Details regarding american aircrafts skins. Please read before P-51 B/C release.

[Ptolemy_Soter]

Hi everyone !

 

As P-51 B and C are getting close to release (in 2-3 weeks ?) I want to draw your attention on some details regarding USAAF aircrafts skins.

 

First of all I noticed that many of you forget to complete the technical data block which is found below the cockpit like on this P-51 D

Here the serial number is missing. It should be written after "SERIAL NO. AAF"

 

 

Next I observed on some skins that factory applied technical inscription are not covered over by paintings applied at unit level.

This is the case for nose art or D-Day stripes like here.

As D-Day stripes were painted after the aircraft reached the front, they must cover the factory applied inscriptions.

 

 

One more thing. The official announcement of P-51 B and C last year was exciting because we'll have more than just one production block.

With its two engines, three gunsights and two canopies I identified seven (!) possible variants:

 

Inglewood-built B-7, B-10 and B-15

Dallas-built C-3, C-5, C-10 and C-11

 

So please, if you are about to skin a P-51 B-15 NA or a P-51 C-3 NT or anything else then fill in the technical data block with the correct informations and not the default ones.

Thanks a lot ! ?

Edited November 26, 2021 by Ptolemy_Soter

[Avimimus]

Are you going to provide template files for us to make that easy?  

[ilmavoimat]

Rather a trivial point when half of the on line players can't even find the bloody runways let alone data panels!!

Edited November 26, 2021 by ilmavoimat

[Hoss]

No one is going to see the data block but you, if; you fly with padlocks on and external views.  I never see my personal skin, and neither will anyone online except my squad mates and I don't want them close enough to read it. The only real time I'm ever going to see it is when I take a screen shot for the forums.  I would like to see the pilots head coordinated with mine, so I know when I'm flying formation the guy I'm following looks back at me and the guys following me is glued to me.  Like to see the constant runny nose wiping stop too.  LOL

 

Cheers

Hoss

[Gambit21]

On 11/26/2021 at 1:22 PM, Ptolemy_Soter said:

Hi everyone !

 

 

 

First of all I noticed that many of you forget to complete the technical data block which is found below the cockpit like on this P-51 D

Here the serial number is missing. It should be written after "SERIAL NO. AAF"

 

 

 

For various reasons that data block was not always present on the aircraft during the war.

I have many photos of 352nd Mustangs, and MANY of them are missing this.

 

Here's a 6K texture I did some years back (on my own 3D Mustang model) of another squadrons/D model for illustration purposes....Eagleston's bird...no data block because as was many times the case, it wasn't there in real life.

 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2021 by Gambit21

[IckyATLAS]

On 11/26/2021 at 10:22 PM, Ptolemy_Soter said:

Hi everyone !

 

As P-51 B and C are getting close to release (in 2-3 weeks ?) I want to draw your attention on some details regarding USAAF aircrafts skins.

 

First of all I noticed that many of you forget to complete the technical data block which is found below the cockpit like on this P-51 D

Here the serial number is missing. It should be written after "SERIAL NO. AAF"

 

Next I observed on some skins that factory applied technical inscription are not covered over by paintings applied at unit level.

This is the case for nose art or D-Day stripes like here.

As D-Day stripes were painted after the aircraft reached the front, they must cover the factory applied inscriptions.

 

 

One more thing. The official announcement of P-51 B and C last year was exciting because we'll have more than just one production block.

With its two engines, three gunsights and two canopies I identified seven (!) possible variants:

 

Inglewood-built B-7, B-10 and B-15

Dallas-built C-3, C-5, C-10 and C-11

 

So please, if you are about to skin a P-51 B-15 NA or a P-51 C-3 NT or anything else then fill in the technical data block with the correct informations and not the default ones.

Thanks a lot ! ?

 

Well, well.....hmmm.

 

Yes okay I agree to the search of excellence. As a long time scale model builder of RC planes I also know what is to go down that rabbit hole of trying to replicate to the maximum. But one thing is a brand new plane coming out of the production line, and one thing is a warplane in a combat zone. Those planes took an abuse that sometimes is hard to imagine. Servicing to keep them airworthy at any cost when lacking spare parts, or cannibalizing scrapped planes would quickly transform them into planes which besides the serial number would become combinations of other planes. So in the end skin replica precision is all somewhat relative.

 

In scale models or even when skinning a sim plane it is less important what was the brand new out of the line skin version, but it is the precision of how the skin of an existing plane (in a museum or a  flying one) is replicated. If that existing plane (you need at least photographs and proof of what you are replicating in terms of colors etc.) has a completely different skin, who cares as long as you like it (this is why you go through the hassle of reproducing it) and your reproduction is absolutely perfect.

 

Here a kind of example. Here under is a plane I loved to fly some years ago, by the way (2002) a lot of years ago ? (that's me in the photo gently checking the propeller blade for dents):

You have all recognized a Piper Cherokee PA28-140. An extremely robust airplane with a high load (weight) carrying capacity.

Breitling agreed to pay for the complete repaint of the plane to the condition that we would paint it in according to his flashy visual. As a club we were  happy to have this kind of sponsor to help us maintain our planes in good shape.

 

Now you agree that such a skin has nothing to do with the stock or production skin of this airplane. But this plane exists and flies, so in a scale competition where you have to create an exact replica of an existing plane it is the exactness of reproduction of this very skin that will count.

 

[Pict]

On 11/27/2021 at 3:05 AM, Gambit21 said:

Here's a 6K texture I did some years back (on my own 3D Mustang model) of another squadrons/D model

 

That's mighty impressive Gambit, any chance of seeing some more of it?

[Gambit21]

10 hours ago, Pict said:

 

That's mighty impressive Gambit, any chance of seeing some more of it?

 

Sure, I'll PM you.

I don't post the whole illustration online.

 

[Rjel]

I think sometimes some of the pictures we find online might have been censored during the war as the data blocks appear smeared, not simply worn down by the elements. Perhaps those pictures were used for publication and edited for security reasons.

 

I try to include the complete date block on my P-51 skins. But, it isn't as easy as one would assume. While there are some P-51Ds photos that display all the information, that is S/N and the Special Project Number, there is still some mystery about how the Special Project Number corresponds with the serial numbers. VA_SOLIDKREATE did a lot of work in that regard. I've known each model block has a different Special Project Number but somewhere within each model block that number will sometimes be different. The same holds true for the P-47 and I assume the other Pursuit planes flown by the USAAF in WWII. I've went through all the books I have, several online tech manuals, pdfs and countless hours of web searches. It's still a mystery to me. So, when in doubt, I'll pick a project number that is in the same model block and call it close.  

[Gambit21]

20 hours ago, Rjel said:

I think sometimes some of the pictures we find online might have been censored during the war as the data blocks appear smeared,

 

Nah.

I have photos of nearly every 352nd Mustang and in almost every case that data block is missing or scrubbed and replaced with other artwork - seems like just squadron/crew preference. Might have just been the "cool" thing to do, like taking the reflectors off of your bike because only dorks leave them on.

 

Often instead of the data, there's a "credits" block with the names of the crew, crew chief, armorer etc. Sometimes it's other artwork like in this case.

 

At any rate this data block is present on some aircraft, but it's the exception rather than the rule at least in the 352nd and it seems other squadrons as well. There are times when it is present, but so worn/weathered that it doesn't show in a grainy photo. Moonbeam McSwine is a good example of this. I have some high-res'ish photos of her however.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's the data block on Whisners bird from my render, done true to life.

You can see in his case he left it, but it's mostly worn away.

 

 

 

Not sure why the image darkens when posted - original is not like this.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Gambit21

[Rjel]

1 hour ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Nah.

 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this. I can't speak to every airplane in every group but I have seen countless photos that display the entire data block. Even though a lot of pictures are not always clear enough to make out what the numbers are, they are there. I'm sure different groups had different policies where the data plate might have been over painted with group or personal markings. Not trying to be argumentative but considering the size of the USAAF in WWII, I'm sure there are plenty of examples to support both of our positions.

 

[Gambit21]

We don't disagree.

Like I said I have photos of most of the 352nd Mustangs...there were many others from other squadrons in the theater.