Pulled the trigger on the Varjo Aero ?

[messsucher]

2 hours ago, RAAF492SQNOz_Steve said:

  In reality, the HP Reverb G2 is a very good headset for sims if you can accept it's some what small sweet spot.

 

Have you tried Vive Pro? If so, can you tell how it compares to G2 regarding that sweet spot?

[RAAF492SQNOz_Steve]

19 minutes ago, messsucher said:

 

Have you tried Vive Pro? If so, can you tell how it compares to G2 regarding that sweet spot?

Sorry, have only used the Rift S, Reverb G2 and now the Aero. Hopefully someone else on the forum can give you an informed answer.

[dburne]

4 hours ago, RAAF492SQNOz_Steve said:

Seems like a reasonable approach if you have the ability to fight off the urge to get the latest and greatest in tech.  In reality, the HP Reverb G2 is a very good headset for sims if you can accept it's some what small sweet spot.

 

The advantage of waiting is also that a competitor may come up with a headset that has a better FOV. Think it will be quite a while before the clarity of the Aero will be beaten.

 

Suspect that the big challenge, for new Aero users, is getting head to HMD positioning correct. Aspherical lenses are great but it appears that correct eye position is critical to getting the best clarity and minimal chromatic effects. That has been my experience with the Aero.

 

Fresnel lenses have more tolerance to minor errors in positioning or HMD fitment but inherently come with other negative characteristics.

 

Fully agree finding that correct head position makes all the difference. Once you get it though everything becomes so sharp and clear.

[Patricks]

15 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

Fully agree finding that correct head position makes all the difference. Once you get it though everything becomes so sharp and clear.

 

Don - did you get the Studioform kit? I have one on the way as many have said it make the Aero fitment/positioning much better and takes all the weight off your face..

[dburne]

2 minutes ago, Icer said:

 

Don - did you get the Studioform kit? I have one on the way as many have said it make the Aero fitment/positioning much better and takes all the weight off your face..

 

I have one on the way as well, scheduled delivery says Wed the 16th.

Anxious to try it.

Edited February 10, 2022 by dburne

[Patricks]

17 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

I have one on the way as well, scheduled delivery says Wed the 16th.

Anxious to try it.

 

Big difference is you have a headset to put it on... 

[Guest deleted@134347]

oh well, I finally broke down and blew away my Win10 install to get it in to a pristine state.

 

The result is the same = no tracking.

 

I have a feeling I've got a bad HMD. Why oh whyyyy.. ?

 

[dburne]

43 minutes ago, omicron_21 said:

oh well, I finally broke down and blew away my Win10 install to get it in to a pristine state.

 

The result is the same = no tracking.

 

I have a feeling I've got a bad HMD. Why oh whyyyy.. ?

 

 

Oh man that is terrible, sorry to hear that. Hopefully they get you squared away asap.

[RAAF492SQNOz_Steve]

On 2/10/2022 at 1:20 PM, TAIPAN_ said:

I'm thinking I might be better off waiting until the pre order period is over and they're available retail.. so I can let all you guinea pigs sort out the issues before I take the risk

I just don't have the patience to deal with this, even basic tuning is enough time usage without having these kind of things..

Maybe the price will even come down

Varjo Aero with delivery listed for Mid March and a couple of hundred dollars cheaper than what I paid if you use the ebay $300 AUD discount voucher.

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/125136883117?chn=ps&_ul=AU&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=705-139619-5960-0&mkcid=2&itemid=125136883117&targetid=1278430613656&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9071457&poi=&campaignid=10101784994&mkgroupid=125571290311&rlsatarget=pla-1278430613656&abcId=9300367&merchantid=508432619&gclid=Cj0KCQiAjJOQBhCkARIsAEKMtO3tMa-F24icKV5A6vOmWzKHJSTYU6NQZ84cIFO5HuaXPXFFf3rMVycaAjPwEALw_wcB

 

I have purchased from this supplier before and did not have any issues. If you do not want to use the link above just go to Ebay Australian site and search for Varjo Aero.   Must admit that the amount of Varjo Aero stock I see listed for Australian retailers does make me wonder if they will be able to sell that many units. Do not know if the "High End" VR market in Austalia is all that large.

Edited February 11, 2022 by RAAF492SQNOz_Steve

[chiliwili69]

One of the deepest analysis of the Aero (by RoV) , but it is in Spanish (so google translate):

 

https://www.realovirtual.com/articulos/5978/analisis-varjo-aero

 

This MiniLED technique makes the 2 panels mounted by the Varjo Aero (one per eye) the reference in LED technology applied to a VR headset and a global viewing experience that is superior to anything we are used to due, above all, to its resolution and its pixel density.

 

On the performance side, it runs with frametimes always below 11.1ms (solid 90fps) with a 3080Ti and 3844x3296 per eye (Varjo High settings and 150%SS SteamVR, that is 25.3 Million total pixels!) with Aircar (this game uses Unreal engine, IL-2 might be different).

 

On the geometric distortion/Chroma aberration they report the known issues as well and provide a visual example of it. About correcting that they say:

The error map generated by this lens is not fully corrected by the shader and at the moment, with the January 2022 firmware on this unit that they have sent us, they are still too evident in many areas of the eyebox. Remember that not every aberration can be corrected by process. Although deformation (geometric) and chromatic (color) errors can be counteracted with a certain calculation, the loss of focus (astigmatism) is immutable once it occurs.

 

The Vertical FOV measured by them is 80º, which is the lowest from all modern devices. They also mention that the Aero has also the smallest stereo Overlap (69º):

In any VR headset, the image shared by the right eye and the left eye should be as wide as possible, but to achieve a greater FOV, all manufacturers move the panels and optics from the center to the ends, gaining lateral vision but losing stereo in the center.

 

The problem with a small Overlap is the effect of Binocular Rivalry that can occur.

 

Another problem of a narrow Overlap is the discomfort that occurs in the vision (derived from ocular rivalry) when an object is drawn in the center of the Overlap. One eye will be able to see the entire object while part of it will be hidden from the other. Reverb G2, for example, has a value of 84º and Quest 2 a value of 90º (Index has 93º). Varjo Aero's 69º might be obvious to a certain group of users who are more prone to this disparity in stereo.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

8 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

One of the deepest analysis of the Aero (by RoV) , but it is in Spanish (so google translate):

 

https://www.realovirtual.com/articulos/5978/analisis-varjo-aero

 

This MiniLED technique makes the 2 panels mounted by the Varjo Aero (one per eye) the reference in LED technology applied to a VR headset and a global viewing experience that is superior to anything we are used to due, above all, to its resolution and its pixel density.

 

On the performance side, it runs with frametimes always below 11.1ms (solid 90fps) with a 3080Ti and 3844x3296 per eye (Varjo High settings and 150%SS SteamVR, that is 25.3 Million total pixels!) with Aircar (this game uses Unreal engine, IL-2 might be different).

 

On the geometric distortion/Chroma aberration they report the known issues as well and provide a visual example of it. About correcting that they say:

The error map generated by this lens is not fully corrected by the shader and at the moment, with the January 2022 firmware on this unit that they have sent us, they are still too evident in many areas of the eyebox. Remember that not every aberration can be corrected by process. Although deformation (geometric) and chromatic (color) errors can be counteracted with a certain calculation, the loss of focus (astigmatism) is immutable once it occurs.

 

The Vertical FOV measured by them is 80º, which is the lowest from all modern devices. They also mention that the Aero has also the smallest stereo Overlap (69º):

In any VR headset, the image shared by the right eye and the left eye should be as wide as possible, but to achieve a greater FOV, all manufacturers move the panels and optics from the center to the ends, gaining lateral vision but losing stereo in the center.

 

The problem with a small Overlap is the effect of Binocular Rivalry that can occur.

 

Another problem of a narrow Overlap is the discomfort that occurs in the vision (derived from ocular rivalry) when an object is drawn in the center of the Overlap. One eye will be able to see the entire object while part of it will be hidden from the other. Reverb G2, for example, has a value of 84º and Quest 2 a value of 90º (Index has 93º). Varjo Aero's 69º might be obvious to a certain group of users who are more prone to this disparity in stereo.

Stereo / binocular overlap is very important to feel presence. The feeling of presence is something very powerful. Some people cannot even experience that. But it is of utmost important, at least to me. Very interesting.

[Patricks]

I've pulled the plug on my Aero order through VRExpert (NL) back in early December. Promised mid-January delivery so I had a business sponsor my order (they are business only) and as such paid in advance, in full. Around January 20 I get a message it will be a couple more weeks. Yesterday I get a message that mid-May at the earliest. I was looking forward to it but just too many problems both with the headset and the availability. I'll wait and see what comes out in the next year and look at the VR situation again, until then i'll muddle through with what I have.

 

Best of luck to all that get one!

Edited February 15, 2022 by Icer

[dburne]

2 hours ago, Icer said:

I've pulled the plug on my Aero order through VRExpert (NL) back in early December. Promised mid-January delivery so I had a business sponsor my order (they are business only) and as such paid in advance, in full. Around January 20 I get a message it will be a couple more weeks. Yesterday I get a message that mid-May at the earliest. I was looking forward to it but just too many problems both with the headset and the availability. I'll wait and see what comes out in the next year and look at the VR situation again, until then i'll muddle through with what I have.

 

Best of luck to all that get one!

 

Yeah that is crazy on delivery.

I think like any product launch the problem posts are going to appear prevalent anyway and may not reflect as a heavy number versus the number of units shipped. Only Varjo would know that. I am sure there are plenty like me that are still very pleased with the unit. Tomorrow will be the 3 week mark of me having this headset, and I am averaging so far probably between 5-6 hours a day of flight sims with it.

 

I get it though it is a crap load of money to put into VR especially if one does not already have the tracking system. Hopefully as  time moves along this type of technology will trickle down to less expensive/higher volume headsets. I am sure it likely will. 

It would be interesting to know the reason behind the long lead times - is it because of headset issues or because of unexpected demand for the product, or maybe combination of both. Something else I guess only Varjo would know.

Edited February 15, 2022 by dburne

[WIS-Redcoat]

Going on four weeks for me and I still adore this headset.  The software definitely needs some time to mature but I am still very pleased.

[Guest deleted@134347]

posted my update in dburne's review thread, here's the repeat:

 

- solved my tracking problems with Aero using V2 base stations

- if you have v1's and plan on getting Aero expect to get some questionable/flaky/non-working operation. Trust me after I dealt with it for 1.5 weeks.  Even though Varjo states v1 base stations are supported the reality is pretty crappy. SteamVR and Varjo both "see" the v1 base stations, they register with SteamVR and both display proper channels, however Aero HMD just doesn't like using them.

[Patricks]

19 hours ago, dburne said:

 

Yeah that is crazy on delivery.

I think like any product launch the problem posts are going to appear prevalent anyway and may not reflect as a heavy number versus the number of units shipped. Only Varjo would know that. I am sure there are plenty like me that are still very pleased with the unit. Tomorrow will be the 3 week mark of me having this headset, and I am averaging so far probably between 5-6 hours a day of flight sims with it.

 

I get it though it is a crap load of money to put into VR especially if one does not already have the tracking system. Hopefully as  time moves along this type of technology will trickle down to less expensive/higher volume headsets. I am sure it likely will. 

It would be interesting to know the reason behind the long lead times - is it because of headset issues or because of unexpected demand for the product, or maybe combination of both. Something else I guess only Varjo would know.

 

Thing is with a business purchase (like VRExpert) I expected to be treated better and made the "assumption" they ordered X number of headsets in advance. What I think possibly happened is they got one or several larger orders form real commercial customers and they simply screwed me. Telling me Mid-May, I could simply order from Varjo direct today myself and have it by (or possibly before!) then, AND have the ability to return in 14 days (no "i'm just not pleased" returns for business).. I still may buy one (already have the StudioForm headstrap for it sitting here) but now i'll relax and see what happens with it with a bit of maturity. I was buying for the clarity I have with my flatscreens, no other headset is even promising that yet... 

[Guest deleted@134347]

2 hours ago, Icer said:

 

Thing is with a business purchase (like VRExpert) I expected to be treated better and made the "assumption" they ordered X number of headsets in advance. What I think possibly happened is they got one or several larger orders form real commercial customers and they simply screwed me. Telling me Mid-May, I could simply order from Varjo direct today myself and have it by (or possibly before!) then, AND have the ability to return in 14 days (no "i'm just not pleased" returns for business).. I still may buy one (already have the StudioForm headstrap for it sitting here) but now i'll relax and see what happens with it with a bit of maturity. I was buying for the clarity I have with my flatscreens, no other headset is even promising that yet... 

 

heard from Varjo that Fedex facilities in China and Hong Kong  are operating at reduced capacity (like 90% reduced) due to renewed covid lock downs. Even folks with RMA'ed HMD's are affected.

[Patricks]

21 minutes ago, omicron_21 said:

 

heard from Varjo that Fedex facilities in China and Hong Kong  are operating at reduced capacity (like 90% reduced) due to renewed covid lock downs. Even folks with RMA'ed HMD's are affected.

 

Fully understand delays, but to say you won't receive it for 4 months (total of 6 months) is fng ridiculous, especially for a business order.. 

[Guest deleted@134347]

1 hour ago, Icer said:

 

Fully understand delays, but to say you won't receive it for 4 months (total of 6 months) is fng ridiculous, especially for a business order.. 

 

I suspect that with one other Varjo office being in Arlington, VA (i.e. across the river from Washington DC) they have some US Federal customers, possibly even Dept of Defense, Military, etc.. which is a huge cash cow, meaning their product shipping prioritization is a bit skewed.

 

 

[Patricks]

27 minutes ago, omicron_21 said:

 

I suspect that with one other Varjo office being in Arlington, VA (i.e. across the river from Washington DC) they have some US Federal customers, possibly even Dept of Defense, Military, etc.. which is a huge cash cow, meaning their product shipping prioritization is a bit skewed.

 

 

 

No idea, i'm in Europe.. 

[LukeFF]

3 hours ago, omicron_21 said:

 

I suspect that with one other Varjo office being in Arlington, VA (i.e. across the river from Washington DC) they have some US Federal customers, possibly even Dept of Defense, Military, etc.. which is a huge cash cow, meaning their product shipping prioritization is a bit skewed.

 

The USAF in particular is making an increased use of VR for pilot training, and in one article I saw they were using the Vive Pro 2. Doesn't say anything about Varjo, but it would not surprise me to discover they have federal contracts. 

Edited February 16, 2022 by LukeFF

[dburne]

Yeah I think Varjo does a pretty big business in the Aerospace industry overall.

[kissTheSky]

1 hour ago, LukeFF said:

 

The USAF in particular is making an increased use of VR for pilot training, and in one article I saw they were using the Vive Pro 2. Doesn't say anything about Varjo, but it would not surprise me to discover they have federal contracts. 

Yeah, one of their showcases was how NASA/Boeing joint training (remote as well) were making use of VR3/XR3 HMDs. I wouldn’t be surprised that there might be clients they would have to kill us if they told us whom. Or else why would they advertise they removed the connected activation feature for SCIF spaces. :hide:

 

 

[Panzerlang]

When I got the original Rift I was blown away by what was my very first VR experience but I could immediately see there was a long way to go. What blew me away next was how fast the improvements came; first the Oculus, then the G2. And with the G2 it's at a place (for me) of not needing to be better resolution-wise. When they get to full-peripheral FOV, I'll get the wallet out again. Lol.

[dburne]

Some through the lens footage by David T. with the Aero and MSFS 2020.

 

 

[Drum]

Ordered mine last night:  Varjo Aero Prescription Lens Adapter - VR Optician

[TheSNAFU]

1 hour ago, Drum said:

Ordered mine last night:  Varjo Aero Prescription Lens Adapter - VR Optician

I have g2 but got my vr prescription lens from VR Optician. They were outstanding to deal with, were delivered very fast and work perfectly. They have changed vr for me by liberating me from wearing glasses in the headset. 

[Drum]

Glad to hear your reply about them being outstanding, it's the first time I delt with them, but considering they are the first to make Aero caps I chose to switch to them this time around.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

The Varjo Aero has been delivered to me a few days ago.

 

Review will follow in its own thread during the week.

Edited February 28, 2022 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[Varibraun]

After spending months on the fence, I too decided to pull the trigger and ordered the Aero today.  I appreciate everyone taking their time to review and share their experiences, and since it will be several months of waiting for arrival, I look forward to hearing from others as the units get into their hands.

 

I ultimately decided based on the comments about sharpness, edge to edge clarity and the fact that I am already used to a fairly narrow G2 FOV.  Because of the expense (I need the whole package with base stations), I decided to sacrifice my Yaw2 Preorder for now though 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Varibraun

[dburne]

3 hours ago, Varibraun said:

After spending months on the fence, I decided to pull the trigger and ordered the Aero today.  I appreciate everyone taking their time to review and share their experiences, and since it will be several months of waiting for arrival, I look forward to hearing from others as the units get into their hands.

 

I ultimately decided based on the comments about sharpness, edge to edge clarity and the fact that I am already used to a fairly narrow G2 FOV.  Because of the expense (I need the whole package with base stations), I decided to sacrifice my Yaw2 Preorder for now though 

 

Congrats! Hope it is not too long a wait for you.

[chiliwili69]

On 2/12/2022 at 1:51 PM, chiliwili69 said:

One of the deepest analysis of the Aero (by RoV) , but it is in Spanish (so google translate):

 

https://www.realovirtual.com/articulos/5978/analisis-varjo-aero

 

It seem there has been a firmware update (0.17.0.462) in April for the Aero aimed to correct the chromatic aberrations. It has resulted also in an increased FOV:

 

FOV before:

    horizontal:  97.43 deg

    vertical:    80.69 deg

    diagonal:   111.48 deg

    overlap:     69.35 deg

 

FOV after update:

    horizontal: 109.19 deg

    vertical:    82.94 deg

    diagonal:   119.57 deg

    overlap:     69.28 deg

 

more here (Spanish):https://www.realovirtual.com/articulos/5978/analisis-varjo-aero

[dburne]

3 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

It seem there has been a firmware update (0.17.0.462) in April for the Aero aimed to correct the chromatic aberrations. It has resulted also in an increased FOV:

 

FOV before:

    horizontal:  97.43 deg

    vertical:    80.69 deg

    diagonal:   111.48 deg

    overlap:     69.35 deg

 

FOV after update:

    horizontal: 109.19 deg

    vertical:    82.94 deg

    diagonal:   119.57 deg

    overlap:     69.28 deg

 

more here (Spanish):https://www.realovirtual.com/articulos/5978/analisis-varjo-aero

 

April?

The last update we had was on March 7th.

It included firmware 0.17.0.462. Some did comment seemed like the horizontal FOV was better. I thought mine seemed better but figured it was placebo. So maybe not Placebo.

Edited April 5, 2022 by dburne

[chiliwili69]

8 hours ago, dburne said:

April?

They said this month, and the date of the publishing was yesterday. But the important number is the number of the update, so it is March then.

[dburne]

1 hour ago, chiliwili69 said:

They said this month, and the date of the publishing was yesterday. But the important number is the number of the update, so it is March then.

 

Yeah if you read on down though it states it is a continuation of an article dated 2/7/22.

Anyway interesting that the official release notes mentioned nothing about a fov change.

https://varjo.com/downloads/release-notes/

 

However some users after updating did comment that they "thought" the fov seemed a little larger. I myself really could not tell, seemed like maybe a little but I figured it was maybe placebo. But if they measured it accurately it would seem to be the case. Not really sure how they could increase a fov in the same lenses. I also "thought" mine seemed a little bigger after inserting my new VR Optician inserts, but who knows. I think the Experimental New Distortion Correction had a lot to do with that and was the hero of this update. I can't wait to see what they pull with the next update.

 

I guess in my case being an Aero owner and heavy user, it might feel a little different but I can't really say for sure. In any case I am enjoying the heck out of it for sure. But the changes they made in that update went a long way in improving things overall and contributed to even greater practically edge to edge clarity all around.

Edited April 5, 2022 by dburne

[chiliwili69]

11 hours ago, dburne said:

Not really sure how they could increase a fov in the same lenses

 

The change was in the firmware of the device, which change the software geometry values used for the OpenVR interface.

The FOV was calculated with the tool "hmdq" produced risa2000. It is here: https://github.com/risa2000/hmdq

And the values for all devices: https://risa2000.github.io/hmdgdb/

 

This hmdq calculated FOV is the geometrically maximum FOV achievable by the device. It is calculated just via software based on the angle, distance and viewing frustum coded in every software of every device using OpenVR. More here: https://risa2000.github.io/vrdocs/docs/hmd_fov_calculation.html

 

In the RoV article they said that they have also validated those values with the "subjetive" tool testhmd, which is the common tool used by most of the youtubers and is subjetive because it depends on the shape of the fave and eyes of every individual. This tool is this one: https://knob2001.itch.io/testhmd

 

So, it was not placebo, it was real!

 

It is really a pitty that the vertical FOV is not great. Otherwise I will not doubt to grabe the Aero.

[kissTheSky]

Very interesting. I wouldn’t have thought they’d have increase fov by firmware but it makes sense if they changed the openvr geometry. 
 

As I wrote in another forum recently, the future is bright for us VR users, soon we may have PiMax level of FOV with Aero level edge to edge clarity and resolution with G2 ergonomics and price!

[Drum]

I finally just got my two week notice that the Aero is ready to be sent through the air to me; over a four month wait so far because of how bad Covd-19 is flaring up in Asia.  20 thousand a day being infected now.

 

Regarding the vertical FOV being lower at the top of the Aero's HMD, that's a good thing for a flight and racing sim because by just lowering one's head a little, you should be able to block out the sun glare similar to using one's eye brows, helmet or goggle rims in real life.  With these round lenses on the G2 I'm always trying to duck behind the cockpit framing which isn't realistic IMO as we'd only need to raise one hand in RL.

 

Does the Aero doing that well, dburne?

Edited April 6, 2022 by Drum

[dburne]

1 hour ago, Drum said:

I finally just got my two week notice that the Aero is ready to be sent through the air to me; over a four month wait so far because of how bad Covd-19 is flaring up in Asia.  20 thousand a day being infected now.

 

Regarding the vertical FOV being lower at the top of the Aero's HMD, that's a good thing for a flight and racing sim because by just lowering one's head a little, you should be able to block out the sun glare similar to using one's eye brows, helmet or goggle rims in real life.  With these round lenses on the G2 I'm always trying to duck behind the cockpit framing which isn't realistic IMO as we'd only need to raise one hand in RL.

 

Does the Aero doing that well, dburne?

 

Well I suppose that could be considered positive for the small vertical FOV.

Congrats on getting your two week notice! Hopefully not too much longer now.

 

 

1 hour ago, kissTheSky said:

Very interesting. I wouldn’t have thought they’d have increase fov by firmware but it makes sense if they changed the openvr geometry. 
 

As I wrote in another forum recently, the future is bright for us VR users, soon we may have PiMax level of FOV with Aero level edge to edge clarity and resolution with G2 ergonomics and price!

 

If they did can't say I noticed it that much, however I would not be the best to judge on that as I am half blind I only have half my horizontal FOV. Only center and left of center can I see. I am surprised if that is the case they did not tout that in the release notes of the March update.

Edited April 6, 2022 by dburne

[SCG_motoadve]

Got my email from Varjo too.  Your order is shipping soon ?