Developer Diary 298 - Discussion

[Chief_Mouser]

2 hours ago, Livai said:

For me the 234 cockpit braces not look black enough from close and when you see how depth black pilots eyeglasses are in this game from near and far then it is valid to ask what happen with the black color on planes???

 

 

Except that black isn't black - it's RLM70 Schwarzgrün - and the pilot is clearly an escapee from The Matrix. 

[spudkopf]

On 11/9/2021 at 1:52 PM, Jade_Monkey said:

 

 

 

What is going on? ?

 

I feel like the moderators are pranking Jason by putting an autocorrect function on the forum that switches his name Janson 

 

Must have read, re-read and edited that text about 10 times before posting it, yet I still missed this blatant typo, I can only put this down to a temporary case of re-read blindness, but the initial cause would be fatfingeritis.

I'm glad that unlike social media and mobile phones texts, I can go back in and fix my mistakes, thank goodness there is also no predictive text here, I've often had to shudder when I reviewed some of the texts I've sent back in haste to people. 

Edited November 11, 2021 by spudkopf

[[F.Circus]FrangibleCover]

Janson, after consulting with HQ in Uppsala, will shortly announce a new Battle of Ostergötland module including all of your favourite aircraft: J 22, J 20, J 11, B 5 and B 17 (not that one). No enemy aircraft, obviously. 

[=621=Samikatz]

1 hour ago, [F.Circus]FrangibleCover said:

Janson, after consulting with HQ in Uppsala, will shortly announce a new Battle of Ostergötland module including all of your favourite aircraft: J 22, J 20, J 11, B 5 and B 17 (not that one). No enemy aircraft, obviously. 

 

Maybe it's time to corner the presumably enormous Swedish simming market with an alt-history Rädda Själland expansion, I'm sure nothing could be more profitable

[Duce_de_Zoop]

Maybe I'm being a bit of a whiner here, and I get it's a business and this stuff sells, but does anyone else wish the devs would stop wasting resources on jets? I have no desire to fly a niche night bomber that was only used a handful of time, while iconic planes like the Condor and Beaufighter remain MIA.  

 

Why was this plane chosen anyway? Feels very random for how rarely it flew. Is it just cause it's a relatively simple plane and the time spent modeling it wouldn't be that extreme? Also wondering how this bomber would integrate into multiplayer; it's too fast for anything contemporary, and the historical strategy of bouncing them on airfields doesn't sound fun for anyone involved.

[Chief_Mouser]

30 minutes ago, Duce_de_Zoop said:

 

Why was this plane chosen anyway? Feels very random for how rarely it flew. Is it just cause it's a relatively simple plane and the time spent modeling it wouldn't be that extreme? Also wondering how this bomber would integrate into multiplayer; it's too fast for anything contemporary, and the historical strategy of bouncing them on airfields doesn't sound fun for anyone involved.

 

Because Il-2 GB is made in scenarios, i.e  a module that includes a map and eight (plus 2 collector) aircraft.

What else would you include as a Luftwaffe aircraft in a mid-1944 scenario instead of the Blitz? Especially when you have to rule out night-fighters and anything with four engines? (Which the He177 probably counts as, with its multiple gun positions)

The only alternative to my mind would be the Do217 and that was on its last legs as a bomber and probably flew less sorties than the Ar234 in that period.

 

The Blitz may not be that simple to model either. Yes, the physical model is aerodynamically clean but jets and high airspeeds introduce a whole new set of parameters that need to be taken into consideration.

 

Note that the Ar234 is a collector plane so it's not a compulsory purchase if you don't like it. And, aside from bombing with them, if you can't see the fun in strafing them at aerodromes (I intend to do both) then you have no soul! ?

?

 

PS The Ar234 wasn't a night bomber. 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2021 by 216th_Cat

[ScotsmanFlyingscotsman]

Isn't one of the criteria that there has to be data and an aircraft they can view, for accuracy etc. The 234 is at the Smithsonian. There has only recently been an FW200 become available in Germany. Much as I like the FW-200, one of the most beautiful aircraft built, it was generally employed over the sea, yes in Russia as a transport, but they've done the JU-52. There are no HE-177 or Do-217's around

[Avimimus]

1 hour ago, 216th_Cat said:

 

Because Il-2 GB is made in scenarios, i.e  a module that includes a map and eight (plus 2 collector) aircraft.

What else would you include as a Luftwaffe aircraft in a mid-1944 scenario instead of the Blitz? Especially when you have to rule out night-fighters and anything with four engines? (Which the He177 probably counts as, with its multiple gun positions)

The only alternative to my mind would be the Do217 and that was on its last legs as a bomber and probably flew less sorties than the Ar234 in that period.

 

I agree with you - it is based on historical modules and recreating historical aircraft of interest to those modules (rather than multiplayer gameplay) and the Ar-234 isn't an easy plan to add.

 

By 1944 daylight bombing was done by Fw-190F/G variants. Night bombing (and naval interdiction) continued using a mix of He-177, Do-217E, Do-217K, Ju-88 and Ju-188. Over time these were withdrawn with Do-217E/K and He-177 surviving into December. After that the night bombing fleet was composed of Ju-88 and Ju-188. These were to have been gradually supplanted by Ju-388 in 1945.

 

All He-177 were scrapped.

 

I personally favour the Do-217E as it was used briefly for daylight ops before remaining as a night bomber until the fall of 1944... however, the only surviving examples were pulled out of a sink-hole in the Pyrenes... in comparison the Ar-234 and Do-335 both have complete surviving aircraft preserved.

 

There is one Ju-188 derivative that survives fairly intact (a Ju-388L) which could be used as a reference, and most of the components for the Ju-188 came from the Ju-88 (and had a lot of commonality). So the Ju-188 is probably the most plausible flyable late-war German bomber (as historical documentation could be combined with information from surviving Ju-88 and Ju-388). I'd personally love a Ju-188 because of its absolutely brilliant cockpit.

 

What I'm trying to say is - a late war German bomber might be possible as AI... a Ju-188 is very slightly possible... but the Ar-234 is probably actually easier to research than these more numerous aircraft.

[BlitzPig_EL]

I think an Allied medium is a far more pressing issue than another German medium bomber.  We have two Heinkels and soon two Ju88s, and on the Allied side... Nothing but the sound of chirping crickets.

[LukeFF]

If the B-25 C/D ends up being a no-go, the J model might be better alternative. There are far more of them around today, and while not as numerous as the C/D in the RAF, you do start to see them show up in squadron records in the fall of 1944 operating alongside the C/Ds over northwest Europe. 

5 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

on the Allied side... Nothing but the sound of chirping crickets.

 

I don't think that's a fair assessment, given what has been shared recently. Whatever Allied bomber is being considered, they are all more complex beasts than any bombers that have been modeled recently and so require a lot more research and prep time before committing to building one. 

Edited November 11, 2021 by LukeFF

[Voidhunger]

Ar234 is still scheduled to release in Q2 2022?

[sevenless]

3 minutes ago, Voidhunger said:

Ar234 is still scheduled to release in Q2 2022?

 

Yep. If we are lucky we might see it end of Q1.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Luke, not a slam at the devs, at all.  Aimed at those that want more Axis bombers for a time period where they had negligible impact, whereas the Allied medium and light attack bombers were operating at an all out tempo.

[Trooper117]

3 hours ago, Duce_de_Zoop said:

Why was this plane chosen anyway?

 

Because the Luftwaffles will cream their knickers and buy it... be sure!

[Avimimus]

2 hours ago, LukeFF said:

If the B-25 C/D ends up being a no-go, the J model might be better alternative. There are far more of them around today, and while not as numerous as the C/D in the RAF, you do start to see them show up in squadron records in the fall of 1944 operating alongside the C/Ds over northwest Europe. 

 

Didn't we already get a J in Il-2 1946? I think I'll be hoping for the C/D just for a change. It is a shame that we won't have a solid nosed variant though - those are fun. I suppose we'd need to go with an A-20G-1 or something like that to get a dedicated strafer?

 

 

2 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

I think an Allied medium is a far more pressing issue than another German medium bomber.  We have two Heinkels and soon two Ju88s, and on the Allied side... Nothing but the sound of chirping crickets.

 

We have two Pe-2 fast bombers, the A-20B, and an intruder version of the Mosquito (equivalent to the Ju-88C). So that is technically four two-engined bombers for the Allies. Of course, the Germans are getting the Arado 234... so I suppose they are up one (but the Lisunov Li-2 night bomber is planned for the Allies). So it is much more close to being tied.

 

That said, an Il-4, Tu-2, a Pe-3 or even a strafer version of the A-20 (or a British version) would be welcome I think! A lot of people would rejoice to have the B-25 or B-26... I'm not saying that I wouldn't enjoy another allied bomber - but just that the numbers are actually probably technically equal.

 

The only exception would be if you treat the Bf-110 and Me-410 (or even Me-262) as twin-engined bombers... then the Luftwaffe is up four (instead of evenly matched).

Edited November 11, 2021 by Avimimus

[BlitzPig_EL]

Allied lights vs. German mediums is my issue here. Neither the Pe2 nor the A20B are medium bombers, and the Li2 is a pretty weak (though cool) stop gap affair in no way comparable to a B25, B26, or even a Wellington.

 

As for another US built light, an A20G or A26 Invader would be excellent to have.

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, Avimimus said:

I suppose we'd need to go with an A-20G-1 or something like that to get a dedicated strafer?

 

Sure, but they certainly weren't strafing with them in Europe, owing to heavy flak coverage. That was a Pacific thing. For a true level bomber with a bombardier, the J is what you'd want. 

Edited November 11, 2021 by LukeFF

[[F.Circus]FrangibleCover]

A-20B max payload in the sim is honestly not far off from the usual operational payloads of the B-25 or B-26. Wellington is in a class of its own but then is in a class of its own. A-20B is also lighter, faster and more manoeuvrable than the other US mediums. The other US mediums are better defended, but in terms of warhead-forehead connectivity and 'balance' for Allies, the A-20B is seriously competitive.

 

One can talk about the differences between A and B designations but they're honestly not material. The A-26 was redesignated B-26 after the war, the VVS considered the Havok to be a medium bomber along with the B-25 and Il-4, British classification was complicated but the Bostons went to 2 Group RAF alongside the American Mitchell (B-25) and Ventura (B-34).

[sevenless]

1 hour ago, LukeFF said:

 

Sure, but they certainly weren't strafing with them in Europe, owing to heavy flak coverage. That was a Pacific thing. For a true level bomber with a bombardier, the J is what you'd want. 

 

Not that much of a B-25 specialist, but which B-25 was shown in Catch-22 old film or miniseries? That one will do the trick for me.

 

 

[LukeFF]

4 minutes ago, sevenless said:

 

Not that much of a B-25 specialist, but which B-25 was shown in Catch-22 old film or miniseries? That one will do the trick for me.

 

I think all of them were J models. On a side note, it was that movie that saved a lot of those B-25s from being scrapped.

[migmadmarine]

The miniseries has mostly J's, but I recall a couple of shots that seemed to be Ds

 

[Avimimus]

3 hours ago, LukeFF said:

Sure, but they certainly weren't strafing with them in Europe, owing to heavy flak coverage. That was a Pacific thing. For a true level bomber with a bombardier, the J is what you'd want. 

 

I hedged my bet with the G-1  Since Eastern Europe is still Europe.

 

? But it is good to have the confirmation from you.

 

 

2 hours ago, [F.Circus]FrangibleCover said:

Wellington is in a class of its own but then is in a class of its own.

 

It'd be pretty nice to have the Wellington, Il-4 or Beaufighter as AI aircraft (if we can't get a Lancaster) - as they are actually slow enough for the Ju-88C to catch. Currently, I think its only prey will be the Lisunov Li-2 (and ships/trains).

 

[DFLion]

Memories - Arado pics from one of my original IL2 missions. This was the mission that the Arado flew a recon mission over the Normandy beaches - Allied fighters couldn't catch it? Can't wait for the new Arado - an exciting plane to fly, about the same size as a Hawker Hunter jet.

DFLion

[1/JSpan_Wind75]

El 5/11/2021 a las 14:54, Jason_Williams dijo:

Para ser honesto, no soy un gran admirador de los aviones alemanes de finales de la guerra como lo son algunas personas, pero ver el 234 en todos estos ángulos geniales puede haberme convertido en un fanático. Es mucho más grande y elegante de lo que pensaba que era en mi cabeza. Phil ha hecho un gran trabajo con el modelo externo.

 

Jason

 

Jason, el bombardero perdido es el Do 17

 

Gracias 

Edited December 2, 2021 by 1/JSpan_Guerrero

[Duce_de_Zoop]

On 11/11/2021 at 1:20 PM, scotsmanFlyingscotsman said:

Isn't one of the criteria that there has to be data and an aircraft they can view, for accuracy etc. The 234 is at the Smithsonian. There has only recently been an FW200 become available in Germany. Much as I like the FW-200, one of the most beautiful aircraft built, it was generally employed over the sea, yes in Russia as a transport, but they've done the JU-52. There are no HE-177 or Do-217's around

 

but i wanna fly the condor so bad ;_;