The STUG! AT LAST!!!!!

[[KG]Destaex]

4 hours ago, SCG_judgedeath3 said:

That is actually the war movie: Tali Ihantala 1944 Where the finns counterattack the soviet unions attempt in 1944 to counquer finland.
The winter war is this one:

Soviet unions first attempt at counquering finland in 1939.

Here is probably the best stug documentary one can find on youtube:

 

 

 

Sorry. I thought they were the same movie. Fair enough. Looks like I have another movie to watch with tanks in it.

Edited December 8, 2021 by [KG]Destaex

[Frinik22]

I don't think the Soviets intended to conquer Finland in 1944.They simply wanted Finland out of the war and not threatening their flanks as they were pushing the Wehrmacht o out of the Baltics. They realised that trying to conquer Finland would be bloody and weaken their efforts against Germany. This is why they offered a ceasefire to the Finns at the end  of summer 1944 and required the Finns to expel German units from Finland. The Finns were too happy to put an end to the war and keep their independence.That way The Soviets had free hands to deal with Germany in the North without any interference.

 

Tali Ihantala is a good film. The Finns used real Stugs which they had kept in museums after they were decommissioned in the late fifties.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Frinik22

[JV44HeinzBar]

S!,

I found 1944: Tali Ihantala. You can watch it for free on Youtube!  

 

 

HB

[[KG]Destaex]

Is that a leopard1 I see in the title screen their? 

Thanks for this but I own the movie on DVD. I just did not realise the earlier winter war was a separate movie.

[Ace_Pilto]

Edit: Oops

Edited December 8, 2021 by Ace_Pilto
Nevermind

[Lofte]

9 hours ago, Frinik22 said:

It's a  point of view. Another point of view is a civilized country and a good neighbour does not need to bully smaller countries to gain security. It's like people, do you threaten them every time they don't do what you want them to do? Or may be you talk to them without coercion and let them know your concerns to gain their trust and co-operation? The Finns did not want to play hero they only fought for their land and  their freedom.

As I know, Stalin didn't say something like "shut up and give me you land or you will die, damn finnish kapitalists". There were long talks with pretty bearable proposals. But finns said "no". Why finns as "good neighbours" didn't agree with these proposals? I guess that's because they weren't good neighbours at all)

You need to understand comrade Stalin - the big war begins and noone sane leader would wants to have state border in 30 km from 2 mln city with largest naval base. No one gave a damn about finns, but Finland could be a "bridgehead" for Germany or Britain to attack USSR's north flank. As It was in reality a couple years later.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Lofte

[moustache]

it is well known, stalin is only peace and love ... otherwise, we did not speak of the Stug before?

[Hanu]

39 minutes ago, moustache said:

it is well known, stalin is only peace and love ... otherwise, we did not speak of the Stug before?

 

Yeah, we should do that. The amount of bullshit is getting out of hand.

[JG27_Steini]

1 hour ago, Frinik22 said:

It's history not politics. We are talking about WW2 which ended 76 years ago. None of the actors of WW2 are alive it's part of history now.  Talking about Stalin's or Hitler's  strategies or decisions has no political impact on current events no more than talking about Cesar or Napoleon's wars.

After all this game or simulator is about history; the battle of Kursk. If we can't talk about it what is there to talk? Plus de discussion is civil no insults or slurs are being exchanged. If a forum is not about debating ideas what's the point of it? 

 

You might open up another thread. This was about StuG. Thats the problem.

[Frinik22]

Sure I get your point. Let's get back on topic. Are all future new armour additions going to be for a fee? I don't mind paying for DLCs with new maps and missions or campaigns but paying $ 20.00 for a new tank or SPG seems too much. I mean the base game is already $ 80.00  so if you start adding new tank models at 20 a pop it can quickly become expensive. 

[JG27_Steini]

14 hours ago, Frinik22 said:

Sure I get your point. Let's get back on topic. Are all future new armour additions going to be for a fee? I don't mind paying for DLCs with new maps and missions or campaigns but paying $ 20.00 for a new tank or SPG seems too much. I mean the base game is already $ 80.00  so if you start adding new tank models at 20 a pop it can quickly become expensive. 

 

We all hope there will be a TC2. You will get 10 vehicles for 80€. So far we did not get any free vehicle. It is a small team in a small company.

[Yogiflight]

38 minutes ago, JG27_Steini said:

So far we did not get any free vehicle.

except the two free vehicles, which started all that

Jason stated some time ago, that they won't develop three games at a time once more. So if there will be a TC2, then it will take some time. I doubt they will do a TC2 instead of a next BOX, as this is the main game, so it would be after FC2 is completed, if not a FC3 for the missing map, they want to do to get one large WW1 map. So the two new tanks certainly are for bridging the time until there might come a TC2. If so, the main point surely was the Churchill, so the Russian side gets a Kursk Battle tank, which will be more capable to deal with the German beasts. The StuG was the adding for the German side everyone had asked for from the beginning of TC.

[Lofte]

1 hour ago, Yogiflight said:

The StuG was the adding for the German side everyone had asked for from the beginning of TC.

But nobody says "what for" and what is its adwantage compared with PzKw-4... )

[Frinik22]

 

6 hours ago, JG27_Steini said:

 

We all hope there will be a TC2. You will get 10 vehicles for 80€. So far we did not get any free vehicle. It is a small team in a small company.

1C Studios is a small company? According the their wiki page they have an annual income of $ 650 million and over 1200 employees. They are bigger than companies like Bohemia Interactive  (Arma games) or Arkane ( Prey and Dishonour games) or IO Interactive (Hitman games)?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1C_Company

 

Personally my hope is that they expand their existing map to include new battles. For example the summer 1941  Barbarossa campaign in the Ukraine, the first battle of Kharkov in May 1942 (  which the simulator game Steel Fury was created around) , Fall Blau  summer 1942 and the second,  and third battles of Kharkov March to September 1943 with , the spring offensive of the Red Army (Kowel, Iassy) in the Ukraine in February-May 1994 , Bagration in June 1944. They could enlarge the existing map, add new campaigns, missions and vehicles. I know a lot of people in the West prefer the Normandy  and Germany campaigns but I much prefer the Ostfront because the largest, most iconic battles were fought there and the fate of Europe and of part of the World was decided in the East not in the West.

Edited December 10, 2021 by Frinik22

[Yogiflight]

5 hours ago, Lofte said:

But nobody says "what for" and what is its adwantage compared with PzKw-4... )

Almost everyone said 'what for'. It was by far the most produced German "tank".

 

21 minutes ago, Frinik22 said:

I know a lot of people in the West prefer the Normandy  and Germany campaigns but I much prefer the Ostfront because the largest, most iconic battles were fought there and the fate of Europe and of part of the World was decided in the East not in the West.

But in the west there will be much more money to be earned by a TC2. Additionally there are not too many tanks for an eastern expansion, players would be asking for.

[Dakpilot]

54 minutes ago, Frinik22 said:

 

1C Studios is a small company? According the their wiki page they have an annual income of $ 650 million and over 1200 employees. They are bigger than companies like Bohemia Interactive  (Arma games) or Arkane ( Prey and Dishonour games) or IO Interactive (Hitman games)?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1C_Company

 

 

 

I think you will find that 1C 777 Ltd who make TC and IL-2 Battle of.. games are Indeed a very small team and a comparatively small company, not the same as 1C games studio/publisher 

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

[No_Face]

4 minutes ago, Dakpilot said:

 

I think you will find that 1C 777 Ltd who make TC and IL-2 Battle of.. games are Indeed a very small team and a comparatively small company, not the same as 1C games studio/publisher

We can check it in game by clicking on "Credit" and indeed, it is not a big team.

[JG1_Wittmann]

49 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

Almost everyone said 'what for'. It was by far the most produced German "tank".

 

But in the west there will be much more money to be earned by a TC2. Additionally there are not too many tanks for an eastern expansion, players would be asking for.

I think the Stug  is  a decent addition to the game.  I don't think it is a great addition and the same goes for the churchill.  I disagree that there are not many eastern front additions being asked for.  I think the SU series of TD's,   the IS2,   T34-85   are needed.  The german side needs  the hetzer,  nashorn,   some artillery like the hummel and wespe,  brumbar maybe.   Jagdpanther, Jagdtiger.    Most  of the armored combat  in the war happened in the east, not in the west.   Now sure,  firefly, easy 8 sherman, couple of td's   but the reality needs to be remembered that the war in the east is what ground down the germans.   Had the conflict in russia/eastern europe never happened  all of the american and british glory  may have gone very very differently.    Most of the armored combat was in the east,  so it should be represented  more heavily,  even if for marketing reasons, then at least = to any western additions.

 

I don't know the #'s forsales that TC or the add-on vehicles has gotten.   I do know it is becoming more and more popular on multiplayer.  Finnish VP is the heavy weight mp server now and  tanks are used a lot there.   Combat Box   has decided to add armor as well now apparently in some of their missions.  MP  is only a fraction of a games sales and the trend there is upwards so I would guess the trend for single player is also rising,  but without  info on that hard to know for sure.     Normandy is coming out and I would think that time would be perfect for them to release a couple of new tanks/td's   at leat 1 for each side.   The war in the east is represented well with current maps  but  eastern europe battles   still need to be mapped out so I would expect a late/later eastern campaign, or 2 to be added at some point.   To me,  africa, or italy/sicily would go well  but we will have to wit and see what comes after Normandy.

[Yogiflight]

1 hour ago, JG1_Wittmann said:

I disagree that there are not many eastern front additions being asked for.  I think the SU series of TD's,   the IS2,   T34-85   are needed.  The german side needs  the hetzer,  nashorn,   some artillery like the hummel and wespe,  brumbar maybe.   Jagdpanther, Jagdtiger.  

The question is in which period of time do you get 5 vs. 5 in a reasonable way?

T-34/85 and SU-85 ...and what else? And what tanks on German side for that period?

The only reasonable eastern front scenario I can see is the beginning of the war in the Soviet Union. But the same issue as with the aircrafts. Although certainly an interesting scenario, people will be unsatisfied to go back to the older and worse tanks instead of going further to the late war beasts.

7 hours ago, Lofte said:

and what is its adwantage compared with PzKw-4... )

to answer that question, too, not too much in a game. Just the lower silhouette, so smaller target and over all frontal armor of 80mm, while the PzKpfw IV had only 50mm armor at the turret front.

IRL it was mainly the faster, easier and cheaper production and the possibility to go on producing Panzer III hulls additionally to the Panzer IV, just with the StuG build up instead of the Panzer top with a turret, which gave a larger overall production.

[JG1_Wittmann]

On 12/10/2021 at 1:19 PM, Yogiflight said:

The question is in which period of time do you get 5 vs. 5 in a reasonable way?

T-34/85 and SU-85 ...and what else? And what tanks on German side for that period?

 

 

What do you mean by 5 vs 5 ?    The tanks  to  put out ?    If that is what you mean   I would have to ask  why it has to be an even # for each side.   You flesh out the russian side,  T34-85 ,  SU-76,  SU-100  At some point the IS  Tanks  etc.  The allies,  since there are 3 main players,   already have more AC types,   So  Do some more TD's   do some mobile artillery for germans,    JP4 is already an AI tank,    A very good start would be to make all of the  vehicles in game  playable.  At that point  if there is interest newer models can be introduced.  IF that doesn't work,  the get vehicles in there that people will spend money on.   Probably not many will do so for crappier early war tanks.  Now they may go for scout cars, fast light tanks,  etc,  but the reality is not many want to fork out for a bt7  or a panzer 2  etc.  The americans and british have very little representation in game at this point other than the sherman

[BlitzPig_EL]

I'd purchase a Matilda in a heartbeat.  Or a Pershing, or a 38T, or even a Ha-Go.  I like tanks, and even though I don't play them often, I will purchase any one that is released.

[No_Face]

2 hours ago, JG1_Wittmann said:

 but the reality is not many want to fork out for a bt7  or a panzer 2  etc. 

For my part I am not against tanks at the beginning of the war. They often have the advantage of having a fast rate of fire.

Edited December 14, 2021 by No_Face

[SCG_judgedeath3]

You can sign me up for early war tanks. Battle of france:
British: Matilda 2, cruiser tank.
French: Char B1, Somua S35, Renault 35.

German tanks:
Panzer II, Panzer III E, Panzer IV B, Panzer T38, Panzerjäger 1, StuG A.

[No_Face]

The Stug III A is my favorite aesthetically speaking among the Stug with its short barrel ?

As a Frenchman I would be happy to see FR tanks in TC, see the interior well modeled ? On the other hand, the B1s would be difficult to play. ?

Edited December 15, 2021 by No_Face

[Frinik22]

There are 2 problems with 1940 tanks. If they are n modelled accurately in terms of damage they can receive and they can inflict then anybody driving a Panzer III Ausf. E with the short barrelled 37mm gun will will eaten alive by B1 or Somua S 35 french tanks. Their shells will bounce unless they are at 300 metres or less. In real conditions the Germans prevailed only because:

Their crews were better trained

they used co-ordinated combined arms tactics which the French and British did not

They gained air superiority over the battlefield which gave them air support against stronger enemy armour

They had better tactics with radio communication and attacking in strong groups (schwerpunkt) vs the individualistic or piecemeal use of armour attacks by the French .These conditions cannot be replicated in a sim such as this one. Except may be partly the air strike component. 

[SCG_judgedeath3]

7 hours ago, Frinik22 said:

.These conditions cannot be replicated in a sim such as this one

IT can like on finnish server: max 1 char b1 and 1 matilda 2 for the allieds to use. While cruiser and R35 tanks are unlimited. Panzer III E unlimited etc.
I play for the realism and have enemy tanks like they were so whole point of facing char b1 is the challenge! I want to tremble in fear for it and need to outthink it and hit its weakspots to take it out, the rewarding feeling of it is amazing ? Same when I face a tiger tank in my sherman.
I hate this nerf tanks so tiger isnt better than my stuart tank...... I want historical realism thanks.

[Frinik22]

May be it would work for the Panzer III but the Panzer I, II Ausf. C ,38t and 35 would be outmatched. But my concern was more that because the game is limited to tank vs tank combat you would not be able to compensate the early German tanks weaknesses through actual blitzkrieg and well co-ordinated  combined arms  tactics. One on one  against  French tank a Panzer II stands little chance except for its manoeuvrability .

[BlitzPig_EL]

So, let me get this straight...   It's OK for the Tiger to dominate, but if we have a time period where the Germans are on equal footing, or *gasp!* at a deficit to opposing tanks, then nope, we can't have that?

 

Really?

[Voidhunger]

Hei i cant find info about front armor of the stug iii. It was now solid 80mm (and not 50+30) in G version, but was the front armor 80mm thick everywhere in the front? I think the sloped parts were 60mm? And what about the gun shield?