Is There Such A Thing As "Too Much" GPU for FC VR MP?

[Todt_Von_Oben]

I have a 2004 Cybertron: Asrock 110M-DGS motherboard and chipset; Intel Core i5 6500 @ 3.2; GTX 1050ti; 8gb RAM; stock CH Fighterstick and Pro Pedals; TIR / Oculus Rift.

 

I've flown this box for almost 17 years and it's been fine for RB3D, WOFF, ROF and FC in 2D with TIR and up to a 49" curved Samsung monitor.  Had to upgrade to the 1050ti when I added the Rift for VR a few years ago and these components have been adequate but not impressive; gotta keep the values low and even then the image smears when we dogfight in MP at Flugpark.

 

I'm looking at pre-built gaming computers available on websites where you can customize by changing components.  I can see reasons (economy) for buying a hotter i5 with a better GPU and Windows 10.  I can also see reasons (the future) for going with an i9 and Windows 11 with an outrageous GPU (double?  SLI?), but the price and availability of some are a problem.  The GPU I'd really like to have is pretty much unobtanium and I don't need a computer that costs four to six thousand dollars.

 

Tonight, I'm leaning toward an Intel Core i7 or a Ryzen 7 3800X @ 4.5 ghz with a GTX 1660 6GB and 16 gigs RAM running W10 64 bit; HD and SSD, VR ready;  $2142.00 includes mouse and keyboard.  I think that would be pretty good for Flying Circus in VR with the Rift.

 

(We also have the Oculus Quest2 but I'm still using the CL1 because, with our present CPU and GPU, the difference really isn't that much at all.  I'm expecting better components will provide better imagery.  Then again, in the future I might want to go to a better headset, so that's something I'm also keeping in mind.)

 

QUESTIONS:

 

1. If you built / bought a computer in 2021 for use with VR sims like Flying Circus, what components did you choose and how do you like it?

 

2. If (like me) you're presently looking to buy, what choices of CPU, GPU, RAM, Power Pack, fans or coolant system are you thinking of for FC VR?

 

I mean, IL2 - FC aren't new sims..  I don't play Cyberpunk or Fortnight, GTA or any FPS games but I hear they require a lot from the computer.  I'm wondering if IL2-FC isn't less demanding of the system; and if building an "Overkill Rig" would be mostly wasted here.

That's part of my reason for staying a little better than mid-range in my choices.  I'm thinking they'll be good enough for a sim with the complexity of the Sturmovik engine, et al.  I'm not interested in other games; I just like to dogfight biplanes in VR so I'm focused on FC.  Not trying to build the baddest computer on Earth; just want one that presents FC VR in its best light without a lot of unnecessary complexity or expense.

Then again, Tabasco recently said his Intel i7 is giving him graphic grief; Raker and others concluded it was his computer.   I think in that case it's more a question of processor speed than type: not all versions of the i7 were created equal.  The one I'd get is a 9700K; I think Phil's is older and slower than that (3300?) and I think that's part of his problem.

Basically, I want the best VR dogfighting experience I can get with FC and I'm unsure whether a double GPU SLI would really make it look that much better than a conventional setup with capabilities beyond what the Developers recommend.

 

(Funny thing is: if a double GPU did make the VR experience a whole lot better, I think I'd want one and the price is something I'd have to live with.)

 

So I'm wondering if a super fast / super capable rig isn't overkill and wouldn't be mostly wasted on FC?  Maybe I should have asked this way:

 

3. Are you  running a super-capable GPU?  Which? 

 

4. Is it a double?  SLI?  And if so, what's that like in FC VR MP?

 

 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2021 by Todt_Von_Oben

[Confused_2018]

Gamers nexus did a number of reviews on prebuilts if you are looking at those.

 

https://www.youtube.com/c/GamersNexus/search?query=prebuilt

 

Some reviews are a year old, others 5-6 months.

[dburne]

And no there is no such thing as too much GPU for VR flying.

Currently 3090 is still cream of the crop but it too is not enough.

Most any 30xx though will give decent performance in IL-2. Go according to budget,

[Todt_Von_Oben]

54 minutes ago, dburne said:

And no there is no such thing as too much GPU for VR flying.

 

 

THAT'S what I was hoping to have affirmed.  Thank you.  But to be clear: not just for VR flying in general but FC in particular.  I'm wondering if the sim's requirements might be so far below today's super GPU capabilities that no further improvement to the perceived VR image can be gained by upgrading beyond what works well enough.  And when I think it through, I guess all it can do is make the sim look as good as it can possibly look; maybe just do that easier if not better.  So I guess I'll buy a "pretty good" one and probably be happy with that.  But if I do I'll always be wondering how much better it might have looked if I'd gotten the warp-drive GPU.  Hmmmm....

 

ADDIT:  My wife and I talked it over.  She's right; there should be more considered in buying a new computer than just how well it will play FC.  If we're going to invest it should be in the future.  The i9's come with Windows 11.  I'm researching dual SLI GPU and liquid cooling.  It'll be expensive but we can buy it on time, pay it off at zero interest in 18 months, and that will look good on the old credit report. ?

 

 

 

Confused_2018: will check link to Gamers Nexus.  Thank you.

Edited November 18, 2021 by Todt_Von_Oben

[dburne]

3 hours ago, Todt_Von_Oben said:

 

 

THAT'S what I was hoping to have affirmed.  Thank you.  But to be clear: not just for VR flying in general but FC in particular.  I'm wondering if the sim's requirements might be so far below today's super GPU capabilities that no further improvement to the perceived VR image can be gained by upgrading beyond what works well enough.  And when I think it through, I guess all it can do is make the sim look as good as it can possibly look; maybe just do that easier if not better.  So I guess I'll buy a "pretty good" one and probably be happy with that.  But if I do I'll always be wondering how much better it might have looked if I'd gotten the warp-drive GPU.  Hmmmm....

 

ADDIT:  My wife and I talked it over.  She's right; there should be more considered in buying a new computer than just how well it will play FC.  If we're going to invest it should be in the future.  The i9's come with Windows 11.  I'm researching dual SLI GPU and liquid cooling.  It'll be expensive but we can buy it on time, pay it off at zero interest in 18 months, and that will look good on the old credit report. ?

 

 

 

Confused_2018: will check link to Gamers Nexus.  Thank you.

 

Just so you know there is no benefit for SLI in any VR games. If you have other 2d games or applications you want it for that is ok, but don't do it for just VR gaming.

[Confused_2018]

Linus tech SLI & 3090

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1dGQiNfCAc

 

There are other vids explaining why on YT.  But sli looks to be dead.

 

Edit: There are some folks who feel that VR is not quite there yet.  Research flight simming vr pros and cons. I eventually want to get a vr rig/system, but I refuse to pay the current GPU prices.  While I am waiting and saving what I can, hopefully HMD units get better.

 

Just my 2 cents.

Edited November 18, 2021 by Confused_2018

[=420=Syphen]

SLI is dead. The 980/980Ti was the last good SLI rig.  By the time the GTX 1080Ti was around, the nails were already in the coffin for it. 

 

The only people going multi GPU these days are pretty much crypto miners. 

 

I'm running a 3080Ti for my Reverb G2, and it's great for IL2. I could still crank the resolution of the Reverb G2 more if I had a better rig.  DCS needs even more power.

Off the shelf, today, a top of the line rig still won't be good enough to fully crank all settings and resolutions for high resolution VR setups that are currently available. 

[Todt_Von_Oben]

Many thanks; especially for the last three responses.  (y)

 

SLI was something I only heard about recently and it sounded like it might have advantages but I stand gratefully advised as to its unsuitability for VR.  SLI is toast. 

 

Looked at high end prebuilts for several hours last night.  I've been looking at so many computers lately I'm losing track.  I think I'm getting it narrowed down, though.  Your G2 will help a lot; thanks for sharing.

 

Prosit!

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

10 minutes ago, Todt_Von_Oben said:

Many thanks; especially for the last three responses.  (y)

 

SLI was something I only heard about recently and it sounded like it might have advantages but I stand gratefully advised as to its unsuitability for VR.  SLI is toast. 

 

Looked at high end prebuilts for several hours last night.  I've been looking at so many computers lately I'm losing track.  I think I'm getting it narrowed down, though.  Your G2 will help a lot; thanks for sharing.

 

Prosit!

You really want either a Ryzen 5600-5900X, or an Intel Alder Lake 12th Gen i5-i9 for IL-2 VR, paired with 32 GB of fast ddr4 ram with tight timings. As for the GPU, whatever you can find will do as long as it is nothing less than an RTX 3070. I have a 3080 and it is satisfactory.

[Todt_Von_Oben]

12 hours ago, Confused_2018 said:

Edit: There are some folks who feel that VR is not quite there yet.  Research flight simming vr pros and cons. I eventually want to get a vr rig/system, but I refuse to pay the current GPU prices.  While I am waiting and saving what I can, hopefully HMD units get better.

 

I hear ya about the price of these hi-perf processors; it seems awfully high.  Availability of popular items is down, too.

 

I've only been flying VR (Rift) since FC came out.  I really enjoy it and hope a better rig will improve the VR experience.  But I don't think I'll buy a better headset until the next really big technical advancement occurs.  I'll be happy with my Rift and Quest 2 until then.

[Todt_Von_Oben]

I feel like the info I've received here is helping me make a more enlightened selection.  I haven't decided yet but how's this look for FC VR? 

 

Processor: Intel Core i9-11900K (5.3 GHz Turbo) (16-Thread) (8-Core) 3.5 GHz (Rocket Lake)
 

Motherboard: ASUS Prime Z590-P / MSI Z590-A Pro (Intel Z590 Chipset) (Up to 2x PCI-E Devices) (No SLI Support)
 

System Memory: 32GB DDR4 3200MHz Digital Storm Performance Series
 

Power Supply: 850W Digital Storm Performance Series (Modular) (80 Plus Gold)
 

Storage Set 1: 1x SSD M.2 (1TB Digital Storm M.2 Performance Series)
 

Graphics Card(s): 1x GeForce RTX 3090 24GB (VR Ready) (Founders Edition)
 

Extreme Cooling: H20: Stage 2: Digital Storm Vortex Liquid CPU Cooler (Dual Fan) (Fully Sealed + No Maintenance)
 

TOTAL: $3760.00 

 

That's a lot of money; the GPU prices are awfully high.   But if this will  make FC run extremely well in VR MP, I'll do it. 

 

I'm not buying a second drive because I already have one and my understanding is that this MB supports 2 PCI-E devices so I believe I can just install and run my old drive as a secondary, no?

 

Anyway, gents, thanks for the intel and tips.  This is helping a lot.  Muchly appreciated.

[=420=Syphen]

That's a pretty darn good rig. You'll get good performance with a Reverb G2, Index, or Vive 2 Pro .. or whatever fancy HMD you want. I'd personally steer clear of the Quest 2. I know some people love them because for the cost they are decent - but other options on the market are just so much better.

[YouBet]

To be sure, that's a lot of money.

 

Having said that, I couldn't build that system for that price. The 3090 is a budget-buster.

 

I built a similar system a few months ago. I don't play FC, but my system runs GB over a Reverb well. Initially, I ran the GPU with its stock cooling fans (like your listed system would). I was regularly getting GPU temps above 85C under load -- certainly within limits but uncomfortable for me given the price of the 3090 (EVGA FTW 3090). Ultimately, I installed a custom water loop for both the CPU and GPU -- which further ballooned the cost. Runs well, though.

 

Best of luck with whatever you choose -- it is a truly fabulous game in VR.

[[CPT]Crunch]

Why the slower memory, the 11900K is specifically built to handle 4000hz and greater memory, something the lesser 11000 series can't, you'd save half your CPU costs by selecting a 11600K and not lose out using that memory.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

7 hours ago, Todt_Von_Oben said:

I feel like the info I've received here is helping me make a more enlightened selection.  I haven't decided yet but how's this look for FC VR? 

 

Processor: Intel Core i9-11900K (5.3 GHz Turbo) (16-Thread) (8-Core) 3.5 GHz (Rocket Lake)
 

Motherboard: ASUS Prime Z590-P / MSI Z590-A Pro (Intel Z590 Chipset) (Up to 2x PCI-E Devices) (No SLI Support)
 

System Memory: 32GB DDR4 3200MHz Digital Storm Performance Series
 

Power Supply: 850W Digital Storm Performance Series (Modular) (80 Plus Gold)
 

Storage Set 1: 1x SSD M.2 (1TB Digital Storm M.2 Performance Series)
 

Graphics Card(s): 1x GeForce RTX 3090 24GB (VR Ready) (Founders Edition)
 

Extreme Cooling: H20: Stage 2: Digital Storm Vortex Liquid CPU Cooler (Dual Fan) (Fully Sealed + No Maintenance)
 

TOTAL: $3760.00 

 

That's a lot of money; the GPU prices are awfully high.   But if this will  make FC run extremely well in VR MP, I'll do it. 

 

I'm not buying a second drive because I already have one and my understanding is that this MB supports 2 PCI-E devices so I believe I can just install and run my old drive as a secondary, no?

 

Anyway, gents, thanks for the intel and tips.  This is helping a lot.  Muchly appreciated.

This is a good rig, take it before you decide otherwise. You won't regret it.

 

See it like this:

You spend 1-3 hours per evening with it, such is the average time played by most guys, right?

 

I know guys that finance 55k € cars but ride 30mins per day in it. And cheap out on pc hardware which they use 3-4 hours in the evening. Such choices make no sense to me tbh. :))

 

So if it's your hobby, by all means, go for it !

 

Edited November 19, 2021 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[Todt_Von_Oben]

9 hours ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

Why the slower memory, the 11900K is specifically built to handle 4000hz and greater memory, something the lesser 11000 series can't, you'd save half your CPU costs by selecting a 11600K and not lose out using that memory.

 

First of all: SYPHON, YOUBET, and WOLF:  Thanks for your insight.  I'm sure all you guys know more about this level of tech than I do and I value your info.

 

Yeah, money is just numbers in a bank account somewhere; it's what it can buy that can either improve or destroy your life.  In this case, FCVR is the only kind of flying I get to do anymore and I'm amazed how far the genre has progressed since Red Baron; I absolutely love it.  When I have time, it's a great way to mellow out: flaming Camels.  ?

 

I do a lot of other things but Virtual Reality is something I'm really interested in; bought a YAW and got the parts to build a motion simulator when I find time.  My wife and I both enjoy VR and figure the investment is worth it.  Our philosophy is: buy what makes you happy.  It would really suck to have a big bank account and see the giant asteroid coming.  ?

 

CPT CRUNCH:  The site I was working on has products of varying price and capability; as far as selection, I had a list of choices to pick from.  Based on user reviews and comparisons, I chose the 11900K over the less expensive 1100's based on performance.  There, cost is secondary to me.

 

I chose the 32 gigs RAM because I've been running on the minimum 8; the Devs recommend 16; and I figured 32 would be better.  I didn't consider the relative speeds (or even understand that might be a factor; thanks!) but I'll go back and check to see if there's something better available.  Here again, for me, performance and the VR experience are most important to me.

 

QUESTIONS:

 

5. Since FC works well at 16 gigs RAM, should we expect any real improvement to the VR image with 32 gigs available?

 

6. Then, would there be any real improvement to the VR experience if I used 64 gigs of RAM instead of 32?

 

7. Will pairing my faster 11900K with a slower-rated RAM negatively affect VR?  Or should I spend more for a faster RAM for better performance?  

 

(Going to check to see what RAM speeds are available right now.  Thanks for the help.  Later.)

Edited November 20, 2021 by Todt_Von_Oben

[Charlo-VRde]

I enjoy 80-90 FPS in VR  on full multiplayer servers with this RAM:

 

G.SKILL Trident Z Royal 32GB DDR4 4000 F4-4000C17Q-32GTRS

 

The general consensus I saw in these forums is that 64 Gbs of RAM will not help with VR, and that faster RAM does help, which is why I went with the 4000 Mhz

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

Go for a Ryzen 5600X paired with 4400 MHZ Patriot Viper Ram over the Intel chip. Also, a 3080 TI is basically the same as a 3090 for a lot less.

Edited November 20, 2021 by -332FG-drewm3i-VR

[RAAF492SQNOz_Steve]

2 hours ago, -332FG-drewm3i-VR said:

Go for a Ryzen 5600X paired with 4400 MHZ Patriot Viper Ram over the Intel chip. Also, a 3080 TI is basically the same as a 3090 for a lot less.

I would substantially agree with this with one proviso...........

4400 MHZ Patriot Viper Ram comes in 8 Gb sticks and for most motherboards it is easier to overclock two RAM sticks rather than 4 so you would be limited to 16Gb.

I have used the above RAM and had to return 2 of the four sticks I purchased as two sticks were below spec (actually kept one stick from each set). The pair that I retained had great "tunability"with both Intel and Ryzen CPU's. Good value fast RAM

 

If you are intending to fly MS Flight Sim, 32 Gb may be preferable. i.e. 2 x16Gb

 

Re: CPU choice

I originally started building a PC for VR Flight simming with a Intel 10700KF but was never really happy with the performance of that CPU.

Swapped over to a Ryzen 5800x and got a 10%+ increase in VR FPS with a Reverb G2 running at 100%.  While really annoyed at having to stump up for another motherboard and CPU, the increase in IL2 VR performance made it a worthwhile exercise.

[Todt_Von_Oben]

Thank you CHARLO, 332FG, and STEVE. 

 

I'm up on the build page again tonight.  I'm sure your own choices for your machines are good ones; but with the builder I'm presently looking at, the choices of RAM are limited to what they offer.  No 4000 MHZ RAM on the list of custom changes for this particular model. 

 

I can cut back to 16 RAM @ 3200 MHZ for $140 less than the 32/3200 I'm considering.  OR  I can step up to 32 RAM @ 3600 MHZ for about $50 more. 

 

There's no 4000 MHZ option.  Price doesn't matter to me as much as performance does.  I'm upgrading to 32 / 3600; best I can get with this build.  Your thoughts?

 

The CPU I've chosen overclocks automatically; didn't go for the ones you can control the overclocking on because I don't know anything about overclocking except it increases performance.  Would spending more for clockability control be worthwhile here? (It goes to about 4.5 as-is but they say it does it automatically; i suppose on demand from the sim.)  Your thoughts?

 

I saved $30 by deleting all those pretty colored remote controlled "party lights" on the fans and such.  I don't need that.

 

So at this point I'm at $3787.00 USD and (if I'm interpreting the build sheet info correctly) that includes liquid cooling; apparently integral to the fan on that model?)

 

(Shipping is about $150 more and I'm still thinking about adding a new secondary drive; but that's not important to this discussion.

 

Whatayathink?  Best available memory improvement for this build is 32 RAM @ 3600 MHZ.  How will she fly in VR? 

 

(ADDIT: I'll email the builder to ask if I can get a 4000 MHZ RAM on special order.  If not, maybe I can get him to leave the RAM out and get my own elsewhere.) 

 

Your thoughts? 

Edited November 20, 2021 by Todt_Von_Oben

[Todt_Von_Oben]

On 11/18/2021 at 2:16 AM, Todt_Von_Oben said:

(FROM THE ORIGINAL POST) ...an Intel Core i7 or a Ryzen 7 3800X @ 4.5 ghz with a GTX 1660 6GB and 16 gigs RAM running W10 64 bit; HD and SSD, VR ready;  $2142.00 includes mouse and keyboard. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

OR......

 

How do these numbers look as an economical alternative to the $3.7K job I've been describing? 

 

ADDIT:  I'm revisiting DBURNE's first response. 

 

"Currently 3090 is still cream of the crop but it too is not enough.

Most any 30xx though will give decent performance in IL-2. Go according to budget,"

 

Sounds like the 3800X would work well here, no? 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2021 by Todt_Von_Oben

[chiliwili69]

Hey, If you wants just IL-2 FC in VR with a Rift or Quest2 I would go for something like this:

 

Ryzen 5 5600X  (please discard the 3800X, it is quite below the 5XXX series of Ryzen)

A good AIO liquid cooling.

Take 16GB of the highest clock (for IL-2 VR 16GB is more than enough). But please, don´t take 64GB!, it doesn´t help in VR in IL-2.

Take a 3070Ti, 3080 or 3080Ti. Those cards will be enough for your Rift and Quest2. (don´t go to AMD GPUs, they have an issue with IL-2)

 

Alternatively you can go to the new i5-12600K or i7-12700K.

 

With the savings you can buy then a Reverb G2 or an Index (without controllers and just 1 basestation).

 

Please, take a look of those benchmarks so you can compare (there is a link with a result table):

 

[Todt_Von_Oben]

Thanks for that, CHILIWILI69; good to know.

 

I'm learning as I go through this.  There's a number of providers out there and you can pretty much build what you want online and have them assemble it.  I'm now looking beyond modified prebuilts and conceiving my own combinations for an "economy rig" and "something better" but not necessarily an absolute monster.  Don't think I need that.

 

I'll be going through it this weekend; seeing what's available and deciding what I want to actually buy; then I'll make the jump.  I think I'll be okay.

 

Thanks to everyone for your help and insight.  If you guys want to keep posting thoughts and info here, all contributions graciously accepted.  But I think you've gotten me to the point where I'm ready to get chancy.  Thanks a lot.

 

BLUE SKY!  ?

Edited November 20, 2021 by Todt_Von_Oben

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

5600X minimum.

 

If you go AMD, and your Motherboard has daisy-chained memory topology, make sure to go 2x 16GB 3800MHz or 4000MHz --- so you can use Dual Channel. That's ~10% speed you'd otherwise lose. Make sure to note that 4x8GB would run slower on such a Motherboard. 

If you have a Motherboard with parallel memory topology, 4x8GB would run the 10% faster.

 

You can check motherboards' topologies here, it is of utmost importance: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wmsTYK9Z3-jUX5LGRoFnsZYZiW1pfiDZnKCjaXyzd1o

[Todt_Von_Oben]

Thanks WOLF; good to know.

 

ALL: Here's what I'm arriving at.  even if i try to build an "economy" box that's better than what I have now, it's still going to cost me a couple grand; maybe more.

 

But if I build a rig that's up there towards the top of the heap and running Windows 11, I'll get great performance and have the latest OS.  Better adapted to the future, I think.

 

"In for a penny; in for a pound."  When it's a big expense, I usually try to buy the best I can get.  Looks like I'll be going for the high-dollar box some time within the next 48 hours.  Great Spirit, guide me wisely!  ?

 

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

11 hours ago, RAAF492SQNOz_Steve said:

I would substantially agree with this with one proviso...........

4400 MHZ Patriot Viper Ram comes in 8 Gb sticks and for most motherboards it is easier to overclock two RAM sticks rather than 4 so you would be limited to 16Gb.

I have used the above RAM and had to return 2 of the four sticks I purchased as two sticks were below spec (actually kept one stick from each set). The pair that I retained had great "tunability"with both Intel and Ryzen CPU's. Good value fast RAM

 

If you are intending to fly MS Flight Sim, 32 Gb may be preferable. i.e. 2 x16Gb

 

Re: CPU choice

I originally started building a PC for VR Flight simming with a Intel 10700KF but was never really happy with the performance of that CPU.

Swapped over to a Ryzen 5800x and got a 10%+ increase in VR FPS with a Reverb G2 running at 100%.  While really annoyed at having to stump up for another motherboard and CPU, the increase in IL2 VR performance made it a worthwhile exercise.

I have found that ram almost never lives up to the published xmp specs. I'm running my patriot viper steel ram at 3800mhz because my bottle neck is the Infinity Fabric of my 5600x that can only achieve 1900 mhz. I am running cl15 timings though.

3 hours ago, Todt_Von_Oben said:

Thanks WOLF; good to know.

 

ALL: Here's what I'm arriving at.  even if i try to build an "economy" box that's better than what I have now, it's still going to cost me a couple grand; maybe more.

 

But if I build a rig that's up there towards the top of the heap and running Windows 11, I'll get great performance and have the latest OS.  Better adapted to the future, I think.

 

"In for a penny; in for a pound."  When it's a big expense, I usually try to buy the best I can get.  Looks like I'll be going for the high-dollar box some time within the next 48 hours.  Great Spirit, guide me wisely!  ?

 

Just casually looking, but something like this would be far better than what you have built. Go for 12th gen Intel or ryzen 5000. You can also always upgrade/tweak the ram.

 

Skytech Prism II Gaming PC Desktop – AMD Ryzen 7 5800X 3.8GHz, RTX 3080 10G GDDR6X, 1TB Gen4 SSD, 16G DDR4 3200, 750W Gold PSU, 360mm AIO, AC Wi-Fi, Windows 10 Home 64-bit https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09699NMFK/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_2CFRR0AT4APYHSJJBCAA

 

Allied Gaming Patriot Desktop PC: AMD Ryzen 5 5600X, RTX 3080 Ti 12GB, 16GB 3200MHz, 512TB PCI-E NVMe SSD, A520 Aorus Elite Motherboard, Apevia 800 Watt 80+ Gold Power Supply, ARGB Fans, WiFi Ready https://www.amazon.com/dp/B097CZ9RY3/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_EN68RKRMG83Z7HV65SZH

Edited November 20, 2021 by -332FG-drewm3i-VR

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Get "Start11" for Windows 11. Great product.

[[CPT]Crunch]

I'd agree with Chili, 12600K is the deal for horsepower, best bang for a bargain.  Intels sort of discounted it to compete finally.

 

Far as windows, if you own an old licensed with key version of one of the older windows laying around, your win 11 is free.  Use the key to install win 10 licensed for free, those are still valid keys even if old, than force the win 11 free upgrade once you sign into a MS account with your win 10, and it's yours for nothing and fully licensed to your account.  Shave off a bit there too.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

I've read not to go Windows 11 when using Oculus. As of their News item by Nov 1st, Oculus Software is deemed incompatible on Windows 11 OS. 

 

I got no issues with Win11 Pro on either G2 or VP2, but upgraded my MB's Firmware and the CPU's chipset drivers. I'm always running everything uptodate. And overlay apps that inject themselves into VR cause stutters. So no fpsVR / OVRtoolkot / etc for me atm.

[dburne]

No issues here on Windows 11 with Index, Reverb G2, and Vive Pro 2.

Really surprised at Oculus for lagging behind in their support for Windows 11.

Edited November 21, 2021 by dburne

[Todt_Von_Oben]

We looked all last night and are back at it today.  For a real hot rig I keep coming up with numbers over 5K and I don't really know if I love VR that much.  ?

 

I am presently looking at less expensive but still (hopefully) good used computers on eBay and came back here to recheck this thread for info. This is helping me a lot; and there's probably others out there in the same boat this will also benefit.   Thanks for the info and tips.  

 

Prosit!

[chiliwili69]

7 hours ago, Todt_Von_Oben said:

For a real hot rig I keep coming up with numbers over 5K

 

My God! 5K! you don´t need to spend that to play IL-2 FC in VR with the Quest2 and Rift.

 

I don´t know the country/shops where you are looking at, but in my country I did a quick mount of what I would pick if I would choose tha custome PC to play IL-2 FC with a Quest2.

 

This is the link of the build for 2160€ (no OS included):

www.pccomponentes.com/configurador/F8E887C90

 

A 12900K is not going to give you more performance in VR. The important thing is the cooling to keep the Turbo working.

A 3070Ti is more than enough to run the Quest2 or the Rift or the Index.

 

If one day to go to a higher resolution VR headset, then you can just check how the 3070Ti handle it, and then decide if you will need a higher graphic card.

 

For IMHO, you would not need to spend more than that. Don´t get confused.

 

Notes:

Storage: If you want more storage this is easly expandable and cheap. 

DDR4? Yes, for now the DDR5 has not shown any advantage and prices are higher.

16Gb (2x8): For IL-2 VR it is more than enough. Real usage is around 8Gb:

 

 

 

 

Edited November 21, 2021 by chiliwili69

[Todt_Von_Oben]

Thanks CHILIWILI69.  That a lot of info I can put to good use; many points I wasn't aware of or hadn't considered.  Muchly appreciated.

 

I hear ya.  I really don't want to spend $5K on a gaming computer.  Part of the reason is we're both from California, my wife's folks worked in Silicon Valley making chips, and the prices being asked for these GPU's seems awfully high to us.  It's like they're not charging for what it is but what it can provide and I always feel like I'm being bent over the barrel when it comes to things like that.  I don't mind paying a fair price but what I'm seeing now gives me a bout of conscience.  Hard to bring myself to do it.

 

I was looking at one of those online companies where you can build your own computer from a list of offered parts.  (Don't want to mention the name here as (1) that might violate Forum rules, and (2) I don't feel like advertising for them.)  I start with something on the low end of their high-end category and "improve" it according to what I presently think will work(LOL!) and the cost goes through the ceiling. 

 

I'm rethinking that now because of this thread and your most recent post.

 

Here's another oddity about that site: I've been adding things up there for the past couple weeks and every other night the total seems to come up different.  That could mean a number of things but it doesn't make the decision any easier for a novice computer builder like myself.  Gonna look elsewhere, too.

 

I got to the point I was looking at used rigs but (while I've bought a few used computers successfully on eBay) but I'd rather have something new.  I'll go back and read through this thread again, write up a  reference list of what you guys are using, and see if I can't come up with something more reasonably priced. 

 

Again, to ALL: thanks for the help.  Working...  

Edited November 21, 2021 by Todt_Von_Oben

[[CPT]Crunch]

Rolling your own isn't like the old days, its easier than ever, almost as if by design.  Pick your poison, AMD or Intel, match the board with chip, and find a compatible memory, the rest is gravy.  Easier than ever for me, don't do this for a living, and usually at least four or more years apart, so I forget most from the previous builds.  That and the abundance of parts picker sites and reviews.  The hard part is picking the platform to run with, everyone wants the best they can afford.  There's so much less to the motherboards now days, I remember the eight PCI slots and an AGP and the mess that came with, extra sound card required.  That was hard, you can't miss with a quality rig today.  Rolled my own for under 3G's and slightly over half of that was the 3080.  I'm happy, the G-2 I had from last year rocks, faster and better than ever.

 

Don't be intimidated by the water cooling system, the prefabricated self contained are easy as pie, foul proof, they barely need directions which is a good thing, because they basically don't send any anyways.  You just need to ensure your case is compatible, pretty much all the same standard for ready to insert.  Best part is now days with the right Bezo shipping you parts you can send them back if you change your mind, or their defective, no questions ask.  Got a keyboard setting out waiting for the UPS man tomorrow.

[Todt_Von_Oben]

Thanks.  Right now I'm reading through all these posts and messages I've received for understanding and retention.  I think there's enough there to help me make a good decision ; still looking.

 

CAPTCRUNCH:  What I'm sitting here chuckling to myself about right now is that I actually understood what you just wrote; whereas, not long ago, I would have missed or misinterpreted a lot of it.  ?

 

I'm an old "points and condensor" guy.  When I was in High School, the big advantage was knowing how to type.  LOL! 

 

Computers have taken us so far beyond that (and they evolve so quickly) it's easy to make mistakes when the last boutique computer you bought was in 2004.  I'm groping in the blind; figuring it out as I go along.  Don't know schnit from Shinola.  That's why i appreciate the help I've received here.  

 

To those in my situation who might be looking for a computer: I'm learning that, when you're first getting started with this, there's a tendency to look at higher prices and bigger performance numbers as reliable indicators of what's best for someone interested primarily in flight sims like FC; the bigger the better.  But as we're seeing here, that's not always the best way to go; depending on other variables.  

 

So in a way, there IS "too much" computer for IL2-FC VR; but it's not a matter of too much performance; it's more about wasting money on something that really won't improve the experience as much as we hope it will.  That's something to consider that we "new builders" might be ignorant of.  I was.  

 

But I'm learning here and that's great.  Gonna go read and study now.  Got recommendations for a few models I want to check out and I'm definitely inclined to finish this and get it shipped ASAP.

 

Thanks for the help. 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Todt_Von_Oben

[Todt_Von_Oben]

On 11/19/2021 at 3:58 PM, Charlo-VR said:

I enjoy 80-90 FPS in VR  on full multiplayer servers with this RAM:

G.SKILL Trident Z Royal 32GB DDR4 4000 F4-4000C17Q-32GTRS

The general consensus I saw in these forums is that 64 Gbs of RAM will not help with VR, and that faster RAM does help, which is why I went with the 4000 Mhz

 

CHARLO: Thank you!  That's another important thing I didn't know.

 

And BTW: I'm looking at lists of what people are flying here and I've gotta say yours rig is outrageous.  I see you've had luck with the motion sim seat; I bought the electronics and got 'em working but haven't started building my machine yet. 

 

But I see you're running a carbon fiber motherboard.  I'm learning about those.  Your thoughts?

 

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Todt_Von_Oben

[Todt_Von_Oben]

 Would this provide a very good VR experience in Flying Circus?

 

• CPU: AMD RYZEN 7 5800X 8-Core 16-Thread 3.8GHz (4.7GHz Max Boost)
• GPU: GeForce RTX 3080 10GB (Brand May Vary)
• Motherboard: ASUS TUF X570 Gaming Plus WIFI
• RAM: 32GB DDR4 3200MHz (2x16GB); BUT I'll replace the RAM with 32GB (2X16) @ 4400 MHZ.

 

OR THIS?

• CPU: Intel Core i7-11700KF 3.6GHz (5.0GHz Turbo) 8-Core 16-Thread
• GPU: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 10GB (Brand May Vary)
• Motherboard: Asus TUF Gaming Z590 Plus
• RAM: G.Skill TridentZ RGB 16GB DDR4 3200MHz; BUT I'll replace the RAM with 32GB (2X16) @ 4400 MHZ.

 

I can get either of those new / prebuilt for about $2,700.00 USD.

 

Not afraid to spend more but if this will get me flying FC VR MP with good performance and graphics, that'd be great.  ?

 

Your thoughts?

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Todt_Von_Oben

[Charlo-VRde]

8 hours ago, Todt_Von_Oben said:

 

CHARLO: Thank you!  That's another important thing I didn't know.

 

And BTW: I'm looking at lists of what people are flying here and I've gotta say yours rig is outrageous.  I see you've had luck with the motion sim seat; I bought the electronics and got 'em working but haven't started building my machine yet. 

 

But I see you're running a carbon fiber motherboard.  I'm learning about those.  Your thoughts?

 

 

It’s a “gaming carbon” motherboard, just their brand name, and it has been fine. I mostly took care to see that the RAM I bought was listed as compatible with it by the motherboard manufacturer. 
 

If I were building a new rig now I would go for the latest Intel 12700K or 12600K, which also means a Z690 motherboard. I’d get the version that supports DDR4 RAM.

 

By the way, you can ask amongst your friends if they or someone they know, like a neighborhood kid or one of their children, who enjoys building computers. Lots of younger folk have the skills and interest in building computers, but may not be able to afford the parts. It would be fun for them.

 

But I’m assuming you gate a period of tech support when you buy a prebuilt rig.

 

BSBD!

[chiliwili69]

7 hours ago, Todt_Von_Oben said:

Would this provide a very good VR experience in Flying Circus?

 

• CPU: AMD RYZEN 7 5800X 8-Core 16-Thread 3.8GHz (4.7GHz Max Boost)
• GPU: GeForce RTX 3080 10GB (Brand May Vary)
• Motherboard: ASUS TUF X570 Gaming Plus WIFI
• RAM: 32GB DDR4 3200MHz (2x16GB); BUT I'll replace the RAM with 32GB (2X16) @ 4400 MHZ.

 

OR THIS?

• CPU: Intel Core i7-11700KF 3.6GHz (5.0GHz Turbo) 8-Core 16-Thread
• GPU: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 10GB (Brand May Vary)
• Motherboard: Asus TUF Gaming Z590 Plus
• RAM: G.Skill TridentZ RGB 16GB DDR4 3200MHz; BUT I'll replace the RAM with 32GB (2X16) @ 4400 MHZ.

 

I can get either of those new / prebuilt for about $2,700.00 USD

 

The answer is absolutely YES for your Rift, Quest2 and Index. For Reverb G2 you might need to adjust some SS% but it will be quite fine as well.

 

Just one caution, the Ryzens memory don´t go beyond 4000MHz (that´s the maximum). So for the ASUS TUF X570 I would pick this memory (2x8Gb):

 

https://www.gskill.com/qvl/165/326/1608543488/F4-4000C16D-16GTZNA-Qvl

 

The Ryzen system (5800X) is a little bit superior in the IL-2 CPU test and VRTest2 than the Core i7-11700KF.(look below image)

If you have to choose between them I would go to the 5800X. But taking Windows 10, not Windows 11.

 

 

Or you can go to the i7-12700K or i5-12600K

 

[Todt_Von_Oben]

10 hours ago, Charlo-VR said:

It’s a “gaming carbon” motherboard, just their brand name, and it has been fine. I mostly took care to see that the RAM I bought was listed as compatible with it by the motherboard manufacturer. 
 

If I were building a new rig now I would go for the latest Intel 12700K or 12600K, which also means a Z690 motherboard. I’d get the version that supports DDR4 RAM.

 

By the way, you can ask amongst your friends if they or someone they know, like a neighborhood kid or one of their children, who enjoys building computers. Lots of younger folk have the skills and interest in building computers, but may not be able to afford the parts. It would be fun for them.

 

But I’m assuming you gate a period of tech support when you buy a prebuilt rig.

 

BSBD!

 

Thanks for the info; I'll look into 12000 and z690.  But I'm in the middle of a jungle on a rock in the ocean; no kids around.  I'm stuck doing this on my own but with experienced people sharing their insight, I think I'm catching on.  Got a good idea for a "Good" rig and am going to also design a better rig to see what kind of balance between bang and buck I can achieve.  Deciding between the two may be the  toss of a coin. 

 

"BSBD!"  LOL!  ?

 

 

8 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

The answer is absolutely YES for your Rift, Quest2 and Index. For Reverb G2 you might need to adjust some SS% but it will be quite fine as well.

 

Just one caution, the Ryzens memory don´t go beyond 4000MHz (that´s the maximum). So for the ASUS TUF X570 I would pick this memory (2x8Gb):

 

https://www.gskill.com/qvl/165/326/1608543488/F4-4000C16D-16GTZNA-Qvl

 

The Ryzen system (5800X) is a little bit superior in the IL-2 CPU test and VRTest2 than the Core i7-11700KF.(look below image)

If you have to choose between them I would go to the 5800X. But taking Windows 10, not Windows 11.

 

 

Or you can go to the i7-12700K or i5-12600K

 

 

Okay!  That sounds like a good rig in the $2700 range.  Tonight, as an alternative, I'll also calculate a more expensive box and ask for opinions.

 

I figure $2.7K rounds out to $3K.  Anyway i look at this, it's a major expense. 

 

If I'm going to go that far, I might as well go farther if not all the way.  Somewhere in the neighborhood of $4k would be okay IF we get a major improvement in VR performance and options for better VR headsets in the future.

 

Dinner now... computers later.  ?