was nerfed as well...totally blows now.  

 

Entente would be able to bail at most altitudes if timer were set back to 5 sec....this would also discourage  chute shooting.

1 hour ago, US103_Rummell said:

 

Artun and others have found ways to work around the DM in this case but it’s not a problem the Fokker has. 

 

 

Artun....how does he do it ???

Edited May 3, 2022 by J5_Klugermann

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

The central planes can be flown in such easy mode , stick to the guts and don't worry about accelerated stall resulting in spin. Those old FMs are so retarded. 

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

Certainly a lot of valid points here, and experienced replies.  Still hoping the devs haven't forgotten the wing shedding issues and can find the time to address it soon..

[No.23_Starling]

Sooooo the Dr1 historical structural comment was meant to illustrate that there’s evidence for it being fragile at stages of its service but little for it being a tank that can routinely fly with 2/3 of its wings. I didn’t say we should have one in game which falls apart due to glue problems. Find me some sources to say the SE5a was fragile and couldn’t dogfight anything it faced.

 

Running away after one hit - sorry, hit and run tactics (sounds like Sizzlor was using the seagull technique..!) - was not where the SE5a excelled historically. There’s little to no evidence that it couldn’t dogfight all but the Fokkers, just read Ball, Grinnell-Milne, McCudden ad nauseum. The crap wings are just icing on the cake, as it forces you to fight more in the vertical where you’re more likely to shed your wings. I’m happy to use it as the weird compression ratio / coarse pitched interceptor we have, but the wings make that harder, and that’s why I switched to the SPAD years ago.

 

Im not advocating an us vs them / entente is all crap theory because that is bollocks; im trying to make the point that the SE5a specifically suffers more from wing weakness because our interceptor version has to energy fight. At least the camel can try and stay on the horizontal to preserve wings. I also want the Dva and DXII sorted; particularly the latter as it was my fave plane in RoF. The Dolphin feels the most buggered. I know you flew a lot of SE5a because we were on server together, but your choice of the DVIIF recently (looks at the stats) is in no doubt related to the DM of the other types available.

 

As for the Bristol toughness, you could try the method I used to build my streak killing dozens of pre-nerf Fokkers - practice gunnery religiously and hit the pilot. I learned how to “fight with what I was given”. It would be nice though if all the planes we know need a bit of buffing got some love. Who knows, maybe I’ll get the first 100 in a DXII without my “useless” chute.

 

Are you saying the Dva needs fixing but the SE5a is fine because you got a streak in it seagulling?

[J99_Sizzlorr]

2 minutes ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

The central planes can be flown in such easy mode , stick to the guts and don't worry about accelerated stall resulting in spin. Those old FMs are so retarded. 

Spins are in certain situations very useful I would not count it as an advantage only it has a drawback as well.

[No.23_Starling]

It’s funny, the one plane I’d have thought should have dodgy wings is the n28 which was famous for shedding the fabric on the top wing. It happened to Rickenbacker (I think) on production models. It’s fair tough in FC and dives just fine. 

[J99_Sizzlorr]

3 minutes ago, US103_Rummell said:

Sooooo the Dr1 historical structural comment was meant to illustrate that there’s evidence for it being fragile at stages of its service but little for it being a tank that can routinely fly with 2/3 of its wings. I didn’t say we should have one in game which falls apart due to glue problems. Find me some sources to say the SE5a was fragile and couldn’t dogfight anything it faced.

 

Running away after one hit - sorry, hit and run tactics (sounds like Sizzlor was using the seagull technique..!) - was not where the SE5a excelled historically. There’s little to no evidence that it couldn’t dogfight all but the Fokkers, just read Ball, Grinnell-Milne, McCudden ad nauseum. The crap wings are just icing on the cake, as it forces you to fight more in the vertical where you’re more likely to shed your wings. I’m happy to use it as the weird compression ratio / coarse pitched interceptor we have, but the wings make that harder, and that’s why I switched to the SPAD years ago.

 

Im not advocating an us vs them / entente is all crap theory because that is bollocks; im trying to make the point that the SE5a specifically suffers more from wing weakness because our interceptor version has to energy fight. At least the camel can try and stay on the horizontal to preserve wings. I also want the Dva and DXII sorted; particularly the latter as it was my fave plane in RoF. The Dolphin feels the most buggered. I know you flew a lot of SE5a because we were on server together, but your choice of the DVIIF recently (looks at the stats) is in no doubt related to the DM of the other types available.

 

As for the Bristol toughness, you could try the method I used to build my streak killing dozens of pre-nerf Fokkers - practice gunnery religiously and hit the pilot. I learned how to “fight with what I was given”. It would be nice though if all the planes we know need a bit of buffing got some love. Who knows, maybe I’ll get the first 100 in a DXII without my “useless” chute.

 

Are you saying the Dva needs fixing but the SE5a is fine because you got a streak in it seagulling?

I am just saying there are other planes to look at before we look at the S.E.5a and the Camel and the Spad. And I am saying that the current state is not brutally unbalanced like you stated above. Also I wasn't seagulling I was intercepting I don't have a wingmen on an ahistorical coms channel with me when I fly the S.E.5a. ? Shooting a Brsitol pilot is a bit more tricky since the gunner is in front of him blasting at you. Also my recent airplane choice has nothing to do with the DM. I is just my favourite plane (with the Albatros) and was even before the new DM release.

[No.23_Starling]

1 hour ago, J5_Klugermann said:

DrI barely does 100mph....a 600lb person could run from it. Having the ability to disengage or pursue is a huge advantage.

 

Btw DVII roll rate was nerfed as well...totally blows now.  

 

Entente would be able to bail at most altitudes if timer were set back to 5 sec....this would also discourage  chute shooting.

 

Artun....how does he do it ???

Dr1 is too slow. Luckily bullets are faster…

 

Artun is a master of many things. Flying damaged Camels, debating etc 

[J99_Sizzlorr]

1 hour ago, J5_Klugermann said:

Artun....how does he do it ???

Simply throttle back a bit and be gentle...

[No.23_Starling]

Just now, J99_Sizzlorr said:

I am just saying there are other planes to look at before we look at the S.E.5a and the Camel and the Spad. And I am saying that the current state is not brutally unbalanced like you stated above. Also I wasn't seagulling I was intercepting I don't have a wingmen on an ahistorical coms channel with me when I fly the S.E.5a. ? Shooting a Brsitol pilot is a bit more tricky since the gunner is in front of him blasting at you. Also my recent airplane choice has nothing to do with the DM. I is just my favourite plane (with the Albatros) and was even before the new DM release.

Oooh sounds like seagulling to me. It’s ok, man, a lot of my best friends are seagulls. Most of my SPAD streak was solo btw. 
 

Talk to Biddle about hitting the Bristol pilot - it is possible to kill him before the gunner. I know this because Biddle has done it to me.

 

Albi makes much more sense in 1917 which is why I love your new map. The Tripe match up is HOT. Even with better wings it a bit crap in 1918.

 

Dolphin needs love first IMO but SE5 and Camel would still be on the list for tweaking.

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

 

3 minutes ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

Simply throttle back a bit and be gentle...

I'll have to try that.   ?

Edited May 3, 2022 by RNAS10_Mitchell

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

17 minutes ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

I am just saying there are other planes to look at before we look at the S.E.5a and the Camel and the Spad. And I am saying that the current state is not brutally unbalanced like you stated above. Also I wasn't seagulling I was intercepting I don't have a wingmen on an ahistorical coms channel with me when I fly the S.E.5a. ? Shooting a Brsitol pilot is a bit more tricky since the gunner is in front of him blasting at you. Also my recent airplane choice has nothing to do with the DM. I is just my favourite plane (with the Albatros) and was even before the new DM release.

 

You wouldn't have to deal with any of these DM or FM issues if you put my Stuka in.

[J99_Sizzlorr]

1 hour ago, US103_Rummell said:

Running away after one hit - sorry, hit and run tactics (sounds like Sizzlor was using the seagull technique..!) - was not where the SE5a excelled historically. There’s little to no evidence that it couldn’t dogfight all but the Fokkers, just read Ball, Grinnell-Milne, McCudden ad nauseum. The crap wings are just icing on the cake, as it forces you to fight more in the vertical where you’re more likely to shed your wings. I’m happy to use it as the weird compression ratio / coarse pitched interceptor we have, but the wings make that harder, and that’s why I switched to the SPAD years ago.

Look at some of my sorties there you can see that I stay and fight even with damage.

 

http://stats.jasta5.org:8000/en/sortie/log/319397/?tour=48

http://stats.jasta5.org:8000/en/sortie/log/319381/?tour=48

http://stats.jasta5.org:8000/en/sortie/log/318242/?tour=48

http://stats.jasta5.org:8000/en/sortie/log/317798/?tour=48

http://stats.jasta5.org:8000/en/sortie/log/314386/?tour=48

http://stats.jasta5.org:8000/en/sortie/log/313527/?tour=48

 

[SeaW0lf]

I don't think the devs should discrimitate some planes over the others. Something is wrong with the DM in general and they should see what is it, because then, if they localize the fix, after every update things might go wrong again. Something was done in a way that some particular planes, SE5a and Camel included, go wingless pigeon all of the sudden.

 

I'm not here over these last two years, but it seems that, as it was mentioned, vertical fighting is affected, meaning spars? Who knows? The incidence of critical rupture seems to be overwhelming if we take into account vertical fighting, and with a couple bullets. So something is wrong at some point of the hitbox, and it affects several planes. People can't be bailing all the time just because they took a couple hits. But I'm sure it shows in the DM code and hitboxes. They had to come up with some numbers and percentage, so they might see where is the crux, which might be not that difficult to solve.

 

That's what make it so surprising, because at least with me, I get a lot of volley shots to the wings, two, five hits, meaning perpendicular or in angle. I should in theory have had several of these ocasions just perfurated canvas or part of a rib or something, and whith no shaking for that matter. But no, they all seem go straight to the spar, and with power. Or bracing wires?

 

Hence why it should not be that way. Which are the odds? I'm sure the engine can't draw the wings as hitboxes, but it could be made a percentage. Why so many volley shots are aparently overwelmingly hitting critical parts and making them straw material in vertical fighting?

 

Anyways, I'll try to do some tests. And I'll refrain to compare plane's caracteristics because that's so subjective in this case.

 

 

Edited May 3, 2022 by SeaW0lf

[No.23_Starling]

3 minutes ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

Look at some of my sorties there you can see that I stay and fight even with damage.

 

http://stats.jasta5.org:8000/en/sortie/log/319397/?tour=48

http://stats.jasta5.org:8000/en/sortie/log/319381/?tour=48

http://stats.jasta5.org:8000/en/sortie/log/318242/?tour=48

http://stats.jasta5.org:8000/en/sortie/log/317798/?tour=48

http://stats.jasta5.org:8000/en/sortie/log/314386/?tour=48

http://stats.jasta5.org:8000/en/sortie/log/313527/?tour=48

 

I’ll say it for the 3rd time (are you fishing for compliments??!). You’re one of the best virtual pilots out there with 1000s of hours in the sim and do not represent normal players. Most average pilots or even good ones will more likely lose their wings - you see it week after week in a way you don’t with the Fokkers. If you think that’s not true then we must have been playing different games.

 

Peace out.

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

Just fly slow, straight and level.   Problem solved..

[J99_Sizzlorr]

11 minutes ago, US103_Rummell said:

I’ll say it for the 3rd time (are you fishing for compliments??!). You’re one of the best virtual pilots out there with 1000s of hours in the sim and do not represent normal players. Most average pilots or even good ones will more likely lose their wings - you see it week after week in a way you don’t with the Fokkers. If you think that’s not true then we must have been playing different games.

 

Peace out.

No I am just correcting your statements, they seem somewhat exaggerated. Also it has nothing to do with me, I just want to show you that you are indeed able to successfully fight in an S.E.5a without running after one hit like you wrote above. That's all.

So what you are saying is that because the average pilot will lose it's wings in an S.E.5a we have to strenghten it. And I kindly remind you that this thing can go out of whack pretty quickly in the hands of more experienced pilots.

Edited May 3, 2022 by J99_Sizzlorr

[No.23_Starling]

2 hours ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

No I am just correcting your statements, they seem somewhat exaggerated. Also it has nothing to do with me, I just want to show you that you are indeed able to successfully fight in an S.E.5a without running after one hit like you wrote above. That's all.

So what you are saying is that because the average pilot will lose it's wings in an S.E.5a we have to strenghten it. And I kindly remind you that this thing can go out of whack pretty quickly in the hands of more experienced pilots.

Feels more like you’re being a pedant and not seeing the wood from the trees. I was correct in my statement about the Dr1s having wing glue issues, and the odd subjective view on disparity is my own which you can disagree with but not “correct”.
 

Go and find me some sources either contemporary or historical that suggest the SE5a could only be used in hit-and-run type attacks against all opponents and was structurally considerably weaker than say the Diiia then I’ll concede. I’ll give you a clue - you won’t. Now go fly the Diiia and see how many Gs you can pull vs the SE5a after a little damage to the wings. I’ll go do it now and video it for you if you like? I feel like you’re gaslighting the community by downplaying the problem.

 

Im not saying the wings need fixing to help the average pilot, I’m saying they need fixing because there’s bugger all historical evidence for the diiia or Bristol to be THAT much more durable. If the wings were all weak then we would all be in the same boat but right now there is a chasm between planes on both sides. How the SE5a is fine to you but the DVa is broken (which did need wing strengthening historically due to structural failures!!!) makes no sense. You say you have no bias, but looks like you do if you’ve managed to build a streak in a type?! TBH dude, you’re good enough to get big streaks in everything we have here.

 

Anywho, peace out (again). ?

[J99_Sizzlorr]

Dude I am not saying you are wrong about your glue fact on the Dr.I. My problem with your posts is that they exeggerate the problem way too much. I am not saying you could only use the S.E.5a with hit and run type tactics and I was showing you the opposite that you can infact fight with her successfully without returning to base after minor damage. So please stop twisting my words. I don't know why you bring up the D.IIIa now as we were talking S.E.5a initially. I just put your opinion into perspective when I share mine which somewhat differs from yours. That's ok with me btw. And I think you are the one that is gaslighting the community by over exaggerating the problem. You can read which ever book you want those things are described nowhere. No one can tell you the actual wing strenght of a plane when damaged compared to another plane. You can not prove the S.E.5a was tougher than the Pfalz D.IIIa either. So instead of stiring up the pot we should take the DM as what it is for now and see what the devs come up with after the drop tanks are released. Don't scare away new players with your dooms day oppinion. 

 

I put the following statements of yours into perspective: "The game is brutally unbalanced", "It is very hard to get a 20 kill streak with an S.E.5a" "You can always bail out in a central plane" and "You can only use hit and run tactics with the S.E.5a" or seagulling as you call it.

 

Those statements are simply not true. I am not saying everything is nice and dandy but everything is not as dark as you like to paint it.

Edited May 3, 2022 by J99_Sizzlorr

[US103_Baer]

10 hours ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

am just saying there are other planes to look at before we look at the S.E.5a and the Camel and the Spad. 

We've said on countless occasions that all the planes need wing DM fixing unless they've already had it done, like the D7.

That is our expectation from the Devs. Period. And any comment that selectively excludes planes from being fixed is going to smell of agenda. 

 

Are Albs and PF12s diabolically bad? Absolutely.  But that doesn't make Se5s ok, does it.

 

Second issue is mixing healthy wing strength and bullet-damaged wing strength in DM discussions. 

Bullet-damage modeling for all planes has to be the priority.

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by US103_Baer

[J99_Sizzlorr]

1 hour ago, US103_Baer said:

We've said on countless occasions that all the planes need wing DM fixing unless they've already had it done, like the D7.

That is our expectation from the Devs. Period. And any comment that selectively excludes planes from being fixed is going to smell of agenda. 

 

Are Albs and PF12s diabolically bad? Absolutely.  But that doesn't make Se5s ok, does it.

 

Second issue is mixing healthy wing strength and bullet-damaged wing strength in DM discussions. 

Bullet-damage modeling for all planes has to be the priority.

 

Dude read my words I am not denying that we need wing fixes but there are planes that can not be successfully flown right now in a competetive MP enviroment and they need their fixes first. And there are other planes where it is not that urgent because you can fly them successfully already in a competetive multiplayer enviroment. That is all I am saying! No agenda just my personal opinion.

Edited May 4, 2022 by J99_Sizzlorr

[US41_Winslow]

All aircraft with too weak wings need to be fixed as soon as possible.  For all types affected, it seriously handicaps them once they have been hit just a few times, as they cannot effectively fight anymore due to the severe limitations on the g’s that they are able to pull.  Even though it is possible to avoid losing wings most of the time, this is less due to the aircraft being able to withstand minor amounts of damage as much as the pilot being extremely careful to avoid moderate or high-g maneuvers.

[J99_Sizzlorr]

31 minutes ago, G_Miner said:

All aircraft with too weak wings need to be fixed as soon as possible.  For all types affected, it seriously handicaps them once they have been hit just a few times, as they cannot effectively fight anymore due to the severe limitations on the g’s that they are able to pull.  Even though it is possible to avoid losing wings most of the time, this is less due to the aircraft being able to withstand minor amounts of damage as much as the pilot being extremely careful to avoid moderate or high-g maneuvers.

We are all with you on this. We are just argueing about which planes are the ones with too weak wings. It seems we have different priorities. I say fix the Dolphin, Pfalz D.XII and Albatros first because they suffer the most. S.E.5a Camel and Spad are nowhere on the same level as the other 3 planes I mentioned earlier. Denying this sounds like an agenda to me.

Edited May 4, 2022 by J99_Sizzlorr

[ST_Catchov]

Okay things are moving along nicely. So we're all agreed then. Fix the Camel and Se5a first.

 

Then we take Berlin. No agenda.

[J99_Sizzlorr]

1 hour ago, ST_Catchov said:

Okay things are moving along nicely. So we're all agreed then. Fix the Camel and Se5a first.

 

Then we take Berlin. No agenda.

[US103_Baer]

3 hours ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

Dude read my words I am not denying that we need wing fixes but there are planes that can not be successfully flown right now in a competetive MP enviroment and they need their fixes first. And there are other planes where it is not that urgent because you can fly them successfully already in a competetive multiplayer enviroment. That is all I am saying! No agenda just my personal opinion.

16 hours ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

What I am saying is there are other planes that are even worse than the S.E.5a when it comes to wings DM. I am not saying wings are fine on all planes. The Dolphin, the Albatros and the Pfalz D.XII need to be looked at. I am not sure about the S.E.5a though.

 

Fine if you want to create priorities or lists. All good. So long as you support all planes getting done they can do it in alphabetical order for all I care.

After literally years of flying uber-gently, RTBing for a bullet hole, while watching the Fokkers pull mad Gs when shot up to hell, you'll have to forgive me if the urgency to upgrade the competitive ability of the Pfalz DXII isn't keeping me up at night. But yes, it has to be done too.

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

Fokkers have to pull mad G's when shot to hell cause they don't have the ability to extend or escape. When the plane is slower durability only prolongs the inevitable.

[BMA_Hellbender]

Wing fixes for all, Mercedes D.IIIaü for the Fokker D.VII and pretend the Nieuport 28, Albatros and Pfalzes (both) don’t exist and you have a pretty workable mid-to-late 1918.

 

Of course the devs are also banking on making bank with the Snipe and Siemens, which I’m okay with. New content is new content. They’ll probably make everything but the Fokker Dr.I, Fokker D.VIIF, Camel, S.E.5a, SPAD XIII and Bristol Fighter irrelevant, but that was already the case before. It’ll just be solidified. The Dolphin and D.VIII will forever remain red-headed stepchildren, even if in reality both these planes were formidable in combat. Alas, they add flavour I suppose.

[Trooper117]

Well, with Jason saying that with his small team and a deadline to stick too they have to prioritise what they can fix... it makes me wonder where FC comes into that list of fixes, if at all at the moment.

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

59 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

Well, with Jason saying that with his small team and a deadline to stick too they have to prioritise what they can fix... it makes me wonder where FC comes into that list of fixes, if at all at the moment.

Giving the lack of much acknowledgment/comments from the "team", I'd say these discussions are pretty irrelevant tbh..  here we are discussing which planes need fixing the most, and I see nothing to indicate they are even working on this at all. (after all these months).  Would be nice to hear from them, that this issue is important to them, andthat they have

some kind of plan in place to fix this wing damage/weakness issue that exists in multiple planes, that many, many users have repeatedly reported to them.

 

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by RNAS10_Mitchell

[J2_Bidu]

Don't hit me with them negative waves so early in the morning. Think the fix will be there and it will be there. It's a mother, beautiful fix, and it's gonna be there. Ok?

[Trooper117]

18 minutes ago, J2_Bidu said:

Don't hit me with them negative waves so early in the morning. Think the fix will be there and it will be there. It's a mother, beautiful fix, and it's gonna be there. Ok?

 

Ha!... I'll take it then that if this problem isn't fixed in the next update you will change your name to J2_ Moriarty!