Rama Posted September 3, 2013 Author Posted September 3, 2013 yup, the problem is. People want to install game, jump in MP without ever touching SP and be able to use all stuff in game on the MP arena . And other peoples want to install game, join an online squadron, train in MP with squad mates agains IA, then play MP with squad mates in coop games, online campaigns or MP arena... all this without ever touching SP. If it's a "problem", could you explain me how and why?
VeryOldMan Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 Problem as in what clashes with the concept of unlocking trough SP. A problem does nto constitute somethign wrong... 1+1 = ? is a problem.... no evil there altough.
Rama Posted September 3, 2013 Author Posted September 3, 2013 (edited) Sorry, but I still don't understand how it clashes with the concept of unlocking through SP. I would be glad if you can explain. And I'm not talking about good and evil. unlocking through SP career allows to get new stuff to play with in SP career. That's what is supposed to make it more challenging and interesting to play. Correct? What's the connection with MP? How forcing MP players to play SP career make it more challenging and interesting to play the solo career for those wanting to play it? What's the gain of interest for pure MP players? Where's the clash between MP and the unlocking concept? I'm probably slow-minded, but I still don't see the "problem", maybe could you explain what I missed? Edited September 3, 2013 by Rama
Trooper117 Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 It's simple... no matter what the devs do they won't be able to please everyone. Some, like me will just see what the game brings us and get on with it regardless, and just enjoy it for what it is. Others are more interested in what 'they' want to the detriment of all others. Just swings and roundabouts really
HeavyCavalrySgt Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 The really interesting thing to me about this poll is that the community has at least 241 people active in it before BoS even reaches Beta. I think that is a very good sign.
Rama Posted September 3, 2013 Author Posted September 3, 2013 It's simple... no matter what the devs do they won't be able to please everyone. Staying in the small context of this poll, could you explain to me why it's not possible to please at the same time SP players wanting to unlock stuff in SP career mode and pure MP players that don't want to play SP career? Seem's to me it's easy to make both happy (for this specific feature). Some, like me will just see what the game brings us and get on with it regardless, and just enjoy it for what it is. Some others, like me, are a little more involved, help the dev directly in various tasks, support them the most they can, enjoy the game when it's released... and sometimes ask questions when they don't understand something. There's room for everybody and every level of involvment. Others are more interested in what 'they' want to the detriment of all others. Sorry... I don't get it. Explain how wanting MP players having full access to all game stuff without playing SP career is detrimental to SP players playing career and unlocking stuff? Please don't just say it: explain it, be precise. Don't accuse peoples of some behaviors without hard proofs please....
Trooper117 Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 Don't take it to heart for gods sake, it wasn't aimed directly at you. I'm just pointing out that all people will never be satisfied, its just human nature. And yes, there are people out there that just want things their own way, regardless of others, and don't tell me they aren't in the flight sim world, there are sites full of them that make mountains out of molehills. There is nothing wrong in trying to be involved either.
Rama Posted September 3, 2013 Author Posted September 3, 2013 Ah, Ok... now I get it. I still was in the mind that this specific poll thread scope was only about the unlocking feature (and the benefits/detriments of it) and not about general discussion concerning player behaviors. Sorry to be focussed, it's hard for me to switch to globalities when I am. I know it's impossible to satisfy all peoples, but maybe it's possible sometimes not to disatisfy a sub-category of the players with a specific application of a specific feature (if it's not to the detriment of the other players). I think the dev knows it and manage to make everyone, whatever their favorite game mode is, as happy as possible. At least that's the feeling I got since the start of RoF (and even before). And the last changes about the avaibility of the Yak-1 and the Bf109-G2 seems to show it's still what they want to do. That's also why it's good sometimes for the players to ask questions and give their opinions on specific features.
VeryOldMan Posted September 4, 2013 Posted September 4, 2013 Sorry, but I still don't understand how it clashes with the concept of unlocking through SP. I would be glad if you can explain. And I'm not talking about good and evil. unlocking through SP career allows to get new stuff to play with in SP career. That's what is supposed to make it more challenging and interesting to play. Correct? What's the connection with MP? How forcing MP players to play SP career make it more challenging and interesting to play the solo career for those wanting to play it? What's the gain of interest for pure MP players? Where's the clash between MP and the unlocking concept? I'm probably slow-minded, but I still don't see the "problem", maybe could you explain what I missed? Peopel do not want to have to unlock things in SP to use it in MP!! That is the issue. People want to have everythign available in MP and that is not how thing sounded to be intended by the developers.
Rama Posted September 4, 2013 Author Posted September 4, 2013 But why is it an issue? Why shouldn't it be possible to have players playing SP career and unlocking stuff and have MP modes not affected by it? Is it technically infeasible? Are there other reasons related to interest and challenge of the game? (something I still fail to see... but again, maybe it's just me) Maybe, like me and many others, you have no idea about these possible reasons. This why there's an interest to ask them.
Feuerfalke Posted September 4, 2013 Posted September 4, 2013 (edited) I guess the point is, that people join online-servers without even knowing how to take-off or land. They end up as burning wrecks on the runway, blocking fun for all those experts out there. Even worse if they crash one of the planes with limited availability. I understand this issue. And I also accept that in Eastern states the number of offline-players is much higher than for Europe and the US. As a mission-builder for DCS I even understand that you want to reward players who played your missions. But forcing ALL players to play offline for an extensive time, before having all options available in Multiplayer is simply the wrong approach. That has nothing to do with pleasing some or all. And you can't tell me it's a technical issue. RoF could easily track online and offline-kills. I expect BoS to be no step back from that! We're in the era of web2.0. People don't just join servers to shoot each other. They meet on servers to learn these complex games, to share their experience with others and to train all aspects. If you really want to sort out rookies, make a system like AmericasArmy and many other games did: a simple tutorial and a first multiplayer-mission with a limited difficulty. You can easily make an option to make servers available only to people with a given amount of flying-hours or kills, if you really want to have this elitist servers. It would still be a fairer approach because you can earn your wings offline AND online. Edited September 4, 2013 by Feuerfalke 1
VeryOldMan Posted September 4, 2013 Posted September 4, 2013 But why is it an issue? Why shouldn't it be possible to have players playing SP career and unlocking stuff and have MP modes not affected by it? Is it technically infeasible? Are there other reasons related to interest and challenge of the game? (something I still fail to see... but again, maybe it's just me) Maybe, like me and many others, you have no idea about these possible reasons. This why there's an interest to ask them. Because that is NOT what they are proposing. THey are proposing that EVERYONE be SP or MP needs to fly SP to unlock things.. be to use them in SP or in MP 1
Rama Posted September 4, 2013 Author Posted September 4, 2013 If you really want to sort out rookies, make a system like AmericasArmy and many other games did: a simple tutorial and a first multiplayer-mission with a limited difficulty. You can easily make an option to make servers available only to people with a given amount of flying-hours or kills, if you really want to have this elitist servers. Or maybe have a server option to make them accessible only by registered members of registered squad (since you can here register as a member of a squad)... virtual squadrons are usually the best place to train for online play. Because that is NOT what they are proposing. Everybody knows what is proposed. The questions are not about what is proposed but about why it is proposed. If you have no idea or opinion about, ok, no problems. BTW, if discussing about what is proposed is an issue, then what is this forum for?
Habu Posted September 4, 2013 Posted September 4, 2013 Because that is NOT what they are proposing. THey are proposing that EVERYONE be SP or MP needs to fly SP to unlock things.. be to use them in SP or in MP So players like me who play only online, would have always a part of the game and not the full game, because they don't play solo mode and don't want to play it. Explain me why should i have to spend many times to unlock features in a borring mod i hate ? If you like unlocking system in game, no problem for you, but for me, it's a waste of time and a kind of work. I don't want to work but just playing a game. Here are two solutions for me : Finding a teammate i know very well, and lend him my account hoping he takes on his time to unlocks features for me, or don't play the game. Most of my teammate are only MP player, so i will test the game, and don't play it. But be sure that like Cliff of dover i will warn my squad about that system and the final choice from 777, and as they are MP player, be sure they don't buy a game with unlock.
VeryOldMan Posted September 5, 2013 Posted September 5, 2013 (edited) Dude learn to READ!! For god sake! I am COMPLAINING OF THAT! I am not defending for god's sake! Why in hell people try to overcomplicate a conversation like this? They propose SP unlock things for MP. I HATE IT DAMMIT. I stated it dozen times! And its an Issue because I do not want to play SP. What is so hard to understand? Edited September 5, 2013 by VeryOldMan
Rama Posted September 5, 2013 Author Posted September 5, 2013 ok, ok.... don't know if you're replying to me or to Habu (or to both), but here my thoughts about: - I didn't understood if you were liking or disliking the unlocking stuff in your last replies... and my memory isn't big enough to remember everything I read on this forum (and I read it usually very quickly). I just replied to what I understood from your last replies on what you presented as "issues". - maybe it's because my poor english understanding, or maybe you're not clear enough... or maybe it's both... Anyway... very sorry to have upset you, it wasn't intentionnal.
Habu Posted September 5, 2013 Posted September 5, 2013 (edited) Dude learn to READ!! For god sake! I am COMPLAINING OF THAT! I am not defending for god's sake! Why in hell people try to overcomplicate a conversation like this? They propose SP unlock things for MP. I HATE IT DAMMIT. I stated it dozen times! And its an Issue because I do not want to play SP. What is so hard to understand? Sorry, i apology for my misunderstood. I don't remember every position about that subject from every people who answer. And english is not my native language. Sorry again, goal was not to upset you. Edit : same answer at the same time Rama. Edited September 5, 2013 by Habu
Matt Posted September 5, 2013 Posted September 5, 2013 I guess the point is, that people join online-servers without even knowing how to take-off or land. They end up as burning wrecks on the runway, blocking fun for all those experts out there. Even worse if they crash one of the planes with limited availability. I understand this issue. I don't think that's the reasoning behind it, because i can't believe that those guys who can't take-off or land properly care that much about these mods (maybe they never heard of them at all). Besides that, that's pretty much what i like about MP in the first place. Not everyone is acting the same (which the AI usually does), you will find all kinds of people, new guys who have trouble taking off and those aces which kill everyone in one attack. You never know who you're up against (until personal skins show up and people get a reputation of sorts). I think the reasoning is, that the devs want players to experience the BoS in a historical way, by playing these historical campaigns and not quick missions or some simple furballing MP. So they want to reward players who take the more historical approach. That's understandable. However, MP can be atleast as historical as a carreer mode and many people have made a better experience playing historical MP missions or campaigns than flying SP. 1
Zak Posted September 5, 2013 Posted September 5, 2013 But be sure that like Cliff of dover i will warn my squad about that system and the final choice from 777, and as they are MP player, be sure they don't buy a game with unlock. How do you even manage to find similarities between BOS and ClOD? Seriously, what a remarkable analytic skill here. About unlocking mods in SP to use both in SP and MP - we're at alpha stage now and there are chances that this decision may not be final. Other options will be considered based on your feedback during early access period. 3
AX2 Posted September 5, 2013 Posted September 5, 2013 About unlocking mods in SP to use both in SP and MP - we're at alpha stage now and there are chances that this decision may not be final. Other options will be considered based on your feedback during early access period. Thanks Zak Good News for me ! 1
Habu Posted September 5, 2013 Posted September 5, 2013 How do you even manage to find similarities between BOS and ClOD? Seriously, what a remarkable analytic skill here. About unlocking mods in SP to use both in SP and MP - we're at alpha stage now and there are chances that this decision may not be final. Other options will be considered based on your feedback during early access period. I said that i warned that clod was bad (not that BoS will be bad or not). I just reported problems and informations for my squad. For me the feature of unlocking justify to warn my teammate because we are only MP players. Unlocking system is at the same level of a bad MP mode for us. But as i said i will report the actual and final choice. If the unlocking system is removed, i will say it, like i 'll say it if it stay. But at that moment, unlocking system is present. I don't think that earlier access period will change my state of mind (but we'll see). BoS will not be the first game with unlocking system i'll play. So, i know that i don't like that system, and that i stop quickly all the game using that feature.
Rama Posted September 5, 2013 Author Posted September 5, 2013 Thanks Zak Good News for me ! Same here.
Nil Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 Unlockables only in/for SP carrier, everything unlocked for QMB and Multiplayer. You can't force people to play SP carrier just to get the plane/mod they want in multiplayer, (well you can.. but they are not going to be happy)
Emgy Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 that's already confirmed, see this thread http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/4196-unlocking-bf-109-g-2-when-game-released/?p=88010
Nil Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) I know I started it and got: And there're massive differences that you should note: all Premium and Standard edition owners already own all the planes that you've purchased. But in future we'll offer another edition where player will need to unlock planes as well as modifications for them. That's why the unlock topic may be not entirely devoted to Premium and Standard edition owners - you guys have the planes already. Edited February 17, 2014 by Pigmachine
6./ZG26_Emil Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 Unlocks for SP only would be my preference. The mods available should be decided by the MP server or Co-Op hoster (if we ever get Co-Ops). Lets say for example you want to make a MP mission where some 109s fitted with gondolas will intercept a large formation of bombers, people who've not played the SP Campaign right through might not be able to play the MP mission as it was designed. I think it's a nice idea for SP and gives players something to work towards including better aircraft as the campaign goes on. 1
johncage Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 i love it, please don't change it. people should enjoy the fruits of your labor and learn the game first! why not give them incentive to play the game instead of noobing up the online sessions? really good idea. and no more pay to win, no you have to earn your rewards. awesome!
Jaws2002 Posted September 20, 2014 Posted September 20, 2014 (edited) This topic becomes relevant again. Newer players can get a chance to vote. .. ....it doesn't mean that our voting matters. This topic becomes relevant again. Newer players can get a chance to vote. .. ....not that it matters. Edited September 20, 2014 by Jaws2002
BlackDevil Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 (edited) I don't have the time to fly SP. But I still fly RoF MP after all those years - without the extra motivation of an unlock system. Just keep the unlocking feature within the solo campaign and all will be fine ! I promise to find some time for it once in a while Edited September 22, 2014 by BlackDevil
Finkeren Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 I respect that this was apparently what the devs wanted, and I will definately still find enjoyment in playing the campaign, but I can't say I like the idea of an unlock system in the first place.
dragon76 Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 (edited) Im 39 and have 2 kids and limited time for sims...Im only MPer so no campaign unlocks for me..no time, no interest... Edited September 22, 2014 by dragon76 1
jeanba Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 (edited) I have absolutly nothing against within the frame of a single campaign having to unlock options. But if I play qmb, user mission ..., I want to be able to use all options planned by the "designer". The situation as proposed is for me a "show stopper" and I will seriously reconsider my futur expenses on BoS if the unlocking system leads to an unacceptable limitation. All the more because, as I understand, I score 0 if I don't play according a "preset" difficulty level : as to now, I am not happy with none of them (basiccay, I play with all engien .. difficulties, but with externbal views and padlocks, because I love watching my plane flying ...). So if I fly SP according to the difficulty level I love, I will not be able to unlock anything. Edited September 22, 2014 by jeanba
BraveSirRobin Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 About unlocking mods in SP to use both in SP and MP - we're at alpha stage now and there are chances that this decision may not be final. Other options will be considered based on your feedback during early access period. OK, we're not in alpha any more and the current plan is to force MP players to play the SP campaign to unlock things. Can you explain the logic behind this decision? Because it seem really idiotic to me. why not give them incentive to play the game instead of noobing up the online sessions? really good idea. This design does nothing to prevent noobs from jumping in the online sessions and noobing them up. It just pisses off people who have no interest in flying the SP campaign. 1
Yakmaster Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 (edited) The unlocks are here to stay so i see good business opportunities here with this model lot of guys offering to unlock skins and modifications for money for MP only crowd that doesn't have time to waist in SP but have money to make their problems go away, better then hiring babysitter to guard your kids while you grind for unlocks in SP "When life gives you lemons, make lemonade" all will be ok Edited September 22, 2014 by Yakmaster 1
Jaws2002 Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 Unlocks and bs xp are a big turn off for me. I paid premium FULL PRICE, a year in advance. I want to be able to use the whole game I paid for, not just part of it. 1
BraveSirRobin Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 And quite a few people that only want to play the SP campaign. Why does it piss them off? At least they're doing something that they enjoy in order to unlock stuff.
BraveSirRobin Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 Isn't the entire point of "unlockables" in games like Warthunder that you can unlock things that make you better? You get better planes and weapons and such? Or am I wrong about that?
BraveSirRobin Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 Maybe because they thought they bought a flight simulator not a flying game? No matter how you dress it up, unlocking weapons and mods is a gamey solution and has nothing to do with simulating air combat. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a terrible idea. It's a solution to a problem that does not exist. But it seems like it's just a minor annoyance to SP flyers.
6./ZG26_5tuka Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 (edited) In my opinion it really depends on how you implement such a system. The core idea behind seems logical for me, attracting moer players to flyin SP in order to earn more modueles in skins (whihc oculd probably increased over time to provide more interesting long term game...I mean simplay ). Skins for example are perfectly suited for such a system. They're not effecting aerial MP combat much but neat eye candy for those who want to fly with them. Other upgrades such as the 37mm on the Lagg-3, the Removed armoured plate in the F-4 and the Panzerglass window for the G-2 are also reasonable options for a "ressearch" system. Where I don't agree on is locking common equipment like gunpods, bombs, rockets ect. from overall MP. Same accounts to planes, though this is luckily already put down by Zak. As I have no idea how this system will effect each single plane and the individuality of MP yet I won't vote. I'm not totally convinced yet but also not upset about it. Just holding my final opinion until we have some more insight in this feauture. Edited September 22, 2014 by [Jg26]5tuka
Jaws2002 Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 Isn't the entire point of "unlockables" in games like Warthunder that you can unlock things that make you better? You get better planes and weapons and such? Or am I wrong about that? War thunder is a free to play game. You get a working game with a basic planeset for free. From there you can grind your way to better planes, or you can pay, or a combination of the two. BOS is not free. Far from it. You can't expect people to be willing to do both: pay a premium price, and then do things they don't like, to have access to the stuff they paid for. It's their decision. I want this to work. But if it crashes and burns at release, they only have themselves to blame.
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