Future FC Collector Planes

[No.23_Triggers]

The upcoming Snipe / Siemens-Shuckert collector planes have the FC community really excited - it's brilliant news to hear that, at long last, we'll be getting some all-new WW1 era aircraft. For that reason, I thought I'd suggest some potential future pairs of collector plane for the FC plane-set...or even as some potential new-to-FC additions to FC3! 

(Note: I've tried to keep the suggestions limited to the Western Front as that's where the FC maps are based)

1915-1916: 

 

B.E.2c & AviatiK C.I:



 

 

 

 

Bristol Scout & Fokker E.IV





 

 

 

 

Nieuport 10 & Fokker D.III

 

1917-1918: 

 

Armstrong-Whitworth F.K.8   &  Hannover CL.II





Airco D.H.5 & LFG Roland D.II



 

SPAD XI & Rumpler C.IV

 

 

 

 

SPAD XII & Fokker D.VI

 

Edited November 15, 2021 by US93_Larner

[[F.Circus]Gorn_Captain]

This is a brilliant list, I can't think of a single one that wouldn't be a blast to fly. A BE2 is probably my most wanted collector plane. It's always stood out to me in memoirs as perhaps one of, if not the most despised plane of the war, it'd be brilliant fun to pootle about in, and absolutely necessary if we see a 1915/1916 scenario. 

 

The SPAD XII is another type I would adore, even though I think its grounds for inclusion are a bit weak, considering how few of them there were and how little service they saw. But that I can put aside for the sheer pleasure that'd be using that hotchkiss 37mm. Perhaps a Voisin X would be a better choice instead, if the cannon is the primary draw. (it very much is for me anyway) It also didn't see too much use, but considerably more so than the SPAD did, and that's not even counting its time as a night bomber. Plus, just look at her, it's fantastic!

 

It even looks like a coffin with wings, how could anyone not want to fly it? 

[AndyJWest]

Upvote for Voisin X, because huge gun:

 

Single-shot apparently. Probably because the recoil from firing it twice would put the plane into reverse...

[US103_Baer]

Vickers FB5 'Gunbus'
Realised this was quite an important type after reading Maurice Baring's RFC HQ book where he refers to debates at the time that if enough FB5s had been made available faster, then the Fokker scourge could have been averted.

Look at the introduction date, Feb 1915, maybe they had a point. Even much later, German pilot reports referred to all British pushers as 'Vickers'.

224 were produced, so quite a lot by early war standards.

From Wikipedia

The F.B.5 began to be seen at the front when the first reached No.2 Squadron RFC on 5 February 1915.The type served in ones and twos with several other units before No. 11 Squadron RFC became the world's first fighter squadron when, fully equipped with the F.B.5, it deployed to Villers-Bretonneux, France on 25 July 1915.^[12]Second Lieutenant G.S.M. Insall of 11 Squadron won the Victoria Cross for an action on 7 November 1915 in which he destroyed a German aircraft while flying a Gunbus.^[13]No. 18 Squadron RFC, which deployed to France in November 1915, also operated the F.B.5 exclusively.

 

Edited November 15, 2021 by US28_Baer

[Fafnir_6]

7 hours ago, US93_Larner said:

The upcoming Snipe / Siemens-Shuckert collector planes have the FC community really excited - it's brilliant news to hear that, at long last, we'll be getting some all-new WW1 era aircraft. For that reason, I thought I'd suggest some potential future pairs of collector plane for the FC plane-set...or even as some potential new-to-FC additions to FC3! 

(Note: I've tried to keep the suggestions limited to the Western Front as that's where the FC maps are based)

1915-1916: 

 

B.E.2c & AviatiK C.I:



 

 

 

 

Bristol Scout & Fokker E.IV





 

 

 

 

Nieuport 10 & Fokker D.III

 

1917-1918: 

 

Armstrong-Whitworth F.K.8   &  Hannover CL.II





Airco D.H.5 & LFG Roland D.II



 

SPAD XI & Rumpler C.IV

 

 

 

 

SPAD XII & Fokker D.VI

 

This is an excellent list for the Western Front.  I support fully...and will likewise do so with my money once they get around to it.   I would also add a French 1915/1916 two-seater (Farman, Caudron G4 or Voisin - whichever is most produced/deployed and useful for career).  Your FB5 suggestion is solid and could be paired with a Pfalz E.I or maybe an Albatros C.I. 

 

cheers,

 

Fafnir_6

Edited November 15, 2021 by Fafnir_6

[=LD=Bulldog*]

 

Morane-Saulnier N!

 

[No.23_Triggers]

3 hours ago, Fafnir_6 said:

This is an excellent list for the Western Front.  I support fully...and will likewise do so with my money once they get around to it.   I would also add a French 1915/1916 two-seater (Farman, Caudron G4 or Voisin - whichever is most produced/deployed and useful for career).  Your FB5 suggestion is solid and could be paired with a Pfalz E.I or maybe an Albatros C.I. 

 

cheers,

 

Fafnir_6

Oh! I'll tell you what would be a good couple of pairings.... Pfalz E.I and Morane Parasol,  FB5 and Alb C.I! 

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

Wonderful suggestions. Like them all.  Would also like to see Alb d2 or 3, and Nueport 24..

[No.23_Triggers]

3 hours ago, RNAS10_Mitchell said:

Wonderful suggestions. Like them all.  Would also like to see Alb d2 or 3, and Nueport 24..

Hopefully Alb D.II / D.III will be making an appearance in FC3...Nieuport 24 is a good shout! 

Edited November 15, 2021 by US93_Larner

[[F.Circus]MoerasGrizzly]

I would love to see the Fokker E IV in the list, i'd be a nice way to include the glorious Eindecker even if it barely matches up against the more modern opposition.

[No.23_Triggers]

21 minutes ago, [F.Circus]MoerasGrizzly said:

I would love to see the Fokker E IV in the list, i'd be a nice way to include the glorious Eindecker even if it barely matches up against the more modern opposition.

Assuming FC3 and any future volumes of FC are going to round off the rest of the old RoF plane-set, the Fokker E.III will be in FC.....eventually....

Edited November 15, 2021 by US93_Larner

[migmadmarine]

GIven we will run out of German aircraft before entente ones, and I assume the flying boats/floats will not be ported before the channel map, so hopefully a module will come expanding things backward into 1915/16 which could include many of the early ones above. But in the mean time, more German and especially French two seaters! The British have a reasonable list of two seaters in RoF, but the the other two above nations could use some more. As much as I'd love the Hannover, I think a Rumpler type would be great for another general purpose two seater to compliment the DFW. I'd love to see the the Salmson 2A2 and something French-made to compliment the Sopwith Strutter once that is back in. The Farman F.4 would be quite long in the tooth by the point the war that most of the other plane set represents, perhaps some of you would have reasonable ideas. 

[Off_Winters]

Whilst the FK8 was eventually the preferred mount of two seater crews over the RE8, I would really like to see the RE8 and Sopwith Pup in game. The RE8 being the mainstay of twin seater work for the period FC1&2 covers, and the Pup a pivotal development that filled a much needed gap (even if under gunned) whilst leading to the eventual development and introduction of the Camel. 

And both types have a rich squadron history that can be recreated in game, in either scripted mission campaigns/campaigns proper or single player missions. 

for eventual game expansions into the early war period there are many options, but the DH2 is a absolute must in my mind for any WWI simulation.

Edited November 27, 2021 by Off_Winters

[No.23_Triggers]

10 hours ago, Off_Winters said:

Whilst the FK8 was eventually the preferred mount of two seater crews over the RE8, I would really like to see the RE8 and Sopwith Pup in game. The RE8 being the mainstay of twin seater work for the period FC1&2 covers, and the Pup a pivotal development that filled a much needed gap (even if under gunned) whilst leading to the eventual development and introduction of the Camel. 

And both types have a rich squadron history that can be recreated in game, in either scripted mission campaigns/campaigns proper or single player missions. 

for eventual game expansions into the early war period there are many options, but the DH2 is a absolute must in my mind for any WWI simulation.

FC3 may have both the Harry Tate and the Pup - both were available in RoF. Same with the DH2...although, its FM was pretty underwhelming! It was about on a par with an Eindecker. 

Edited November 27, 2021 by US93_Larner

[Off_Winters]

15 hours ago, US93_Larner said:

Same with the DH2...although, its FM was pretty underwhelming! It was about on a par with an Eindecker. 

Thats a bit harsh, DH2 definitely out flew Eindecker, in the hands of a good pilot it was a match for early Albatross and effectively cleared the Fokker scourge. DH2 pilot's shot down 68 Eindeckers in 10 months. 

Early 1916 the Central Powers with the Fokker Monoplane had enjoyed air superiority up to this point (known as the "Fokker Scourge" during the summer of 1915), the arrival of the DH.2  changed the odds in favor of the Allies. The first Imperial German Monoplane was downed by a DH.2 on April 25th, 1916. In June alone, DH.2 pilots racked up a further 17 enemy aircraft. A further 15 were counted in August and another 15 were netted in September. Ten more enemy aircraft were tallied in November. DH.2 pilots recalled the aircraft's excellent rate-of-climb and handling qualities and this no doubt shown through in their actions. Interestingly, early DH.2 pilots found the aircraft quite sensitive and difficult to manage but experience soon dispelled these feelings. Coupled with well-trained and experienced pilots, the DH.2 proved a lethal system and was instrumental in winning back control of the skies from the Central Powers by the middle of 1916.
 

[No.23_Triggers]

8 hours ago, Off_Winters said:

Thats a bit harsh, DH2 definitely out flew Eindecker, in the hands of a good pilot it was a match for early Albatross and effectively cleared the Fokker scourge. DH2 pilot's shot down 68 Eindeckers in 10 months. 

Early 1916 the Central Powers with the Fokker Monoplane had enjoyed air superiority up to this point (known as the "Fokker Scourge" during the summer of 1915), the arrival of the DH.2  changed the odds in favor of the Allies. The first Imperial German Monoplane was downed by a DH.2 on April 25th, 1916. In June alone, DH.2 pilots racked up a further 17 enemy aircraft. A further 15 were counted in August and another 15 were netted in September. Ten more enemy aircraft were tallied in November. DH.2 pilots recalled the aircraft's excellent rate-of-climb and handling qualities and this no doubt shown through in their actions. Interestingly, early DH.2 pilots found the aircraft quite sensitive and difficult to manage but experience soon dispelled these feelings. Coupled with well-trained and experienced pilots, the DH.2 proved a lethal system and was instrumental in winning back control of the skies from the Central Powers by the middle of 1916.
 

....well, RoF's flight modelling seemed to disagree ? (that's what I was referring to!) 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

23 minutes ago, US93_Larner said:

....well, RoF's flight modelling seemed to disagree ? (that's what I was referring to!) 

I heard from old RoF beta tester that they make mistake of making it match E.III,  something like Camel vs Dr.1 . Which I hope they never do again if that was the case.  In beta DH.2  turned circles around E.III I heard but then castrated in public. 

Edited November 28, 2021 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[=IRFC=Gascan]

That's why I'd love to see the BE2, Bristol Scout, Morane-Saulnier, and maybe a couple other 1915 planes for the E.III to hunt. I think trying to fire an off-axis machine gun on the Bristol Scout or use a rifle/pistol/shotgun to fend off an attacker in a BE2 would be a fun challenge for a single-player campaign or occasionally on an MP server. Once the E.III has the appropriate prey, there will be no temptation to try and "balance" the game.

Edited November 29, 2021 by gascan

[No.23_Triggers]

7 hours ago, gascan said:

That's why I'd love to see the BE2, Bristol Scout, Morane-Saulnier, and maybe a couple other 1915 planes for the E.III to hunt. I think trying to fire an off-axis machine gun on the Bristol Scout or use a rifle/pistol/shotgun to fend off an attacker in a BE2 would be a fun challenge for a single-player campaign or occasionally on an MP server. Once the E.III has the appropriate prey, there will be no temptation to try and "balance" the game.

Yeah, I think that was the problem and what led to the decision of implementing the 'E.IIIH2'  rather than a historically performing DeHav...the E.III only had its natural predators in RoF (DeHav, N10), and none of its prey (B.E., Morane Parasol, etc)...so it would basically be cannon fodder unless there was some ahistorical 'balance' introduced. 

[LukeFF]

7 hours ago, US93_Larner said:

Yeah, I think that was the problem and what led to the decision of implementing the 'E.IIIH2'  rather than a historically performing DeHav...the E.III only had its natural predators in RoF (DeHav, N10), and none of its prey (B.E., Morane Parasol, etc)...so it would basically be cannon fodder unless there was some ahistorical 'balance' introduced. 

 

None of which has ever been substantiated by anyone on the development side, so let's not go down that route. 

[J2_Trupobaw]

Rumpler C.VII is single most missing plane from 1918 enviroment - I would replace C.IV with it on the list.

Fokker D.VI was r built in very small numbers (yes it was used operationally, at least once, but with fatal result...) - Roland D.VI (with 200hp engine, of course) is much better fit (and better plug of the performance gap between 1917 machines and BMW ones).

Edited December 2, 2021 by J2_Trupobaw

[jollyjack]

Curtiss 18T, the American triplane, design influenced by Walt Disney?

 

[LukeFF]

Nope

[jollyjack]

Then this Aviatik DI with maybe a periscope as general aiming helper:

 

[LukeFF]

1. We have no valid map and probably never will have a valid map for such a plane.

2. That's not a gunsight on top of the engine.

[Cynic_Al]

On 11/15/2021 at 1:31 AM, US103_Larner said:

The upcoming Snipe / Siemens-Shuckert collector planes have the FC community really excited

 

I'm just as excited albeit for a different reason.  I can't wait to sit back and read the endless arguments regarding both the relative and absolute performances of those planes, prior to the involved threads meeting their inevitable fate.  From past experience I can imagine the intemperance reaching such a level that the whole FC topic has to be put into abeyance.  Fortunately, being one of those offended by the very concept of 'collector' planes, I will be disqualified from entering that debate.

 

I was going to say 'popcorn at the ready', but I wouldn't want it to pass it's use-by date.

[jollyjack]

OK, OK, what about this one then? At least as gunner you can wear a sunday hat ...

 

 

Reply to Luke's remark below; guess it would be an interesting hair dryer in an elite Parisienne barbershop then only.

Edited January 8, 2022 by jollyjack

[LukeFF]

"The S.A had a short and inauspicious career in the French Aviation Militaire, and it was quickly replaced in service by less dangerous aircraft. Contemporary sources indicate that it was seldom used. Few details are available concerning the careers of the 42 S.A-2 airframes delivered, and it never supplied the entire equipment of an escadrille."

 

So...nope. 

[RNAS10_Oliver]

Shorts Type 184

(suitable terrain permitting)

Sopwith Baby

(suitable terrain permitting)

 

Martinsyde Elephant

 

Airco DH9

 

Nieuport 12