When will there fourth generation il2?

[FlyinCoffin]

When will there fourth generation il2?

[Vig]

After I am either dead or too senile to play it.  ?

[Mtnbiker1998]

While the ww1 engine definitely has its disadvantages, I think GB still has a decent amount of life left in it.

 

I personally wonder if post GB we'll see a lot more effort going into CloD's engine. I see a ton of potential there if they iron out the rest of the issues, and with a bigger team to work on it they could do a lot I'd imagine. 

 

At the very least, that seems more likely to me than creating a whole new engine and starting from scratch again.

[Ribbon]

"Two weeks!"

-Janson-

 

As we know from Jansons post they aim to heavily upgrade current engine at some point..... instead going from scratch.

Will GB be ported part of it or it will be separate game....?‍♂️

 

 

[BlitzPig_EL]

48 minutes ago, Mtnbiker1998 said:

 

I personally wonder if post GB we'll see a lot more effort going into CloD's engine.

 

Cliffs Of Dover is a different game, with a different development team, and has nothing to do with the Great Battles Series, other than sharing a publisher.  Nothing done or not done here will have any effect on CloD's development future.

[Mtnbiker1998]

15 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

 

Cliffs Of Dover is a different game, with a different development team, and has nothing to do with the Great Battles Series, other than sharing a publisher.  Nothing done or not done here will have any effect on CloD's development future.

I'm aware. My idea is that the future could change that.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Doubt it, but anything is possible in this crazy world.  That engine is just too old now.  I like the varied plane set, and the BlitzPigs tried to go back to Clod for the Tobruk thing, we flew it for a few days then uninstalled it.  It's just not up to the level of the Great Battles series.  Yeah it has some things that are different, but it's just so um... dated feeling.  I really wanted it to work, but you can't go back to the farm once you have seen the bright lights of the big city.

[BraveSirRobin]

22 minutes ago, Mtnbiker1998 said:

I'm aware. My idea is that the future could change that.

There is virtually no chance of that.  The GB team already reviewed the Clod software and decided to upgrade the engine used for RoF.

[Mtnbiker1998]

17 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Doubt it, but anything is possible in this crazy world.  That engine is just too old now.  I like the varied plane set, and the BlitzPigs tried to go back to Clod for the Tobruk thing, we flew it for a few days then uninstalled it.  It's just not up to the level of the Great Battles series.  Yeah it has some things that are different, but it's just so um... dated feeling.  I really wanted it to work, but you can't go back to the farm once you have seen the bright lights of the big city.

3 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

There is virtually no chance of that.  The GB team already reviewed the Clod software and decided to upgrade the engine used for RoF.

I'll agree its in a pretty rough state now, but I just see so much potential in that engine. Even now theres a lot of things its capable of simulating in terms of damage and systems.  Who knows what they could accomplish if they put a big team on it. Like you said, anything is possible. It's all pointless speculation at the end of the day lol, none of us know what's gonna happen. I just think a pilgrimage to a future improved CloD engine seems more likely than a whole new engine built from scratch.

[BraveSirRobin]

18 minutes ago, Mtnbiker1998 said:

 I just think a pilgrimage to a future improved CloD engine seems more likely than a whole new engine built from scratch.

So you’re just going to ignore that they already had a chance to do that and said no?

 

Also, they’re not going to build a new engine from scratch.  They’re going to upgrade the GB engine.

[Gambit21]

There may never be a "we present our new engine" moment. This is because as Robin pointed out, the "new" engine will be an upgraded version of the current engine. Also they're always making improvements, such as the clouds (which is a major enhancement) and many other smaller and larger tweaks. So there may not be a critical 'moment' where the engine reaches NEW status. Rather a steady progression where at some point it can be considered the next or upgraded version as such.

 

Or I may be completely wrong and they have a roadmap to get some larger changes in place all at once, and at some point we get a "here it is" announcement. No idea, but my money is on the first version. In any case as Jason already pointed out, going to a completely new engine is generally not a smart idea for various reasons.

[Zeev]

2 hours ago, Mtnbiker1998 said:

While the ww1 engine definitely has its disadvantages, I think GB still has a decent amount of life left in it.

 

I personally wonder if post GB we'll see a lot more effort going into CloD's engine. I see a ton of potential there if they iron out the rest of the issues, and with a bigger team to work on it they could do a lot I'd imagine. 

 

At the very least, that seems more likely to me than creating a whole new engine and starting from scratch again.

Isnt Cliffs of Dover an older engine than this one? 

Also not sure if its an engine limitations (probably not) but the latest DLC for Cliffs of Dover, both from the menu's point and mission design are horrible. (In my opinion)

[Mtnbiker1998]

21 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

So you’re just going to ignore that they already had a chance to do that and said no?

 

Also, they’re not going to build a new engine from scratch.  They’re going to upgrade the GB engine.

Even now, Cliffs of Dover is a very different game than it was a few years ago. I expect in a few more years it will be even more different. All I'm saying is we don't know what the future holds. I presented it as a hypothetical option, not a defacto This is whats going to happen. Calm down there bud.

[Avimimus]

Ah... so not fourth generation fighters

 

I suspect that there might be an attempt to revamp the engine for BoX sometime in the distant future (Note: I'm referring to a return after development has stopped, rather than the constant ongoing upgrades). I don't think anyone will attempt to rebuild from scratch though - at least not for several decades.

 

I think they can still do at least five modules though (without passing 1955, needing radar, or having to go to the Pacific)... so if it keeps being profitable they could keep the current series going for a long time.

 

That said - there is the possibility of them producing a less realistic spin-off at some point (e.g. a different brand where they can make up details for aircraft that are poorly documented)... I've heard that was considered once.

 

P.S. To be honest - if you look at the original BoS... they've arguable upgraded the game enough to be at least one generation later (if not two)! So the real question is generation five or six.

 

Edited November 18, 2021 by Avimimus

[Motherbrain]

I'd rather they keep developing the one we have now and keep everything in the shared "Great Battles" universe.

[BraveSirRobin]

51 minutes ago, Mtnbiker1998 said:

Even now, Cliffs of Dover is a very different game than it was a few years ago. I expect in a few more years it will be even more different. All I'm saying is we don't know what the future holds. I presented it as a hypothetical option, not a defacto This is whats going to happen. Calm down there bud.

I’m completely calm.  I’d be upset if they were actually considering what you want.  Fortunately, they’re not.

[ShamrockOneFive]

Hard to say and difficult to even say how that will happen. DCS World has gone through some big core engine changes and yet is still is a contiguous sim. For better or worse.

 

IL-2's next generation may be a gradual transition like that. Or ... maybe it will be a hard break and a move to something new. Hard to say how that will go nevermind when.

[Gambit21]

14 minutes ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

Hard to say and difficult to even say how that will happen. DCS World has gone through some big core engine changes and yet is still is a contiguous sim. For better or worse.

 

IL-2's next generation may be a gradual transition like that. Or ... maybe it will be a hard break and a move to something new. Hard to say how that will go nevermind when.

 

Yep

The only consideration that matters...is how will Zero look and fly in whatever this iteration is or isn't? 

[BraveSirRobin]

1 minute ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Yep

The only consideration that matters...is how will Zero look and fly in whatever this iteration is or isn't? 

Probably not that different from the current iteration.  I suspect the real issue will be an engine that can support the carrier (specifically, all the AAA) which the Zero will have to land on.

[Mtnbiker1998]

1 hour ago, BraveSirRobin said:

I’m completely calm.  I’d be upset if they were actually considering what you want.  Fortunately, they’re not.

So, butthurt it is then.

[percydanvers]

I can't say I'd be too thrilled at the prospect of going back to square one in terms of aircraft, maps, features etc in exchange for... I don't even know what.

[BraveSirRobin]

13 minutes ago, Mtnbiker1998 said:

So, butthurt it is then.

About what?  There is virtually no chance that the GB team will go anywhere near Clod.  I think the direction that they’re currently going is fantastic.

[oc2209]

1 hour ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 I suspect the real issue will be an engine that can support the carrier (specifically, all the AAA) which the Zero will have to land on.

 

Which is why we should abandon all hope for carrier ops!

 

Guadalcanal, Burma, Japanese homeland: none of these demand carriers.

 

Though in the homeland defense scenario, I admit it'd be sad to have Hellcats and Corsairs materialize on the map's edge at the start of each sortie, but hey... whatever gets the job done.

[BraveSirRobin]

6 minutes ago, oc2209 said:

 

Which is why we should abandon all hope for carrier ops!

 

Guadalcanal, Burma, Japanese homeland: none of these demand carriers.

 

Though in the homeland defense scenario, I admit it'd be sad to have Hellcats and Corsairs materialize on the map's edge at the start of each sortie, but hey... whatever gets the job done.

 

Sorry, but PTO needs carriers.  

[Feathered_IV]

There’s way more to the war in the Pacific than just the carriers.  That would be like saying you can’t have the European theatre from 1943-45 without the B-17...  

[BraveSirRobin]

18 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

 That would be like saying you can’t have the European theatre from 1943-45 without the B-17...  

 

And yet, here we are.

[40plus]

7 hours ago, Mtnbiker1998 said:

I personally wonder if post GB we'll see a lot more effort going into CloD's engine. I see a ton of potential there if they iron out the rest of the issues, and with a bigger team to work on it they could do a lot I'd imagine. .

 

Alight guys, the GB engine has run it's course. It's time to move forward. In order to move forward were going to first take two steps back and start with this old, obsolete engine. Sound good?

 

Why in the hells would they do that?

[J2_Oelmann]

4 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

Sorry, but PTO needs carriers.  

Nah. Burma or China would be a nice fresh setting. And a good foot in the door of the PTO. Lots of potential there. No need for carriers at all cost.

[Stig]

9 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

but you can't go back to the farm once you have seen the bright lights of the big city.

 

The sheep sure lose their appeal once you set eyes on those city girls!

[Feathered_IV]

Now that I think of it, when was the third generation?

[Guster]

I dunno, I think the current engine and interface is pretty crisp. Compared to RoF it's lacking the Edwardian swan song / Petrol Punk atmosphere though for the WWI stuff.

[JG27_Steini]

20 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

Now that I think of it, when was the third generation?

 

1. IL2 - 2001

2. IL2 CloD - 2011

3. IL2 BoS - 2013

[Feathered_IV]

Those first two were different game engines from different development teams.  The current Il-2 game was developed from NeoQB’s original Rise of Flight engine and took on the Il-2 title for brand recognition.  I don’t think we have actually seen a third generation yet. 

[Robli]

35 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

Those first two were different game engines from different development teams.

 

I am sure that the teams were somewhat different, but both were Oleg Maddox games and for example Luthier was part of both (starting from Pacific Fighters).

In a way I guess you could say that both CloD and Great Battles are second generation, but from 1C point of view, they first released Il-2 Sturmovik (1st generation), then Il-2 Sturmovik CloD (2nd generation), which they dropped shortly after release in 2012, and then joined forces with 777 studios to release Great Battles series (3rd generation).

[Zooropa_Fly]

1 hour ago, Stig said:

 

The sheep sure lose their appeal once you set eyes on those city girls!

 

Have you never been to Aberdeen ?

[simfan2015]

Only Jason and his teams know about the exact status of the GB engine.

If I, personally, were to compare it against something like DCS World 'engine' that, IMHO is till looking to me like LOMAC Enhanced, then AFAIK I don't see how the GB engine is really (too) old in any way.

If we get flyables like the B-25, B-17, WWI bombers etc. then IL-2 GB -to me- still shines bright ... as well as CloD Tobruk once it introduces 4K, the new clouds and VR. 

So I can easily wait for complete 'overhauls' like PTO a potentially new game engine for ... as long as it takes.

[I am even more curious about (when and how !) the new Microprose release of  'The Mighty Eight' titles] 

Edited November 18, 2021 by simfan2015

[56RAF_Stickz]

20 minutes ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

 

Have you never been to Aberdeen ?

you got both there so the sheep get to choose

[Soilworker]

One thing that bugs me about what is done on the current engine (however I don't know if it's a limitation or merely a design choice) is there is nothing metallic in the cockpits - by that I mean reflective (not including glass).

 

Everything metal in the cockpits is just textured to look metallic, it reminds me of gun models from early 2000's shooters (eg: Stalker), seeing as externally planes' metallic surfaces look amazing it annoys me that this isn't a feature of the internals, ie: where we spend most of our time. Just look at the latest DD, at the cockpit of the DFW C.V, great example.

 

I don't like talking bad of my favourite sim of which I'm 90% very happy, it's just quite an immersion killer for me. 

 

(Oh and before anyone says anything about the metal being dull and not very reflective, I'm not saying I want it to be polished chrome or anything but even very dull metal reflects in a way that still looks metallic.)

[IckyATLAS]

I was wondering, what is exactly the IL2 graphics engine. Or said another way it is based originally on which engine.

Is it a completely proprietary scratch built and designed engine. I don't think so probably it is an iteration from an older one, but which is the original first one?

 

When one see the incredible 3D demos of an engine like Unity 2021.2 or other versions, and see all the techniques implemented to handle efficiently extremely large and complex scenes and models, it is always tempting to say why not leave the innards of graphics and physical behaviors to other specialized teams for lighting, atmospheric and visual effects, and build on top of it the models, maps and behaviors that are specific to our sim. 

I have seen demos where one guy in less that an hour is able to create a map of a region with trees, rocks, sand, water, the atmosphere and everything plus some physical effects and animations with such an incredible detail and quality that it just took me away.

 

Maybe it is more economically viable to do everything oneself as you can master and tweak everything as you please, but it is difficult to be expert on everything.

 

 

[SqueakyS]

The theing really hampering the GB engine is the AI and the dev's insistance that all aircraft have accurate flight models. simplifying gunner AI and flight models would give us larger scale bomber formations and might allow for the heavies but that doesn't appear the direction the devs want to take the sim.