Fw 190 Head position.

[percydanvers]

Okay this is kind of stupid, but I'm having a heck of a time settling on a decent default pilot head position for the FW-190. No matter what I always feel like I'm too far away from the sight to hit anything or so far forward that I have tunnel vision. I wish I had never messed with the default view on this one. What do you all recommend? I just can't seem to find a default view that "fits"

[peregrine7]

It feels very awkward with a monitor but fine in VR - just a coincidence of the canopy frame position and the average FOV.

I'd say about halfway between the two screenshots 

Sheriff's head position looks about the same as I used when I was on flatscreen:

 

[percydanvers]

1 hour ago, peregrine7 said:

It feels very awkward with a monitor but fine in VR - just a coincidence of the canopy frame position and the average FOV.

I'd say about halfway between the two screenshots 

Sheriff's head position looks about the same as I used when I was on flatscreen:

 

Those struts in the windshield just feel like they're blotting out my vision there, but it obviously seems to work in this video so I'll give it a try! Thank you!

[oc2209]

For the record, this is what the game's default (I've never changed it) looks like:

 

 

It's always made the 190's forward canopy feel claustrophobic, but it's the best (static, not VR) sight picture.

[Yogiflight]

With a new aircraft I always zoom in until the grip of the stick in the aircraft looks the same size as the grip of my joystick (it of course helps, that I have the KG12 grip, not one of the larger modern grips). It then looks about the way oc2209s screenshot looks. But this was not the game's default position in my case. That one was completely zoomed out, like your first screenshot. And as oc2209 wrote, it looks quite claustrophobic, but that is how a Focke Wulf cockpit looks IRL.

[Wilhelm_Heidkamp]

5 hours ago, percydanvers said:

 I wish I had never messed with the default view on this one. 

 

 

You always can return to default snap position. Look for the file in game\data\Luascripts\snapviews\defaults

Delete yor file (for example, fw190a8.svc) in game\data\Luascripts\snapviews\, and paste the same file from path I wrote (game\data\Luascripts\snapviews\defaults\fw190a8.svc).

[percydanvers]

4 hours ago, PA_Willy said:

 

You always can return to default snap position. Look for the file in game\data\Luascripts\snapviews\defaults

Delete yor file (for example, fw190a8.svc) in game\data\Luascripts\snapviews\, and paste the same file from path I wrote (game\data\Luascripts\snapviews\defaults\fw190a8.svc).

Oh wow I didn't realize you can do this. Thanks!

[RyanR]

 

I just pull the head all the way back, and zoom all the way out. The peripheral vision you get is too valuable.

 

-Ryan

[Elem]

Just now, RyanR said:

 

I just pull the head all the way back, and zoom all the way out. The peripheral vision you get is too valuable.

 

-Ryan

Totally right, and most close to normal human vision. I never zoom in as I can't do that in reality.

[Freycinet]

I also feel we should discuss that cockpit bar just below the gunsight.

[[CPT]Crunch]

IRL they would look more like in VR, which transforms this fighters fighting pit into something truly fantastic.  Picture view, yuck.

[LeLv30_Redwing-]

22 minutes ago, Freycinet said:

I also feel we should discuss that cockpit bar just below the gunsight.

You're dead right! I think we didn't reach an agreement with Oleg back in the days of IL-1946, this topic definitely needs more opinions and lot's of diagrams, I say!

[BlitzPig_EL]

Needz m0ar chartzz...

[CAFulcrum]

The 190 has a thick slab of armored glass for the windshield.  In real life the physics of light passing through glass creates a better view out than what you get in 3D games that treat the slab as empty space -- the front face of the windshield transfers the light it receives directly to the back face in a straight line, so you wouldn't see the sides of the frame but instead it would be like having the same vision as if the back edge were directly behind the front edge.  Based on what I've read about the issue it was a limitation of computer graphics, a huge debate around the original IL2's 190, and that il2:GB uses some sort of compromise.  I also remember reading that the limitation could be overcome with ray-tracing, which I thought was implemented in GB last year with the graphics overhaul, but I never saw mention of the issue.  Other planes with armored glass windshields obviously have the same issue, but the 190 is particularly cramped.  It sort of feels like you're sitting low at a desk, just popping your head up when it comes time to shoot.

[Freycinet]

Here we go, I think we'll at least hit 25 pages in this thread :-)

[Pict]

5 minutes ago, Freycinet said:

Here we go, I think we'll at least hit 25 pages in this thread :-)

 

Good chance...

 

as while most of us have been quite happy that the developer has set the bar so high, there are always those who will want have it lowered  

Edited December 14, 2021 by Pict
Spelling

[LuftManu]

1 hour ago, Freycinet said:

I also feel we should discuss that cockpit bar just below the gunsight.

Hahahaah...

NO

 

[LukeFF]

I wish more people could afford a VR headset, because it really transforms the way the Fw 190 cockpit looks. The difference coming from a flat screen view is like night and day. 

[oc2209]

5 hours ago, Elem said:

Totally right, and most close to normal human vision. I never zoom in as I can't do that in reality.

 

Except we can't simulate the better-than-20/20 vision that was almost a requisite for top-tier pilots/aces.

 

I'm always amazed when I read combat accounts (thinking of American ones) when they say they engaged a fighter at ~800m, and saw the strikes on X part of the plane.

 

I can barely see a plane at 800m in the sim (depending on time of day and atmospheric conditions), much less tell where .50 AP strikes are landing on it.

 

Beyond that, the only way to get the clear sight picture (in the 190 in particular) is to effectively slouch in your seat and/or lean forward until your eye is level with the sight. If you sit up straight (effectively the same as zooming out in the sim), your head is too high, and that's no way to aim properly.

Edited December 14, 2021 by oc2209

[percydanvers]

10 hours ago, RyanR said:

 

I just pull the head all the way back, and zoom all the way out. The peripheral vision you get is too valuable.

 

-Ryan

That was my first instinct, but my aim has gone to crap that way, and you get almost no rear visibility. 

 

8 hours ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

IRL they would look more like in VR, which transforms this fighters fighting pit into something truly fantastic.  Picture view, yuck.

Maybe that's why the 190 feels so awkward for me. It's stuff that works really well in real life but doesn't translate as much to a flat monitor. 

[DakkaDakkaDakka]

Are y'all not using the zoom feature? I use it constantly, zooming in and out (and resetting as needed) to suit my needs for situational awareness and aiming through the gunsight.

 

On planes like the FW-190 - where not only is the default head position kind of claustrophobic on a flat screen, but also offset to the right - I use the quick view (F10) key to save my head position where I like it for my default. Normally I press F9 (to pause TrackIR), then use the Insert/Home/Page Up/Page Down/Delete/End keys to get the view just where I want it. I'll use the mouse to adjust yaw/tilt if necessary. Then F10 to save the position as my new default, and zoom in/out to do the rest of the work.

 

It's a lot to manage but it becomes second nature pretty quick.

[Stig]

14 hours ago, Pict said:

 

Good chance...

 

as while most of us have been quite happy that the developer has set the bar so high, there are always those who will want have it lowered  

 

I would settle for the bar being open.........cheers

[Ace_Pilto]

[F19_Haddock]

I never liked the FW190 cockpit until I tried it in VR. In 2D that canopy frame on the sides is truly awful, but in VR you are so close to it that it's hardly noticeable. It's a really small cockpit and the visibility is stunning. 

If I played in 2D I would go for OC2209's camera (4th post form the top). That's the closest it feels to me.

[DD_Arthur]

On 12/14/2021 at 4:48 PM, [CPT]Crunch said:

IRL they would look more like in VR, which transforms this fighters fighting pit into something truly fantastic.  Picture view, yuck.

 

21 hours ago, LukeFF said:

I wish more people could afford a VR headset, because it really transforms the way the Fw 190 cockpit looks. The difference coming from a flat screen view is like night and day. 

 

2 hours ago, F19_Haddock said:

I never liked the FW190 cockpit until I tried it in VR. In 2D that canopy frame on the sides is truly awful, but in VR you are so close to it that it's hardly noticeable. It's a really small cockpit and the visibility is stunning.

 

Yeah, the first ‘modern’ fighter pit?

 

Makes you feel invincible in VR.

 

 

 

Up to a point, lol?

[LukeFF]

2 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

Yeah, the first ‘modern’ fighter pit?

 

I'll toast to that. I remember it was Oleg's favorite cockpit, because of the layout and ergonomics. 

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I'm on TiR5 with a flat screen and find moving your head position is critical to getting a good cockpit view. I am a 190 driver almost exclusively, BTW.

 

My formula is to move the head position all the way back and center the view on the full windscreen, not the gunsight, which pushes you left on the reflector sight. As a real pilot I cannot stand being on the right side of the cockpit - as stock. I dial the zoom all the way out and then use the mouse wheel to click back in on the zoom 9 clicks (10 for 109's). It gives you a really good view and the zoom is good for both shooting and tracking. You can still see all of the critical gauges as well. You just have to lean right slightly to get on the gunsight. 

 

A possible (anecdotal) benefit is I almost never get head shot and rarely PK'd. I think the modified head position may keep you in front of the armor better than the stock position. 

[RyanR]

On 12/15/2021 at 5:44 PM, II/JG17_HerrMurf said:

I'm on TiR5 with a flat screen and find moving your head position is critical to getting a good cockpit view. I am a 190 driver almost exclusively, BTW.

 

My formula is to move the head position all the way back and center the view on the full windscreen, not the gunsight, which pushes you left on the reflector sight. As a real pilot I cannot stand being on the right side of the cockpit - as stock. I dial the zoom all the way out and then use the mouse wheel to click back in on the zoom 9 clicks (10 for 109's). It gives you a really good view and the zoom is good for both shooting and tracking. You can still see all of the critical gauges as well. You just have to lean right slightly to get on the gunsight. 

 

A possible (anecdotal) benefit is I almost never get head shot and rarely PK'd. I think the modified head position may keep you in front of the armor better than the stock position. 

 

 

I liked the way forward views were in IL2-1946. There was a toggle between "gunsight" and "center" views. Toggling back and forth not only gave you the best of both worlds, but also let you snap the head position to see "around" the canopy frame in the 190.

 

 

 

On 12/14/2021 at 8:28 PM, percydanvers said:

That was my first instinct, but my aim has gone to crap that way, and you get almost no rear visibility. 

 

 

 

 

For rear views, put your head position back to "forward" and save the view with F10. Are you using snap views? At some point, the solution for us non-VR users is to get bigger monitors and higher resolutions.

 

A practice "trick", that I found useful long ago, is to put a bunch of C47's up in a quick mission. They're big and slow, and a fighter is fast, which makes it easy to set up tricky shots, and track the planes across the canopy frame. It's a great way to find the plane's limits and get your brain calibrated to the gunsight and ballistics of the guns.

 

-Ryan

Edited December 17, 2021 by RyanR

[Dr_Molem]

4 hours ago, RyanR said:

I liked the way forward views were in IL2-1946. There was a toggle between "gunsight" and "center" views. Toggling back and forth not only gave you the best of both worlds, but also let you snap the head position to see "around" the canopy frame in the 190.

 

-Ryan

 

[CUJO_1970]

Oh dear ?

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Let's not go there. It was such a nice discussion til that point. I'd hate to go all IBTL just before Christmas.

[Roshko]

On 12/14/2021 at 4:06 PM, Elem said:

Totally right, and most close to normal human vision. I never zoom in as I can't do that in reality.

That depends on how you look at it. The Field of View in zoomed out is waaaaay larger than your eyes' FOV. Actually the zoomed in view is much closer to what a pilot would see, only - it's like looking through a small window. But zoomed out allows your eyes to wander, just like they do in real life. So in fact: Zoomed out is the overview  you can easily get in real life by turning your head and moving your eyes, however it comes at the cost that everything is way smaller than it would appear in real life.

[CAFulcrum]

On 12/17/2021 at 6:43 AM, RyanR said:

 

 

I liked the way forward views were in IL2-1946. There was a toggle between "gunsight" and "center" views. Toggling back and forth not only gave you the best of both worlds, but also let you snap the head position to see "around" the canopy frame in the 190.

 

 

I'd like to see this as well.  ROF had alt-views that could be set up as a quick gunsight view, always wondered why it isn't present in il2.

[Ghost666]

37 minutes ago, CAFulcrum said:

 

I'd like to see this as well.  ROF had alt-views that could be set up as a quick gunsight view, always wondered why it isn't present in il2.

They are present in IL-2.

[KodiakJac]

On 12/14/2021 at 9:06 AM, Elem said:

I never zoom in as I can't do that in reality.

 

^  This.  I just find it too unrealistic.

[oc2209]

6 hours ago, acebone said:

That depends on how you look at it. The Field of View in zoomed out is waaaaay larger than your eyes' FOV. Actually the zoomed in view is much closer to what a pilot would see, only - it's like looking through a small window. But zoomed out allows your eyes to wander, just like they do in real life. So in fact: Zoomed out is the overview  you can easily get in real life by turning your head and moving your eyes, however it comes at the cost that everything is way smaller than it would appear in real life.

 

Yup.

 

Besides reading pilot accounts where they can see much more detail from 500m+ than I know we can here, I've also read many accounts where pilots can see the face of their opponent looking back at them (and their expression, etc). There's no way we can discern that level of detail except at collision distances.

 

Try looking at something roughly 50m away in real life, then compare the level of detail to what 50m looks like in the game. Provided, of course, you have 20/20 vision. Anyone with imperfect vision need not apply, since no pilots would've passed medical screening with less than 20/20.

[FlyinCoffin]

vr goggles would help if everyone would have them it would be much more fair. and better for everyone.

 

 

facial expressions..... dont forget they all are on methamphetamien and big doses of that. this substance can make your outside slowmotion.

[Ace_Pilto]

 

I see the "History" Channel has been at work again... 

 

Benzedrine Sulfate was issued in survival kits, with written orders that it should not be taken unless specifically sanctioned by an officer. (Officers were able to use it at their own discretion). Some chocolate also contained traces of amphetamine. Stop watching trashy television/youtube channels and read a book. (Or watch a good channel like SteveMRE, made by a creator with a good faith interest in the topic, rather than some idiot TV producer who wants to sensationalise such a mundane concept. The obvious benefit of using stimulants in survival situations is hardly an earth shattering revelation. The fact that they once used substances that have erstwhile become contraversial will be no surprise to anyone who is familiar with the Coca Cola company.

 

>>>back to the topic

 

I guess folks with parallax VR equipment must have the best of it with the 190's cockpit bar. I wonder how they find instinctive ranging and aiming with it? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[oc2209]

2 hours ago, Ace_Pilto said:

Benzedrine Sulfate was issued in survival kits, with written orders that it should not be taken unless specifically sanctioned by an officer. (Officers were able to use it at their own discretion). Some chocolate also contained traces of amphetamine. Stop watching trashy television/youtube channels and read a book.

 

I don't know what @FlyinCoffin was referring to specifically. I'm not claiming that pilots were methed up regularly.

 

All I'm saying is that I have a book with a picture in it of a British WWII survival kit. In the kit are 4 amphetamine tablets, with instructions written next to them. They're to be taken once every 6 hours if you need to stay awake for whatever reason.

[MisterSmith]

Cleaned the thread up a bit. I left the two historical references alone but any further drug references will get the thread locked. Keep it on topic please.