Controlling the parachute

[barndoor]

Hi all,

I posted in the thread off the weekly updates about the possibility of having control of the parachute. But my post is swamped out by people talking about unlockable stuff. So, I thought I'd post here.

 

Posted 07 July 2013 - 18:18

BlackSix, on 05 Jul 2013 - 10:35, said:

Bonus:

 

para.jpg

I love the development updates. Great work. A question- Will the parachute be flyable? Would simple steering controls be available to aim the parachute towards friendly territory? Will the wind blow it off course?

 

 

I've played Il-2 a LOT online and offline and always thought that not being able to control the parachute after bailing out was something missing. It was in Fighter Ace 3 onwards and in the Territorial Combat arenas it was sometimes possible to steer towards friendly territory after the canopy was opened. I think being able to look around and have a little control over the chute wouldn't be a hard thing to model and would add a fun element to surviving a mission perhaps?

 

Meanwhile, thanks for the updates. Progress looks great and I eagerly await release of this game!

[I/JG27_Rollo]

Nice idea.

 

Another thing that comes to my mind because of it, is to give the player control over when the rip cord is being pulled.

So instead of just bailing out and having the rest go automatically, the pilot first jumps out of the plane and only after another command of the player will he open the parachute.

 

I read accounts of pilots who reported that they would have to pull the cord in the last possble moment to not get shot by enemy planes while hanging on the chute. So this would be a neat little feature that has it's historical background.

 

(This could also make bailing out faster as the player is not sailing throug the sky forever.)

[csThor]

I'm far from being an expert on this but were parachutes that could be steered not a post-war invention?

[Uufflakke]

They could be steered to a certain degree. According Wikipedia:

 

"In World War II paratroopers most often used parachutes of a round design. These parachutes could be steered to a small degree by pulling on the risers (four straps connecting the paratrooper's harness to the connectors) and suspension lines which attach to the parachute canopy itself. German paratroopers, whose harnesses had only a single riser attached at the back, could not manipulate their parachutes in such a manner."

[csThor]

Yes, well, but we're talking about aircrew parachutes here. IIRC these could not be steered to a great degree, if at all, and I read several stories where aircrew were lost because they drifted into high-voltage lines or into swamps.

[StG2_Manfred]

I read accounts of pilots who reported that they would have to pull the cord in the last possble moment to not get shot by enemy planes while hanging on the chute. So this would be a neat little feature that has it's historical background.

 

In most of the flight books or memoirs of German pilots I was reading this, though not at the beginning of the battle of britain, but later then, when the war became harder and all lost their gentlemen attitude and humanity.

 

BUT, if they implement this feature, then we also have to shoot on the chutes to make this feature reasonable and our air war as realistic as possible 

[Hotsea]

Nice idea!

 

So, end of "run and lay" on ground moviment, when the pilot reach the ground.

Edited August 15, 2013 by =FN=Hotsea

[tomgor]

A question- Will the parachute be flyable? Would simple steering controls be available to aim the parachute towards friendly territory? Will the wind blow it off course?

 

I've played Il-2 a LOT online and offline and always thought that not being able to control the parachute after bailing out was something missing. It was in Fighter Ace 3 onwards and in the Territorial Combat arenas it was sometimes possible to steer towards friendly territory after the canopy was opened. I think being able to look around and have a little control over the chute wouldn't be a hard thing to model and would add a fun element to surviving a mission perhaps?

 

As someone who had a real life experience of round canopy parachute jump I can tell you that - yes - you can steer any round canopy (not equipped with jet/steering cuts - they were not known during WW2) simply by pulling on the risers. You need to pull down risers on the side you want the parachute to slide to. But it is a very limited control - the lateral speed could be max only approx. 20% of vertical speed.

 

You can also twist risers to twist your body beneath the parachute (because you have no control to turn the canopy itself), so you can be well aligned for landing (that is with your face in the direction where wind is blowing your parachute to). If there is strong wind and you are badly alingned you risk broken legs or even death if your aligned badly by 180 degrees, and after touchdown you fall to your back and hit something hard like a stone or a rock with back of your head.

 

If you let me to write more about parachutes and their recreation in the BoS I would like to see in the game parachutes entangling with airframes when opened too early, too close. I would like to see them catching fire and becoming subsequently eaten by fire when opened very close to burning aircraft, resulting in aviator's death.

 

I would like to see the pilot being able to leave cockpit only under certain conditions. Succesful jump requires as minimum the following actions (for smaller aircraft):

1. Disconnect radio/intercom cables and oxygen masks hose.

2. Open cockpit canopy.

4. Unlatch seat belts

5. Leave the cockpit by use of muscles or g-force (positive or negative as required - normal/inverted fligth).

6. Pull the ripcord when clear of airplane to avoid entanglement, but having height above ground in mind, too. Also, in certain case long freefall with much delayed opening of parachte canopy would be advised.

 

Succesful jump requires as minimum the following actions (for some bigger aircraft):

1. Disconnect radio/intercom cables and oxygen masks hose.

2. Unlatch seat belts

3. Move to emergency exit latch in certain case (bombers of greater size)

4  Open the exit door.

5. Leave the cabin by use of muscles or negative g-force.

6. Pull the ripcord when clear of airplane to avoid entanglement, but having height above ground in mind, too. Also, in certain case long freefall with much delayed opening of parachte canopy would be advised.

 

However, many things could go wrong.

 

High g-forces, lateral forces, centrifugal forces (what limiting values?) should prevent pilot from leaving the cockpit.

 

And it takes time to do all the actions as described above - doing them all but in wrong sequence may also have disastreous consequences.

 

Separate buttons should be assigned for all required actions as descibed above in attempt to make it as complicated and time consuming as it was in real life, instead of just traditional E or Ctr+E key or a single button.

 

I would like to suggest the following keys:

Key #1. Disconnect radio/intercom cables/oxygen hose

Key #2. Move to emergency exit door (only in case of bigger airplanes requiring such step). High g-force, side force, centrifugal force may make it impossible.

Key #3. Unlatch seat belts

Key #4. Use muscles to exit the cockpit/cabin (not always needed, when g-force can do it for you, negativee or positive depending on situation). Again High g-force, side force, centrifugal force may make it impossible.

Key #5. Pull the ripcord in the best possible moment, considering circumstance, but not later than 2-3 seconds before hitting ground.

Plus keys for sliding parachute and to align your body for landing, towards direction where wind is blowing to.

And maybe a key to pull the lower suspension lines after landing so canopy deflates and stops dragging aviator after landing.

[Picchio]

I definitely back this request.
Although if the degree of control as low as you guys point out, I can foretaste a certain degree of desperation...
Say, what if I bale out and the wind carries me towards enemy lines?
 
(That brings up something else, will the chute interact with windage?)

 

 

 

If you let me to write more about parachutes and their recreation in the BoS I would like to see in the game parachutes entangling with airframes when opened too early, too close. I would like to see them catching fire and becoming subsequently eaten by fire when opened very close to burning aircraft, resulting in aviator's death.

I would like to see the pilot being able to leave cockpit only under certain conditions. Succesful jump requires as minimum the following actions (for smaller aircraft):
1. Disconnect radio/intercom cables and oxygen masks hose.
2. Open cockpit canopy.
4. Unlatch seat belts
5. Leave the cockpit by use of muscles or g-force (positive or negative as required - normal/inverted fligth).
6. Pull the ripcord when clear of airplane to avoid entanglement, but having height above ground in mind, too. Also, in certain case long freefall with much delayed opening of parachte canopy would be advised.

Succesful jump requires as minimum the following actions (for some bigger aircraft):
1. Disconnect radio/intercom cables and oxygen masks hose.
2. Unlatch seat belts
3. Move to emergency exit latch in certain case (bombers of greater size)
4  Open the exit door.
5. Leave the cabin by use of muscles or negative g-force.
6. Pull the ripcord when clear of airplane to avoid entanglement, but having height above ground in mind, too. Also, in certain case long freefall with much delayed opening of parachte canopy would be advised.

However, many things could go wrong.

High g-forces, lateral forces, centrifugal forces (what limiting values?) should prevent pilot from leaving the cockpit.

And it takes time to do all the actions as described above - doing them all but in wrong sequence may also have disastreous consequences.

Separate buttons should be assigned for all required actions as descibed above in attempt to make it as complicated and time consuming as it was in real life, instead of just traditional E or Ctr+E key or a single button.
 
I would like to suggest the following keys:
Key #1. Disconnect radio/intercom cables/oxygen hose
Key #2. Move to emergency exit door (only in case of bigger airplanes requiring such step). High g-force, side force, centrifugal force may make it impossible.
Key #3. Unlatch seat belts
Key #4. Use muscles to exit the cockpit/cabin (not always needed, when g-force can do it for you, negativee or positive depending on situation). Again High g-force, side force, centrifugal force may make it impossible.
Key #5. Pull the ripcord in the best possible moment, considering circumstance, but not later than 2-3 seconds before hitting ground.
Plus keys for sliding parachute and to align your body for landing, towards direction where wind is blowing to.
And maybe a key to pull the lower suspension lines after landing so canopy deflates and stops dragging aviator after landing.

 

That's really interesting for knowledge, but don't forget that BoS is not conceived as a procedure simulator.
 

Edited September 18, 2013 by Picchio

[tomgor]

I definitely back this request.

Although if the degree of control as low as you guys point out, I can foretaste a certain degree of desperation...

Say, what if I bale out and the wind carries me towards enemy lines?

 

(That brings up something else, will the chute interact with windage?)

 

That's really interesting for knowledge, but don't forget that BoS is not conceived as a procedure simulator.

 

 

Well, sure it is not going to be a procedure simulator, yet I hope you agree that simple E-key is somewhat too simplistic?

 

Assuming descent speed of 6 m/s, you can have approx only 1 m/s of of lateral speed (in slide by pulling down risers approx. 50 cm). Imagine quite a normal wind of 10 knots (approx. 5 m/s). So it is very limited and basically round canopy will take you where wind is blowing, and you would have only a very limited capability to pick a landing spot. Shortly before touchdown twist the risers so you are looking in the direction of your travel to avoid hitting something hard with back of your head. Round canopy does not react to change of wind direction - I mean it will maintain heading.

 

There is one more thing you can do. In addtion to above described normal slide, you can perform a deep slide - you pull 2-3 lines (instead 2 of 4 risers) much more than in case of normal slide, which creates a deformation of canopy which should not go more than to the apex. It causes a significant increase of your descent speed, even 2 times. If you see that wind is blowing you towards enemy lines, perform such deep slide. Avoid deep slides below 100 m AGL. For comparison normal slide increases rate of descent by only approx 0,1 m/s.

 

Performing slides requires a lot of physical strenght and it is recommended to do them wisely, and start to do them not too early, to consverve your strenght and to avoid exhaustion before landing. So it could also be simulated in the BoS.

[tomgor]

That's really interesting for knowledge, but don't forget that BoS is not conceived as a procedure simulator.

 

 

I would add BoS is definitely a simulation (sure it not a CBT, or a procedure simulator), not an arcade game. You want to play it and not play arcade games because you prefer simulation. So if we have quite extensive simulation of flying why to be satisfied with arcade-style parachuting only? Why not to have it a bit more complicated than push of Ctrl+E key. Nothing compares to real life, even in BoS, be it flying or parachuting, but reducing bailing out in emergency to 1 key stroke, does not sound seriously enough, for a product like BoS, in my opinion.

[Picchio]

Well, sure it is not going to be a procedure simulator, yet I hope you agree that simple E-key is somewhat too simplistic?

 

Assuming descent speed of 6 m/s, you can have approx only 1 m/s of of lateral speed (in slide by pulling down risers approx. 50 cm). Imagine quite a normal wind of 10 knots (approx. 5 m/s). So it is very limited and basically round canopy will take you where wind is blowing, and you would have only a very limited capability to pick a landing spot. Shortly before touchdown twist the risers so you are looking in the direction of your travel to avoid hitting something hard with back of your head. Round canopy does not react to change of wind direction - I mean it will maintain heading.

 

There is one more thing you can do. In addtion to above described normal slide, you can perform a deep slide - you pull 2-3 lines (instead 2 of 4 risers) much more than in case of normal slide, which creates a deformation of canopy which should not go more than to the apex. It causes a significant increase of your descent speed, even 2 times. If you see that wind is blowing you towards enemy lines, perform such deep slide. Avoid deep slides below 100 m AGL. For comparison normal slide increases rate of descent by only approx 0,1 m/s.

 

Performing slides requires a lot of physical strenght and it is recommended to do them wisely, and start to do them not too early, to consverve your strenght and to avoid exhaustion before landing. So it could also be simulated in the BoS.

 

 

I would add BoS is definitely a simulation (sure it not a CBT, or a procedure simulator), not an arcade game. You want to play it and not play arcade games because you prefer simulation. So if we have quite extensive simulation of flying why to be satisfied with arcade-style parachuting only? Why not to have it a bit more complicated than push of Ctrl+E key. Nothing compares to real life, even in BoS, be it flying or parachuting, but reducing bailing out in emergency to 1 key stroke, does not sound seriously enough, for a product like BoS, in my opinion.

 

Your description sounds very thrilling and well, I totally agree with you here.

I also think that if they did enhance this aspect it would be a very nice addition to the immersion factor and I would absolutely love it; it's just that, the way I see it, BoS seems to rely more on something else and something more than the simulation aspect, which is why I like it - so, if it is going to embrace the idea of keeping you at least in control (and in danger) during your descent after a bale-out, I would definitely enjoy it.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Picchio

[tomgor]

BoS seems to rely more on something else and something more than the simulation aspect, which is why I like it - so, if it is going to embrace the idea of keeping you at least in control (and in danger) during your descent after a bale-out, I would definitely enjoy it.

 Fully agree - this is why I like the RoF, too.

[II./JG77Timairborne]

I was airborne infantry using the round chutes you can steer. Pulling a "slip" is what its called. You pull front two risers to go forwards, your right riser to slip right and your left to slip left. Its useful for dodging tree, power lines, vehicles or to find the comfiest place to land. 

[tomgor]

Pulling a "slip" is what its called.

 

 

Seems like I used incorrect word in some of my posts above - I am sorry. Please replace "slide" with "slip" and all I wrote would be finally correct.

Edited September 20, 2013 by tomgor

[II./JG77Timairborne]

Lol Just dont make us do basic airborne refresher before each flight. 

[tomgor]

Well, it is your choice, but if you would like to increase your chance to survive.... you know what to do 

[tomgor]

I have summed up my ideas regarding bailing out and parachutes here: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/767-thread-gather-your-suggestions/?p=29335

 

Sorry for typing error - instead of "hatch" I wrote "latch".