Discussion of Churchill Mk.IV, StuG III Ausf.G and IAR-80/81 Pre-Order Announcement

[fergal69]

Noooooo

 

Run up to Christmas & 3 pre-orders released.

 

Do I sacrifice a present for my wife in order to treat myself?

[Avimimus]

3 hours ago, 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann said:

-HVARs, 75mm Gun. 12 Forward Firing MGs, up to 6 Bombs externally up to 350lbs a piece.

 

That is only for the versions used in the Pacific though! The one we'd get would be limited to six bombs and four fixed forward firing guns.

 

If you care about bomb loads - some other twin-engined types are much more attractive:

1400kg (3000lb) - B-25

1800kg (4000lb) - Mosquito B.IV

2000kg (4500lb) - Wellington

2270kg (5000 lb) - Tu-2

2700kg (6000lb) - Il-4

 

Although some late B-25 models were able to reach Il-4/Tu-2 payloads, right? They just wouldn't be the models we're getting?

Edited December 2, 2021 by Avimimus

[41Sqn_Skipper]

2 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

1400kg (3000lb) - B-25

1800kg (2000lb) - Mosquito B.IV

 

[Avimimus]

5 minutes ago, 41Sqn_Skipper said:

 

 

Yup, I was thinking ~2000kg when I typed that... I'm finding it harder and harder to think in non-metric

 

At least I'm not like some commercial youtube videos which are narrated by people who didn't right the see 'kns' and start talking about which classes of ships can reach speeds over 20 'kilo knots'... ?

[CountZero]

19 hours ago, NoelGallagher said:

many of them are gamers who plays it for stats in multiplayer

most of them don't care about history and or that 

i just encountered someone today who's saying that he don't want to see infantries in tank crew LOL

and his reason for that was "how is AI infantry can ever be relevant with gameplay" .. 

well what can i say... it's just different pops

chuchill is the one of the most iconic tank in ww2 and just for that reason alone it is very much appreciated 

YES exactly this was why we all knew what was coming haha

it's the best compromise for all

it can be used in western front scenarios 

also give reasonable option for allied tankers in multiplayer to deal with german heavy panzers

and both tanks were present at prokhorovka so they can expand the existing product

perfect sweet spot for everyone

im sure youll be first to let go of your tiger and balance sides with this popular churchill now when red side will have heavy tank, ill be waiting to see how many tiger lovers who are so glad red got this tank will drive it insted of their axis heavys and for how long LOL

 

6 hours ago, Alexmarine said:

On the Churchill armour manage your expectations: PaK40 can penetrate the frontal aspect of it from below 800m with PzGr.39 APC shells (600m for the PzIV and StuG) and 1.1Km with PzGr.40 APCR shells (950m for PzIV and StuG).

The Panther's L70 gun will penetrate the frontal arc of a Churchill at any combat range below 1.3km using both APC and APCR shells. Similar good results will be obtained with both the Tiger and the Ferdinand.

 

Lack of APCR on the Churchill 6pdr (if they decide to keep it modelled as an Eastern Front 1943 model) will mean that it will be very hard for it to harm from the frontal aspect Tigers and Panthers at all range except very close ones.

 

Unless you are taking a stroll around in a Panzer III (and below 300m with APCR not even for it) the Churchill will not be that more dangerous than the other allied tanks already in the game, though it's definitely a slight improvement over the KV-1S

Oh yes they will make gun modification for gun used in italy and ammo used in 44-45 for tank that they selected because historicly it fits Prokhorovka. Where is the logic there, we have to limit tank to historocal setting but gun and ammo for it can be unhistorical for that period LOL

funny how ppl like the tank and imiditly ask for gun it didnt use in this battle and ammo it didnt have, its same as they just selected IS-2 it would fit better then Churchill with 75mm guns and late war ammos.

 

Poor choice of red tank, especialy if it gets late war mods and guns, then the whole point of we have to pick it because prokhorovka, falls down the drain.

 

O cant wait to see so many churchill lovers online vs tigers...

[Yogiflight]

2 minutes ago, CountZero said:

Oh yes they will make gun modification for gun used in italy and ammo used in 44-45 for tank that they selected because historicly it fits Prokhorovka. Where is the logic there, we have to limit tank to historocal setting but gun and ammo for it can be unhistorical for that period LOL

The early Bf 109 G6 was added for the late BOK, but received the MK 108, however it never used it during BOK. So no point for you.

It would absolutely make sense to add those modifications to be able to use it for Normandy. It is up to mission creators and server admins to allow them or not.

[DD_Crash]

If there is a TC 2 and it is late war, then  a gun/ammo mod might not be too hard to implement

[NoelGallagher]

32 minutes ago, CountZero said:

im sure youll be first to let go of your tiger and balance sides with this popular churchill now when red side will have heavy tank, ill be waiting to see how many tiger lovers who are so glad red got this tank will drive it insted of their axis heavys and for how long LOL

i do occasionally switch the side to drive t-34

especially when there's less tankers on soviet side

the problem for soviet side is more than just inferior armour 

whenever i choose to play as allied tanker

there's almost little no communication if not at all

and more often soviet tank players lacks skills 

many of them didn't even knew how to range the gun

and most of the time don't even try to utilize their advantage(EX:flanking with fast speed on offroad, picking out otherside of the hill with 2nd telescope, calling CAS) and often proceed to give germans upper hand by engaging german tank from far distance

and when i play as german tanker 8 out of 10 get killed while they don't even aware of where they are getting hit from

this means even if they get is-2 it won't change the situation not that much

i do agree that allied team have disadvantage in terms of armour 

but there are many more reasons why allied tankers perform so poorly on multiplayer environment

 

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by NoelGallagher

[69TD_Hajo_Garlic]

I probably will end up buying it because everything in this sim is modeled so well but the Churchill seems useless for MP which is 90% of what I play. The stug and the iar will be awesome, but a large and slowish heavy that won’t be able to take advantage of its hill climbing mobility and with its lackluster gun(s) against the majority of threats it will encounter in mp is disappointing. I was hoping we would get a vehicle that would somewhat level the playing field on the ground, even though this fits nicely for the scenario. On the other hand, I cant wait for the stug and iar. I hope the iar gets br21 rockets! The 13.2mm browning machine guns will also be interesting. 

[Escadrila57-24]

I've made a comment on another IL-2 forum  post - i'm thinking that is better found here : 

 

http://www.iar80.org/  There this a project about IAR-80/81  that try's to bring up / help in  providing documentation and  3D modeling information ( more like actual production factory CAD's  as the people involved are aerospace engineers ).  Scroll up and down on the pages  and click on the titles/sections/articles.  They what to recreate a real 1:1  replica of the plane eventually and fly it.  I am posting it here   for the il-2 team  / designated 3D modeler ( Ivan ) of IAR-80  to contact them or find inspiration in there work.  In there  Mission Statement   it points to topics related to : helping   other  organisations   willing to educate themselfs  in popularising the IAR-80  and having  experience exchange related to  ww2 era plane knowledge.   You are both in the bussines of  making 3d models ( themself actualy building the plane ) and having  historical accurate representations.   Use both languages :  RO & EN  for the site. 

 

There are realy good into archive digging so some use may be come out of this. 

Also they make a list of good books to buy about the topic. 

 

Will buy the  collector plane for sure.  I salute you all. 

 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by Escadrila57-24

[migmadmarine]

11 minutes ago, Blitzen said:

 

War ? Kein Königstiger-Panzer ?

 Keinige ich bin zutiefst verletzt!

Since the Königstiger didn't serve at Kursk, and the devs have yet to put in any vehicle that didn't at least serve at the same time as and at least near the area covered by a current battle module.

[=420=Syphen]

Excellent. Very excited for the IAR.

[Zinovy_Kolobanov]

[BlitzPig_EL]

Why all the hate for the Churchill?

[I./JG52_Woutwocampe]

I'd buy that IAR in a heartbeat

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Why all the hate for the Churchill?

 

Ignorant players who think that any gun smaller than a KwK 40 is useless. ?

[Nickkyboy99]

Going to buy all 3 soon ?

[stefostef]

I pre ordered the 3

Churchill will be great !

[Blitzen]

9 hours ago, migmadmarine said:

Since the Königstiger didn't serve at Kursk, and the devs have yet to put in any vehicle that didn't at least serve at the same time as and at least near the area covered by a current battle module.

I was thinking use in Normandy ( in the long awaited new map,) & perhaps even the Bulge ( using the Bodenplatt map in some way..)

[Asgar]

10 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

Ignorant players who think that any gun smaller than a KwK 40 is useless. ?

More like: any tank I can outrun in my bicycle is useless xD

Edited December 3, 2021 by Asgar

[CCG_Pips]

11 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Why all the hate for the Churchill?

Because many players consider that this tank will not allow them to face the German tanks (from PzIV to Ferdinand), since it does not have an effective gun at long distance, that it is slow (24 km/h !!!!!!!!!! ?) and not very maneuverable .

Wanting to reproduce history and original models is good, but we are in a simulation game and where "competition" is also important.

It has been too long now that "players" have been asking for a TC2 (Western Front) and more efficient Russian tanks such as the T-34/85 for example on the Eastern Front. Personally I bought the two tanks and I am very happy to see the Churchill coming (for the historical aspect) but a lot of sales will be lost for everything I wrote above.

it's a shame because it will give a false image of the real market to DigitalForms and Jason.

Quickly, they will see a big difference in term of sales between the Stug III and the Churchill.

Maybe they will come to understand.

Edited December 3, 2021 by CCG_Pips

[NoelGallagher]

ah what a mayhem

well i guess all online commnity is like this 

gotta let go bye

[CCG_Pips]

6 minutes ago, NoelGallagher said:

ah what a mayhem

well i guess all online commnity is like this 

gotta let go bye

the online community is mainly made up with "players" .... yourself are often on the "Finnish virtual pilot" server. Do you really think a Red player is going to use the Churchill? No, he will continue with the T-34/76, as before !!!

So, some like me who like tanks as a whole entity will buy it, others will ignore it. This is quite understandable!

 

if you like fish, are you going to buy shellfish you don't like from your fishmonger just to please him?

[migmadmarine]

5 hours ago, Blitzen said:

I was thinking use in Normandy ( in the long awaited new map,) & perhaps even the Bulge ( using the Bodenplatt map in some way..)

Normandy isn't a Tank Crew module. You can play tanks on it's map, yes, but it's not designed for tanks. I imagine were there to be be a KT added at somepoint, it would be with a dedicated mid/late 44-1945 module, specifically a tank crew package with appropriate map. For now, assume any ground vehicles added are ones that can compliment the Prokarovka setting/period. 

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

Even without the APDS round, the 57mm APCBC should have better penetration than the Sherman's 75mm and T-34's 76mm.

[CCG_Pips]

22 minutes ago, migmadmarine said:

Normandy isn't a Tank Crew module. You can play tanks on it's map, yes, but it's not designed for tanks. I imagine were there to be be a KT added at somepoint, it would be with a dedicated mid/late 44-1945 module, specifically a tank crew package with appropriate map. For now, assume any ground vehicles added are ones that can compliment the Prokarovka setting/period. 

If you take the Finnish Virtual Pilot server as an example, you will see that ALL current and future maps can be perfectly adapted to the use of land vehicles.

 

1 minute ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

Even without the APDS round, the 57mm APCBC should have better penetration than the Sherman's 75mm and T-34's 76mm.

For that, I am waiting to convict myself but even if you are right, the problem of its slowness and its maneuverability will remain. Understand me, I am not opposed to Churchill since I bought it, but I would like to point out the comments that I have heard from many players.

[CCG_Pips]

16 minutes ago, Eeafanas said:

«Many» players are whining about Churchill futility - either aware of the capabilities of his weapons and armor, or simply ignorant in this matter.  It makes me laugh when another player with an anime/fascist tanker on their avatar begins to prove that Churchill is a terrible tank because of the speed.  Frankly, I don't care about speed. 24 kilometers per hour is not 18 for Ferdinand.  The main thing for me is that the ARMOR can confidently withstand the hits of KwK 40 at a distance of 800 meters and that the Tigers make their way head-on from a distance of 1000 meters.  Churchill can boast of all these advantages.

So you should go and explain it to everyone who won't buy it.

I didn't understand the phrase "when another player with an anime / fascist tanker on their avatar begins to prove that Churchill is a terrible tank because of the speed".

 

Also,  making a comparison with Ferdinand is a bit out of the discussion. A Ferdinand destroys any tank over 2500 meters without any problem. He can afford 18 km / h.

 

In any case, I see a player with the avatar of a Russian tanker, refusing to buy the Churchill !!!

  (Zinovy_Kolobanov) ? 

 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by CCG_Pips

[Stab./JG3_Hartmann]

I will get all three pieces of new toys, althoug the IAR is probably the most useless for me personally.

But I don´t get all the fuss about the Churchill, well yes it´s a slow tank, it was an infantry tank after all.

Imho it´s a welcome addition, fits the timeframe and I will enjoy it like all the other content.

Other than that, I´m not "really" scared of it should I encounter one, he may be well armored, but not like it would be impenetrable.

[CCG_Pips]

38 minutes ago, Eeafanas said:

 

 

  Hide contents

According to my observations, the most ardent haters of allied weapons are people with an anime / German tanker / German tank / plane or something else, the main thing connected with the Third Reich.  It's my personal opinion.

 

 

 

Soviet*

A lot of my friend not interested with Churchill plays ONLY on Soviet side....so !!!

 

Yes, you are right: Soviet ....not Russian?

[Alexmarine]

Virgin Churchill frontally challenging Panzers with mid 1944 ammo

Vs 

Chad brave little T-70 ambushing them from the flank with glorious soviet 45mm gun and whatever shell they got in there

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by Alexmarine

[Alexmarine]

Just now, Eeafanas said:

Why waste time on trifles. Let's add the T-60

 

Why not going all in?

Joking aside: I wouldn't mind scout tanks or armoured cars for both side, one of my best online play on Finnish server with the ground forces was basically sitting on an hill overlooking a german advance and relaying their movements to both other soviet tanks and planes

[Alexmarine]

2 minutes ago, Eeafanas said:

Т-38? Pfffff...

  Hide contents

 

 

[Alexmarine]

10 minutes ago, Eeafanas said:

Can be entered as a reconnaissance tank T-30/40. He, too, can swim and he also has a DShK in service (but there was a variant armed with the same cannon as the T-60), which already brings his chances of entering the game closer. Unfortunately, most of the community wants to see the wunderwaffe of the late phase of WWII...

  Hide contents

 

https://zen.yandex.ru/media/yuripasholok/kak-na-t40-stavili-orudie-pokrupnee-601d8a4586f4e22208f0e914https://zen.yandex.ru/media/yuripasholok/kak-na-t40-stavili-orudie-pokrupnee-601d8a4586f4e22208f0e914

 

I personally love the early war tank designs given that many were still heavily influenced by the '20s and '30s trends, I would pick a T-26 or a BT-5 over a T-34 any day, but like with planes people gravitate towards the late war...

 

About recon vehicles, I kinda like also the armoured cars of the early war period like the BA-6 and 10, unfortunately it seems that by mid-43 already they were rare and at best the BA-64 (a much lighter design) replaced them along with motorcycle and half-tracks troops

 

[easterling77]

1 hour ago, Alexmarine said:

 

Why not going all in?

Joking aside: I wouldn't mind scout tanks or armoured cars for both side, one of my best online play on Finnish server with the ground forces was basically sitting on an hill overlooking a german advance and relaying their movements to both other soviet tanks and planes

agreed, somtimes your intel to the team effects way more, than all your personal hits

Edited December 3, 2021 by easterling77

[Alexmarine]

23 minutes ago, Eeafanas said:

Finally, I met a friend with similar wishes. I wrote about early armored vehicles for a very long time, but the community usually greeted all these messages with either skepticism or outright hostility.
 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

We will have to ask for Tank Crew 2: Clash at Brody (1941 of course) 

[cardboard_killer]

Plenty were lend leased to the Soviets. Even if they aren't cannons.

 

[[F.Circus]FrangibleCover]

To comment on Churchill manoeuvrability, I think people may find themselves surprised. The hill climbing capability of Churchill is famous, and the excellent transmission system allowed it to turn the hull rapidly as well. Sure, it's slow, but between the transmission and the low ground pressure, it's slow where other tanks are stopped.

 

When it comes to the ammunition, my position is and always will be that a vehicle should be represented in Il-2 in every configuration it was operated in, somewhat like the Hurricane. If ever we get a NW Europe or Italy Tank Crew module the Churchill will be ready, and server owners and scenario makers can simply lock off the ahistorical modifications if they don't want them. The other alternative is something like the Spitfire Vb we have, which is correct for Kuban but we will now be using on the Normandy map despite it being the wrong variant for mid 1944.

[Alexmarine]

7 minutes ago, cardboard_killer said:

Plenty were lend leased to the Soviets. Even if they aren't cannons.

 

 

A good choice for an AA vehicle for the 1944/45 time frame that served both west and east (though like noted by that time you really wanted to have a 37 or 40mm autocannon)

[BlitzPig_EL]

I'm all in for more light armor in the sim.  Half tracks, armored cars, light tanks.  Bring them all.

 

[Monty_Thrud]

Suuuuperb111...well looking forward to this...thank you... for the ...