Increase mods for Spitfire Mk V or add new Collectors Mk V "Late"?

[FTC_ChilliBalls]

Hey guys, given that we're getting a Channel Map,

I think it would be awesome if we got a way to fly RAF Circus Operation style missions in MP.

 

I know that when the Spitfire Mk V was released,

the limited mods it got made sense in that it fit the historical context.

 

But given the available planes we have for the Germans (109s E7, F2, F4; 190 A3), 

I would love to have more options for the Mk V, namely the Merlin 45M for the LF Mk V,

as well as the clipped wings which where introduced with the LF Mk V.

 

I´m not sure how much work it would be to implement this into the game, 

but I'm certainly willing to pay for an additional Collector's plane if it were necessary to gain these options. 

[Diggun]

Vc would be lovely - with 120 RPG for the 20mm...

 

Or an 'early' IX...

 

Or both.

 

I would buy both.

 

But I have said this at some length.

[Mtnbiker1998]

Imo, this would be way preferable to an entirely new Spitfire in a future battle. We only have 5 allied slots per dlc and I'd much prefer they go to more interesting planes, than another Spit we already have 3 of.

[sevenless]

50 minutes ago, Diggun said:

Vc would be lovely - with 120 RPG for the 20mm...

 

Or an 'early' IX...

 

Or both.

 

I would buy both.

 

But I have said this at some length.

 

Dito!

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

BOMBS

[Rjel]

I'd love to see an early Mk IX even as a new Collector's plane. Please.

[Avimimus]

Well... I like Dieppe as a theatre - so a Mk.IXc (early) would be great.

[sevenless]

6 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

Well... I like Dieppe as a theatre - so a Mk.IXc (early) would be great.

 

This!

 

[Denum]

Would buy also. 

 

No questions asked. 

 

 

 

[CUJO_1970]

Yes, we need more aircraft for the earlier years of Normandy map so of course this makes sense.

 

Would rather have earlier P-38 and P-47 first though.

[Noisemaker]

9 hours ago, CUJO_1970 said:

Yes, we need more aircraft for the earlier years of Normandy map so of course this makes sense.

 

Would rather have earlier P-38 and P-47 first though.

Now, now old chap, the British were in the theatre first.  The Johnny come latelys will just have to take their place in the queue. 

[Diggun]

1 minute ago, Noisemaker said:

were in the theatre first

They'll be thankful when they turn up; we've been keeping it nice and warm for them, don'tcherknow? ?

[ShamrockOneFive]

I think this depends on where the series is heading next. If we end up with some sort of Sicily/Italy scenario then there's room for new Spitfire marks that would be useful in a wider context. A Spitfire Vc with standard, Volkes, and Aboukir filter types and a couple of engine mods with clipped wings would give you a wide range of types used in 1943. This should very much be looked at as a separate aircraft from the Vb despite the similar designation as there were many changes. Similarly, an earlier Spitfire IX could definitely be seen as a separate aircraft. It'd be a nice to have and potentially a lesser investment for the 1CGS team compared to something else so if they wanted a homerun Collector Plane. Either of these would probably be winners!

[Guster]

A vanilla Mk. IX would be neat. I'd fly that.

[FTC_ChilliBalls]

19 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

I think this depends on where the series is heading next. If we end up with some sort of Sicily/Italy scenario then there's room for new Spitfire marks that would be useful in a wider context. A Spitfire Vc with standard, Volkes, and Aboukir filter types and a couple of engine mods with clipped wings would give you a wide range of types used in 1943. This should very much be looked at as a separate aircraft from the Vb despite the similar designation as there were many changes. Similarly, an earlier Spitfire IX could definitely be seen as a separate aircraft. It'd be a nice to have and potentially a lesser investment for the 1CGS team compared to something else so if they wanted a homerun Collector Plane. Either of these would probably be winners!

I think a Mk V "Late" would be the perfect middle ground for any development of a Mk IX "early", since they mainly differed in engine installation at the beginning.

 

Given that we already have the Mk V in Game and that the Spitfire is one of the best documented aircraft of the era, I think a Mk V "Late" would be a perfect low investment high profit kind of plane.

[[F.Circus]FrangibleCover]

19 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

I think this depends on where the series is heading next. If we end up with some sort of Sicily/Italy scenario then there's room for new Spitfire marks that would be useful in a wider context. A Spitfire Vc with standard, Volkes, and Aboukir filter types and a couple of engine mods with clipped wings would give you a wide range of types used in 1943. This should very much be looked at as a separate aircraft from the Vb despite the similar designation as there were many changes. Similarly, an earlier Spitfire IX could definitely be seen as a separate aircraft. It'd be a nice to have and potentially a lesser investment for the 1CGS team compared to something else so if they wanted a homerun Collector Plane. Either of these would probably be winners!

Honestly there's an argument that "Spitfire Mk.Vc" is a stupid designation for that aircraft. It has a new wing, an overhauled fuselage, improved armament, a slightly redesigned cockpit... When they fitted all that to Typhoon they didn't make do with a semi-official letter change, they called it Tempest!

 

That said, I'm increasingly against such important aircraft as the Spit Vc being released as Collector types independent of a module. The current investment in cloud tech and fuel systems makes me feel like 1C intend to stick with 3rd Gen Il-2 for a good while longer yet and that's going to be hard if they blow all of their big ticket aircraft on Collector releases. If we have a Collector Spit Vc and Spit IXc and B-25 and Mustang I and 190A-4 and 109G-1 then we can't do Dieppe because there's nothing to fly!

[Bremspropeller]

On 11/12/2021 at 12:48 AM, CUJO_1970 said:

Would rather have earlier P-38 and P-47 first though.

 

I'd like those, too.

 

Let me reach across the aisle and propose a Mustang Mk I ?

[ShamrockOneFive]

3 hours ago, [F.Circus]FrangibleCover said:

Honestly there's an argument that "Spitfire Mk.Vc" is a stupid designation for that aircraft. It has a new wing, an overhauled fuselage, improved armament, a slightly redesigned cockpit... When they fitted all that to Typhoon they didn't make do with a semi-official letter change, they called it Tempest!

 

That said, I'm increasingly against such important aircraft as the Spit Vc being released as Collector types independent of a module. The current investment in cloud tech and fuel systems makes me feel like 1C intend to stick with 3rd Gen Il-2 for a good while longer yet and that's going to be hard if they blow all of their big ticket aircraft on Collector releases. If we have a Collector Spit Vc and Spit IXc and B-25 and Mustang I and 190A-4 and 109G-1 then we can't do Dieppe because there's nothing to fly!

 

Like I said, I think it matters tremendously on where the series is going next. The Spit Vc might be a key type in a future expansion or they may be going elsewhere and a Collector Plane is the only potential way to get it. Perhaps the same for the Spitfire F.IX.

[DBFlyguy]

3 hours ago, [F.Circus]FrangibleCover said:

 

 

That said, I'm increasingly against such important aircraft as the Spit Vc being released as Collector types independent of a module. The current investment in cloud tech and fuel systems makes me feel like 1C intend to stick with 3rd Gen Il-2 for a good while longer yet and that's going to be hard if they blow all of their big ticket aircraft on Collector releases. If we have a Collector Spit Vc and Spit IXc and B-25 and Mustang I and 190A-4 and 109G-1 then we can't do Dieppe because there's nothing to fly!

The devs have given no indication they ever plan on doing Dieppe or anything related to it.  There's probably more chance of more collector aircraft well before a new WWII "Battle of" is announced... no reason more collector Spitfire variants can't be one of them.

 

On 11/11/2021 at 6:48 PM, CUJO_1970 said:

 

 

Would rather have earlier P-38 and P-47 first though.

Until the two P-47s we already have are properly fleshed out (FM & DM) ...or at least somewhat as capable as the DCS P-47, I don't want to see any other versions of the P-47 in this game. More P-38s would be awesome though!

[[F.Circus]FrangibleCover]

8 hours ago, DBFlyguy said:

The devs have given no indication they ever plan on doing Dieppe or anything related to it.  There's probably more chance of more collector aircraft well before a new WWII "Battle of" is announced... no reason more collector Spitfire variants can't be one of them.

The devs have given no indication that they plan on doing anything except finishing Normandy and FC 2/3. None of us have any real idea what's coming next for the series, for all we know they'll roll it all up and Jason will be off on research trips to Cancun for 1C's seminal Cocktail Hour Simulator. As I said, the current investment in the underlying sim makes me feel like we have a fair number of modules still to come and there is obviously significant support on these forums for such theatres as Tunisia/Sicily/Italy or Channel 1942 which could use a Spitfire Vc.

 

Really it comes down to roadmapping. If we're going to get modules that focus the Spitfire Vc as one of the star players then it can't be a Collector. If it is doomed to existence as a bit part aircraft, bring it on. It doesn't really make sense to ask for it as a Collector or as a main release aircraft without knowing how it's going to fit into the sim, but to take a stab in the dark example of a module for the Channel 1943 (not a realistic one), I would much rather the common Spitfire LF Vc be in the main pack and the rare Spitfire F XII be a collector than the other way around.

 

For what it's worth, I'd far rather that 1C add another dozen Spitfires than a P-47C. It's slightly worse than the D-22 we have, but not in any sort of interesting ways.

[sevenless]

12 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

 

The Spit Vc might be a key type in a future expansion or they may be going elsewhere and a Collector Plane is the only potential way to get it. Perhaps the same for the Spitfire F.IX.

 

As long as I get the chance to fly the baby below or an earlier incarnation of the LF Mk. IX over the beaches of Normandy, all is fine with me. I agree, they should keep the Vc for a possible MED expansion.

 

Edited November 14, 2021 by sevenless

[Mtnbiker1998]

18 hours ago, sevenless said:

 

As long as I get the chance to fly the baby below or an earlier incarnation of the LF Mk. IX over the beaches of Normandy, all is fine with me. I agree, they should keep the Vc for a possible MED expansion.

 

That "baby" just looks like every other Spitfire. We really don't need another one in the game. We've been told that the mk Vb will have a career in Normandy, so obviously it can handle earlier battles, and from there the mk IX and the mk XIV we have can pick up the torch. There's so many other interesting Allied aircraft that the devs could put into the game instead of a million different Spitfire variants. A later P-40, an earlier P-38, hell even a later P-39, or even an F4F would be far more interesting than a 4th Spitfire being added just to name a few.  Most of which were Lend-Leased to the Brits (and the Soviets) anyway, so its not like they'd be missing out on action in career modes. 

[sevenless]

Just now, Mtnbiker1998 said:

That "baby" just looks like every other Spitfire. We really don't need another one in the game. We've been told that the mk Vb will have a career in Normandy, so obviously it can handle earlier battles, and from there the mk IX and the mk XIV we have can pick up the torch. There's so many other interesting Allied aircraft that the devs could put into the game instead of a million different Spitfire variants. A later P-40, an earlier P-38, hell even a later P-39, or even an F4F would be far more interesting than a 4th Spitfire being added just to name a few.  Most of which were Lend-Leased to the Brits (and the Soviets) anyway, so its not like they'd be missing out on action in career modes. 

 

You don´t need to buy it if they offer it. That early or a mid LF.Mk IX could cover the whole 1943/44 timeframe pre-Normandy on BoN and past Normandy on BoBP map and career with engine mods. Furthermore it was the most prominent Mk of the Spitfire from 43-45. All of that what you mentioned has zip map or timeframe in the game. So to each his own I guess.

[Mtnbiker1998]

2 minutes ago, sevenless said:

 

You don´t need to buy it if they offer it.

It doesn't matter if I buy it, if the devs resources went into it instead of something more interesting, thats one less plane we get later. whether that be one of 5 planes in a future battle, or a collector. 

 

I'd love to see a P-51D-5 in the sim too, it'd fill the gap between the P-51B and the D-15 we have nicely, but you don't see my pining for it because we already have Mustangs that can fill that role, with a not that significant performance difference. Just like we already have plenty of Spitfires that can operate in our games timeframe with close enough performance. We can't have every single plane we want so we need to be tactical about which planes get precious development time. 

7 minutes ago, sevenless said:

All of that what you mentioned has zip map or timeframe in the game.

an Earlier P-38 model would work excellently on the Normandy map, and a P-39Q would be perfectly suited to the Eastern Front. P-40 and F4F would be good options for a future Med DLC, which is speculation, but a pretty solid contender for the next battle, just like a Spitfire. Thats why I added them.

 

For a few other options, a P-51A would be excellent for earlier channel battles, or a Beaufighter. There are so, so, so many better options out there than adding a fourth Spitfire to our lineup which barely differs from the others.

[FTC_ChilliBalls]

39 minutes ago, Mtnbiker1998 said:

Just like we already have plenty of Spitfires that can operate in our games timeframe with close enough performance. We can't have every single plane we want so we need to be tactical about which planes get precious development time. 

 

We have 3 different Spitfires, of whom only the Mk IX "Late" and the MK XIV have somewhat similar performance numbers.

The Mk V that we have is pretty far removed from those two, so there is lots of Mks that could fit in there performance wise.

 

As for precious development time, that is exactly why I asked for a Mk V "Late",

as the changes to the current model and therefore development time would be minimal when compared to something different with more complex systems like a P38 or a F4F.

[[-=BP=-]Slegawsky_VR]

https://www.iwm.org.uk/embed/?id=1060021075&media_id=585349

 

 

 

[[F.Circus]FrangibleCover]

On 11/14/2021 at 9:34 PM, Mtnbiker1998 said:

That "baby" just looks like every other Spitfire. We really don't need another one in the game. We've been told that the mk Vb will have a career in Normandy, so obviously it can handle earlier battles, and from there the mk IX and the mk XIV we have can pick up the torch. There's so many other interesting Allied aircraft that the devs could put into the game instead of a million different Spitfire variants. A later P-40, an earlier P-38, hell even a later P-39, or even an F4F would be far more interesting than a 4th Spitfire being added just to name a few.  Most of which were Lend-Leased to the Brits (and the Soviets) anyway, so its not like they'd be missing out on action in career modes. 

There's honestly more difference between a Spitfire Vb and a Spitfire LF Vc, or a Spitfire F IXc/early and a Spitfire LF IXe, than there is between a P-39N and a P-39Q, especially in Soviet service with the wing guns taken off both. The performance differential between a P-40E and P-40N is more significant, but not as big as the gaps between the three Spitfires we have. An earlier P-38 doesn't fit in any campaign we have right now unless you're suggesting a P-38J-1, which is really similar to the J we have.

 

If what you mean is "I don't want to buy British aircraft, I want to buy American aircraft.", just say that. It's not a position I agree with, but it's at least one I think you could support.

[Mtnbiker1998]

2 hours ago, [F.Circus]FrangibleCover said:

There's honestly more difference between a Spitfire Vb and a Spitfire LF Vc, or a Spitfire F IXc/early and a Spitfire LF IXe, than there is between a P-39N and a P-39Q, especially in Soviet service with the wing guns taken off both. The performance differential between a P-40E and P-40N is more significant, but not as big as the gaps between the three Spitfires we have. An earlier P-38 doesn't fit in any campaign we have right now unless you're suggesting a P-38J-1, which is really similar to the J we have.

 

If what you mean is "I don't want to buy British aircraft, I want to buy American aircraft.", just say that. It's not a position I agree with, but it's at least one I think you could support.

I literally mean exactly what I'm saying. I don't want to see another aircraft in the game that theres already 3 of. All the aircraft I mentioned are only available in a single variant. Same reason I don't want to see another bf109 or yak. We have plenty and I'd rather see future dlcs with more diversity.

 

I wish people online would stop throwing around that "hurr arrogant Americans only want to fly American stuff" strawman. I love flying the Tempest, Hurricane, I'm excited for the Mosquito and I'd love to see what other RAF stuff the game can add, as long as it isn't "Spitfire #4"

 

The other important distinction is not just performance but use, if a variant of P-39, P-40, or P-38 were used at a time our existing variants weren't used, it should be in the game.

 

Meanwhile we already have the vb Spit which was in service and totally usable for missions in that era. For example, we've been told that the Vb will have a career in Normandy in the vanilla game. This tells me that the vb we have is fine for content made between 1941 and 1944. So what more do we need?

 

Also, you of all people being the mastermind of the "Battle of Sicily" thread over in the suggestions forum should know exactly where I'm going with my aircraft suggestions. 

Edited November 18, 2021 by Mtnbiker1998

[[-=BP=-]Slegawsky_VR]

 

 

 

Squadron Leader Geoffrey Northcott shot down seven German aircraft over the year following his joining 501 Sqn, six of them whilst he was flying EP120. With seven kills, she is the most credited Mk V in existence and maybe the most credited WWII fighter. She was damaged in a ground collision with Spitfire AB403, July 16, 1942 and returned to Castle Bromwich for repairs. Once repaired she joined 19 Sqn for a short period until ending her operational flying career with 402 (RCAF) Squadron.

The LF does not mean the clipped wing version, some LF`s had the standard wings. The LF refers to the engine rated for low altitude, The Merlin 45 M, 50 M or 55 M. Some LF Mk V had the standard wings while some had the clipped wings. Clipped wings improved the performance at low altitude as well as the roll rate.

http://fighter-collection.com/cft/spitfire-ep120/

 

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

Has 1C ever gone back and added mods to previously released planes in the past? I know they're backed up now and likely don't have time to model things like bombs or clipped wings, but would it be quick and easy to add the 120 rounds per cannon from the vc wing as a mod? I love this plane, but the limited ammo is brutal.

[=621=Samikatz]

5 minutes ago, JenkemJunkie said:

Has 1C ever gone back and added mods to previously released planes in the past?

 

M82F engine for the La-5s8 during Kuban's development, fem pilots for the U-2VS and Yak-1s quite a while after their releases, 150 Oct for the Spit IX with the release of BoBP, 150 Oct for the P-47D-28 with the release of the D-22

 

I think one of the "M" geared Merlins and increased RPG would go a long way towards making the collector Vb more appropriate for 43/44 and wouldn't need much, if any, of a visual adjustment. Bomb pylons and clipped wings would obviously also be wanted, but the plane would need some 3D model work done for that

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

So there is hope then. I'd kill for a spit that would fit the gap between the current vb and ix.

[migmadmarine]

I (an American) would be game for it.