Is there no where safe now

[ACG_Jackman]

Hi all

 

The last few week's I notice that enemy aircraft can pick a Tank out easily when it is under cover in a forest. On the Finish server where I do a lot of tanking it was a lot of fun playing cat and mouse with tank hunters like IL-2s and holding a CP position. But now since your tank can easily be spotted under trees it's taken a lot of the fun out of it. Can anyone else confirm this? . So far I seen one pilot who says he can easily see a panzer in a forest and is busy destroying them. 

Has the game changed after the last update. If so Tank Crew will be no longer any fun when you have no where to hide. 

[SCG_judgedeath3]

Nah, the issue is many pilots put render to minimum or graphics to minimum which makes spotting tanks easy. Or they fly a plane with ai machine gunners and set them to shot on ground targets and they become like ground radar.

[JG27_Steini]

9 hours ago, ACG_Jackman said:

Hi all

 

The last few week's I notice that enemy aircraft can pick a Tank out easily when it is under cover in a forest. On the Finish server where I do a lot of tanking it was a lot of fun playing cat and mouse with tank hunters like IL-2s and holding a CP position. But now since your tank can easily be spotted under trees it's taken a lot of the fun out of it. Can anyone else confirm this? . So far I seen one pilot who says he can easily see a panzer in a forest and is busy destroying them. 

Has the game changed after the last update. If so Tank Crew will be no longer any fun when you have no where to hide. 

 

There are many possibilities to spot and kill a tank. You can easily report an tank via chat or voice communication. Minutes later it will be dead. Or if you kill another tank he can rejoin with a plane will kill you. Playing with planes on the same server used to be fun, but at the end it is very frustrating. Driving 30min to target, finding a perfect place to hide only to be killed soon after by plane destroys the fun for tanker in the game.

[No_Face]

3 hours ago, JG27_Steini said:

 

There are many possibilities to spot and kill a tank.[...]

There is a difference between knowing the area in which a tank is hiding (I know the tank is hiding in this forest) and knowing exactly where it is hiding (it is behind this tree!)

 

Here I think Jackman just finds that even under cover of trees, a tank is never hidden.

 

It's been a long time since I've played multiplayer so I can't say if there are any changes compared to before.

[ShampooX]

Hello folks,

 

I've been talking a little bit with Untamo on this subject and have sent a recording of some very strange stuff from a particular player.  His thoughts are 1.) players may do a quick recon flight at the start of a mission, record it, then jump off to view (where enemy icons will be clearly visible).  Then they come back to the game and know exactly where to go.  Seems a little "labor intensive," but apparently it's a thing.  2.) Players are using the low graphic options that still exist as a feature you can turn on and off.

 

My point to him was that the FVP represents the "best in class" combined arms mil-sim game anywhere out there today.  It strives so hard for realism and immersion, and successfully, why would it still allow low graphics options into its game?  This is something you find on War Thunder, and is well beneath the standards of FVP.  I think we should all get on the FVP forum and politely request an end to the low graphics option because it's good for the game.  Low graphic settings may have been a necessary thing 5-10 years ago, but if you can't afford a system or an internet speed that supports it, in today's world, you shouldn't be playing the game anyway.

 

I agree with the OP that this represents a challenge that, if not addressed immediately,  will make me find other things to do with my time.   Maybe DCS.

[[F.Circus]Wales_Grey]

13 hours ago, ACG_Jackman said:

Hi all

 

The last few week's I notice that enemy aircraft can pick a Tank out easily when it is under cover in a forest. On the Finish server where I do a lot of tanking it was a lot of fun playing cat and mouse with tank hunters like IL-2s and holding a CP position. But now since your tank can easily be spotted under trees it's taken a lot of the fun out of it. Can anyone else confirm this? . So far I seen one pilot who says he can easily see a panzer in a forest and is busy destroying them. 

Has the game changed after the last update. If so Tank Crew will be no longer any fun when you have no where to hide. 

 

If your tank is a distinctive shape and color (e.g. "large mustard yellow rectangle" - this describes basically every German tank) then the contrast between it and the other nearby shapes will let other people recognize your presence more easily. Disrupting the perceived shape and color of an object is the basis of camouflage. Concealment in woods can help hide the vehicle, but only if the foliage is dense enough.

 

In my experience playing Il-2, the following have been demonstrated (anecdotally) to be true about Tank Mode:

 

1. Ground vehicles of all sorts are very easy to spot from the air in the open, particularly if they are moving.

2. Ground vehicles are only really concealed (from air and ground) in woods if the vehicle is more than 5-10m from the edge of the treeline.

3. If you are in concealment and shoot, you are no longer in concealment and should behave as though someone has seen your tracer(s) and is now looking to explode you.

4. Players often possess the mental capacity known as "object permanence", unless their attention bandwidth is fully consumed.

5. If anyone says "tank spotted at XYZ" in teamchat, your vehicle is now eligible for same-day delivery of 100 kg packages.

6. Clownfishing up in enemy ground targets is sometimes effective at deterring airstrikes, particularly with the weapons that are most effective at destroying tanks (500 lb+ bombs).

7. Tanks aren't invulnerable to guns, some aircraft have decent penetration on AP projectiles; expect to be killed by a strafing plane with an effective cannon in 2-3 passes unless you're in a heavy tank/heavy SPG.

 

In Summary: Tanks can do good, but getting destroyed by airpower is just part of the STuG life.

 

7 minutes ago, No_Face said:

Here I think Jackman just finds that even under cover of trees, a tank is never hidden.

This, more than anything else, is what likely happened. Tanks are really big! Someone likely saw the tank prior to an attempt at concealment, or saw the shots (from the tank or a static emplacement or from another player) and thus was able to figure out where the tank was likely going to be. FVP also has a lot of "event happening in this grid!" notifications and the various "enemy near this spawn" indicators. It stands to reason that if you're at a target (in tanks or planes), everyone on the opposite team will know when you are close to or attacking a target. 

 

This matters because once a pilot has their search area more limited - from "the map" to "this front", from "this front" to "this grid", from "this grid" to "this specific feature" - finding something as big as a tank is usually just a matter of time.

 

[No_Face]

The thing is, for me, knowing where I am on a replay, I'm already having a hard time finding my way around ? so I'm still having a hard time understanding how easy it is to find.

For example, I took some screenshots and even though it's not the best camouflage on my tank, I don't see myself easily.

 

What I see from my tank:

 

the coverage is not very good.
However, if I take a little height, I do not see myself much anymore.

 

 

and if I add a little angle :

 

 

 

I am almost invisible.

 

So of course, the further away you are, the less detailed the trees are. That's why the lines of trees (at the edge of the roads or delimiting the fields) hide us very badly. The further away we are, the more we stand out from the landscape.

But in the case of a forest, no matter the distance, it remains dense.

[[F.Circus]MoerasGrizzly]

FWIW when I was still playing on flat screens with the graphics turned all the way up, I also had no problem with spotting enemy armour. Usually because of what Wales said. Also, note No_Face's pictures: Pilots can see those tracks too.

 

FVP usually has an over-abundance of Axis fighter pilots, if you can figure out where they are or get them to cover you, IL-2s will have a significantly harder time.

Edited November 4, 2021 by [F.Circus]MoerasGrizzly

[ShampooX]

Pilots might like to think a "tank is never hidden," but there are certain configurations of trees on the ground where you can not see a tank from any except the lowest of angles and only if you are looking in the exact right place as you speed by.  Not impossible, but not probable either.  In previous QTR's I rarely got spotted from above while sitting on your map as a big fat red icon for a long time.  And even after spotted, evasion in the right kind of terrain, even from multiple planes, was hard but certainly possible to achieve.  And this includes from those who turn on the automatic AI gunners.   Using HE rounds eliminates the tracer.  Again you have to be looking in the exact right place to see the muzzle blast and good tank player knows when and from where to pull the trigger, from the sound of your engines, in this regard. 

 

We totally agree that airpower is the most dangerous threat to tanks in the game - especially for those who like to "show up" on your maps and announce their location.   But for those who've been successfully evading and escaping for months now, to suddenty have a plane fly straight to your exact position with no recon or searching first, and from higher altitudes I might add, and do this on a regular basis while other players are flying right by overhead...says to any reasonable person that something is wrong.

 

In order to eliminate doubt, second guessing, and the eventual disappearance of tank players all together.....low graphic options have to go.

 

Either that or give us bushes, just like the Falaise Pocket 1944.

3 minutes ago, [F.Circus]MoerasGrizzly said:

FWIW when I was still playing on flat screens with the graphics turned all the way up, I also had no problem with spotting enemy armour. Usually because of what Wales said. Also, note No_Face's pictures: Pilots can see those tracks too.

 

FVP usually has an over-abundance of Axis fighter pilots, if you can figure out where they are or get them to cover you, IL-2s will have a significantly harder time.

Those tracks dissappear after 30 seconds.  But LOL the Axis fighter pilots rarely come down below 2k

[[F.Circus]Wales_Grey]

12 minutes ago, No_Face said:

The thing is, for me, knowing where I am on a replay, I'm already having a hard time finding my way around ? so I'm still having a hard time understanding how easy it is to find.
For example, I took some screenshots and even though it's not the best camouflage on my tank, I don't see myself easily.

I am almost invisible.

So of course, the further away you are, the less detailed the trees are. That's why the lines of trees (at the edge of the roads or delimiting the fields) hide us very badly. The further away we are, the more we stand out from the landscape.

But in the case of a forest, no matter the distance, it remains dense.

 

The best way to think of it is like this: have you ever seen any old American cartoons from the 80's? There's a different... uh, how should I say this? Characteristic of luminance(?), the way lights reflect and propagate between the ground/foliage and vehicles.

 

 

 

 

 

Obviously none of these are deep in a wooded zone but unless the tank is placed such that no portion of the vehicle is visible from anywhere between 30° from zenith to around 55° from zenith, in a full 360° around the vehicle, it's very easy for a momentary glint of light or glimpse of the vehicle to be detected. I've had moments where flying along at 1.5 km was interrupted by a "suspicious-looking patch of ground" or "that shadow doesn't look right" or "metal in the treeline vibes" and closer investigation let me find an AFV trying to conceal itself.

[No_Face]

I must be bad, on the second screenshot I don't see any vehicles ? and on the 1st screenshot I didn't see the vehicle on the right ? (you can't put them in full screen, so I have an excuse).

On the other hand, there is a big difference between these screenshots which shows a vehicle almost in the open, and a vehicle which would be in a forest.

 

PS : That's it, I found the vehicles on the second screenshots. I was looking on the road or on the left side, that's why I couldn't see anything.

[[F.Circus]Wales_Grey]

55 minutes ago, ShampooActual said:

We totally agree that airpower is the most dangerous threat to tanks in the game - especially for those who like to "show up" on your maps and announce their location.   But for those who've been successfully evading and escaping for months now, to suddenty have a plane fly straight to your exact position with no recon or searching first, and from higher altitudes I might add, and do this on a regular basis while other players are flying right by overhead...says to any reasonable person that something is wrong.

 

In order to eliminate doubt, second guessing, and the eventual disappearance of tank players all together.....low graphic options have to go.

I think you are wildly over-estimating the importance of enforced minimum settings on a server-by-server basis to the longevity of the Tank Crew module based solely on the number of times you've received air mail.

 

56 minutes ago, ShampooActual said:

But LOL the Axis fighter pilots rarely come down below 2k

Sounds like a team/player derived issue, by what means would you suggest the FVP server operators or 1C could incentivize cooperative action in multiplayer? The server's scenario design already gives primacy to ground activity, so I'm not sure what else could be done short of forcing people to queue together as multiple discrete roles ala League of Legends to resolve this lack of support for ground forces. 

[ACG_Jackman]

Guys I get what you are all saying. At the end of the day I 100% agree a Tank is fair game out in the open fields on roads in towns but my issue is a hurricane can pick a tank out in the middle of a large thick forest is shocking unrealistic 

That's what happen to me over the last couple of nights. After drive 30+ minutes and that happens is very disappointing and putting me off at the moment. 

[[F.Circus]MoerasGrizzly]

2 hours ago, ShampooActual said:

But LOL the Axis fighter pilots rarely come down below 2k

 

Yes, but the Axis team consistently having no idea how to play the game as it is on Finnish is the Axis's team problem, not Tank Crew's

Edited November 4, 2021 by [F.Circus]MoerasGrizzly

[ShampooX]

1 hour ago, [F.Circus]MoerasGrizzly said:

 

Yes, but the Axis team consistently having no idea how to play the game as it is on Finnish is the Axis's team problem, not Tank Crew's

I think you missed the sarcasm thee - that was exactly my point.

[SCG_Neun]

We need a server admin setting that requires players to have grass detail set to "ON", as an option, just like they did for the AI shooting toggle.  Without this, you just have to go closed server and have vetted players that you can trust to level the playing field.  The differences are just too great to have anything resembling a simulation, it's just that simple.   Unless you enjoy players gaming the simulation and reducing the immersion and practicality of ground cover.  It's not a perfect combat environment as is especially on the standard maps, but with grass turned off, it's a pool table....

10 hours ago, SCG_judgedeath3 said:

Nah, the issue is many pilots put render to minimum or graphics to minimum which makes spotting tanks easy. Or they fly a plane with ai machine gunners and set them to shot on ground targets and they become like ground radar.

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by SCG_Neun

[352ndOscar]

I’ve seen not one comment of vehicle skin usage.  I’ve commented on this elsewhere.  You put on what you think is a great camouflage skin for the terrain setting.  You jump in the game and hide in the first forest you see and set up your ambush.  Then “boom”; you’re dead.  Why?  Because the person who spotted and killed you doesn’t have that great camo that you put on, so he see’s the default, bright-assed, orange skin standing out pretty as you please in the trees.  Boom, you’re dead.  It was for this reason that I suggested a “community-driven” specifically-identified generic skin pack for multiplayer missions that could be made globally available here in the forum and by server hosts.  It’s obvious that 1C/777 isn’t moving to help.

[ACG_Jackman]

3 hours ago, 352ndOscar said:

I’ve seen not one comment of vehicle skin usage.  I’ve commented on this elsewhere.  You put on what you think is a great camouflage skin for the terrain setting.  You jump in the game and hide in the first forest you see and set up your ambush.  Then “boom”; you’re dead.  Why?  Because the person who spotted and killed you doesn’t have that great camo that you put on, so he see’s the default, bright-assed, orange skin standing out pretty as you please in the trees.  Boom, you’re dead.  It was for this reason that I suggested a “community-driven” specifically-identified generic skin pack for multiplayer missions that could be made globally available here in the forum and by server hosts.  It’s obvious that 1C/777 isn’t moving to help.

I doubt skins will help but that would be a cool idea. 

I think it's simply down to guys setting their graphics low specifically to target tanks with there hurricanes. 

[[F.Circus]Wales_Grey]

7 hours ago, SCG_Neun said:

We need a server admin setting that requires players to have grass detail set to "ON", as an option, just like they did for the AI shooting toggle.

I have grass set to "DISTANT", and it is a negligible difference at absolute best. It doesn't even render at the ranges you spot tanks at from aircraft! These are screengrabs ingame, 1920x1080, run on close-to-max settings.

 

grey pzIII

 

green t-34s

 

The tanks in the screenshots are even more noticable when the plane is in motion because they are 3D objects and their shape/color/reflections change as the plane moves.

 

5 hours ago, 352ndOscar said:

I’ve seen not one comment of vehicle skin usage.  I’ve commented on this elsewhere.  You put on what you think is a great camouflage skin for the terrain setting.  You jump in the game and hide in the first forest you see and set up your ambush.  Then “boom”; you’re dead.  Why?  Because the person who spotted and killed you doesn’t have that great camo that you put on, so he see’s the default, bright-assed, orange skin standing out pretty as you please in the trees.  Boom, you’re dead.  It was for this reason that I suggested a “community-driven” specifically-identified generic skin pack for multiplayer missions that could be made globally available here in the forum and by server hosts.  It’s obvious that 1C/777 isn’t moving to help.

 

This already exists, in the form of the Tank Skin forum, Haultier's Skin Downloader, and 1C actively encouraged people to submit tank skins for consideration in the official TC files. If a player wants the skins, they can get the skins.  Also the default skin is either Green, Grey, or Sand depending on the tank.

Edited November 5, 2021 by [F.Circus]Wales_Grey

[moustache]

3 hours ago, [F.Circus]Wales_Grey said:

This already exists, in the form of the Tank Skin forum, Haultier's Skin Downloader, and 1C actively encouraged people to submit tank skins for consideration in the official TC files. If a player wants the skins, they can get the skins.  Also the default skin is either Green, Grey, or Sand depending on the tank.

 

but if ennemy have not exactly the same skin in his folders, he see you with basic skin... so, often, it is useless to use appropriete skin...

and worse I think this 1c proposal is dead ... it was a year ago ...

Edited November 5, 2021 by moustache
,

[[F.Circus]MoerasGrizzly]

Then use the default skins. If you want a level playing field, it's right there.

[SCG_Neun]

[F.Circus]Wales_Grey 

 

 

I never tested this from the air, but you make a good point.  I've only tested on the ground, and there is a huge difference there for land  combat.  Thanks for pointing this out, and I will take a look at this as well, but we still need the option to lock in these settings if not for tank combat alone.  Also, sitting out in what would be determined "the open" for grass rendering, isn't exactly trying to hide from the tanks perspective.  I think the tree foliage should have better results.  The comparison should be between settings set with grass detail on, verses off, but I will have a look.....

Edited November 5, 2021 by SCG_Neun

[JV44HeinzBar]

22 hours ago, ShampooActual said:

In order to eliminate doubt, second guessing, and the eventual disappearance of tank players all together.....low graphic options have to go.

Is this even an option on the server settings? I know nothing about how to setup a dedicated server, but if it's possible, perhaps someone should start a poll?

 

HB

[SCG_Neun]

Grass settings need a server admin setting, like they did for AI shooting.  The setting that I had in mind would simply require the grass detail to be selected to "ON" and not penalize someone with low cpu/gpu capabilities.  Currently it's all up to the honor system.

[[KG]Destaex]

1 hour ago, SCG_Neun said:

Grass settings need a server admin setting, like they did for AI shooting.  The setting that I had in mind would simply require the grass detail to be selected to "ON" and not penalize someone with low cpu/gpu capabilities.  Currently it's all up to the honor system.

We all know where the honour system gets you with online gaming. There are always a % that will be greedy or desperate enough to exploit things.

[JV44HeinzBar]

3 hours ago, SCG_Neun said:

Grass settings need a server admin setting, like they did for AI shooting.  The setting that I had in mind would simply require the grass detail to be selected to "ON" and not penalize someone with low cpu/gpu capabilities.  Currently it's all up to the honor system.

I agree. I don't know if the current dedicated server allows very much control over graphics, but IMO these options should be available on the dedicated server software. I know this will sound bad, but if you don't have the hardware to run this sim online smoothly, upgrade. We all do it. As far as the honor system goes, it's fine for online friends, but there will always be more than a few people that will disregard the suggestion. Forcing online play to a standard will be the only way these people will comply. The more settings for dedicated servers, the better.

 

HB

[SCG_Neun]

I've looked at it from the air and the grass detail settings really don't have much of an effect on concealment at least from the sky looking down.  On the ground there is a big difference if rendered under normal combat distances.  Also under the same lighting conditions camo plays a significant role in concealment which I've noticed has improved over time with the updates.  So just my quick observations.... from the air, concealment without the aid of AI gunners needs slow movement under heavy foliage conditions with good generic camo settings.  In the open, or with sparse foliage, especially moving....you don't stand much of a chance. top "no grass" settings, 2nd down, ultra settings, 3rd ultra grass settings and bottom, no grass settings.

 

Edited November 6, 2021 by SCG_Neun

[ShampooX]

Here is some of the video I was referring to earlier.  I was on their map near a Russian tank spawn ion a PZIV.  That obviously drew attention.  I had fired once with AP to knock out an AA gun so that probably gave my general position away with the tracer.  This player flew right to my spot however, each time after I had moved several times, kept coming directly back.  I try to hide in an area where at least 3-4 trees are in close proximity and this makes it almost impossible to see sky from.  As you can see I was in excellent cover.  Somehow this player knew where I was each time.  Engine was off - no smoke -and enough time lapsed that tracks had disappeared, not that they'd really matter here.  Strangely his shots were just a little bit off each time - you can see them in one photo below photo - almost as if aiming for another spot a meter or two away.  Almost like there was a target on me...... but not right on me.   Strange.  If you didn't have the blue marker in any of these screenshots below, you would never be able to find me from this very low altitude.  The only explanation can be low graphic settings, or a 55 inch monitor.....or both.  This is a very good player from what I understand, but this proof here is that just good eyesight alone, and excellent flying, is not the only thing happening.  Something else is up. I doubt this player would waste a very long successful IL2 career on a stupid hack, but this defies the abilities of almost every other player in the game.  I'm a big fan of Occams Razor - it's saved my life a couple times....the simplest solution is often the right one.  I'll leave you to your own conclusions on that thought, but if low graphic settings are the issue here, then simply for the good and the development of the game, they have to go.

Edited November 6, 2021 by ShampooActual

[No_Face]

@ShampooActual Indeed, without your blue markers, you are almost invisible.

So I still don't understand how they do it.

[C6_lefuneste]

6 hours ago, NoelGallagher said:

but what can we do... he's just skilled player who does impossible things ...

 

And finally push casual gamers outside of online gaming. Those "god like" players should play only on server having only people of their rank. It will never be possible to increase player number untill these kind of guy ruin your game, whatever they are cheating or not.

[NoelGallagher]

2 hours ago, ShampooActual said:

Here is some of the video I was referring to earlier.  I was on their map near a Russian tank spawn ion a PZIV.  That obviously drew attention.  I had fired once with AP to knock out an AA gun so that probably gave my general position away with the tracer.  This player flew right to my spot however, each time after I had moved several times.  As you can see I was in excellent cover.  Somehow this player knew where I was each time.  Engine was off - no smoke -and enough time lapsed that tracks had disappeared, not that they'd really matter here.  Strangely his shots were just a little bit off each time - you can see them in one photo below photo - almost as if aiming for another spot a meter or two away.  Almost like there was a target on me but not right on me.   Strange.  If you didn't have the blue marker in any of these screenshots, you would never be able to find me from this very low altitude.  The only explanation can be low graphic settings, or a 55 inch monitor.....or both.  This is a very good player from what I understand, but this proof here is that just good eyesight alone, and excellent flying, is not the only thing happening.  Something else is up. I doubt this player would waste a very long successful IL2 career on a stupid hack, but this defies the abilities of almost every other player in the game.  I'm a big fan of Occams Razor - it's saved my life a couple times....the simplest solution is often the right one.  I'll leave you to your own conclusions on that thought, but if low graphic settings are the issue here, then simply for the good and the development of the game, they have to go.

well thx for posting this with detailed explanations 

i once asked to him how could you ever spot the german tank inside the forest 

and his answer was yellow german tank camo stands out in dark brown forest 

well hmm i don't think so judging by this shots you shared

i gotta keep the recording turned on while i'm playing on finnish server 

especially on this moscow map

this kind of thing never happend before tho

when you are deep inside the forest you never get discovered unless someone knows your approx pos 

and fly with slow biplane right above you to find you

Edited November 6, 2021 by NoelGallagher

[ShampooX]

Hey said the same thing to me Noel.  We know now that he's FOS.

[[F.Circus]MoerasGrizzly]

19 hours ago, SCG_Neun said:

I've looked at it from the air and the grass detail settings really don't have much of an effect on concealment at least from the sky looking down.  On the ground there is a big difference if rendered under normal combat distances.  Also under the same lighting conditions camo plays a significant role in concealment which I've noticed has improved over time with the updates.  So just my quick observations.... from the air, concealment without the aid of AI gunners needs slow movement under heavy foliage conditions with good generic camo settings.  In the open, or with sparse foliage, especially moving....you don't stand much of a chance. top "no grass" settings, 2nd down, ultra settings, 3rd ultra grass settings and bottom, no grass settings.

 

Pretty sure that even at ultra grass settings, grass doesn't render at all from the air. For pilots it's just there to make take-offs and landings more pretty (and laggy)

[JG1_Wittmann]

On 11/5/2021 at 7:53 AM, SCG_Neun said:

Grass settings need a server admin setting, like they did for AI shooting.  The setting that I had in mind would simply require the grass detail to be selected to "ON" and not penalize someone with low cpu/gpu capabilities.  Currently it's all up to the honor system.

 

As long as  AI  AT guns and tanks can see you through grass like it's not there,  for me grass detail is a non-starter.  The AI behavior  and line of sight is horrible so that is a handicap I would not play with

[SCG_Neun]

1 hour ago, JG1_Wittmann said:

 

As long as  AI  AT guns and tanks can see you through grass like it's not there,  for me grass detail is a non-starter.  The AI behavior  and line of sight is horrible so that is a handicap I would not play with

That's a matter of AT placement for the most part and it has been addressed some in a previous update.  But I know what you mean in some of the really high grasses, but it doesn't give us too much trouble in our scenarios, as long as you can see the smoke or flashes and you travel in spread formation so you can get the angles on most positions that might have been difficult for a single player to spot.

3 hours ago, [F.Circus]MoerasGrizzly said:

Pretty sure that even at ultra grass settings, grass doesn't render at all from the air. For pilots it's just there to make take-offs and landings more pretty (and laggy)

Yes, I think you're right on this.  

[JG1_Wittmann]

Neun,  in the scenarios you run, it is as you said.  The problem is,  most of the time I spend in a tank I am either alone, or maybe with 1  possibly 2 others,  and that is not enough to get the visibility needed.  The AI AT is very low.  If they introduce a stug, jp4  or hetzer, those are low, and easily missed in high grass.  If my gunsight I can't see, but can be seen  that is a serious handicap on a server.  The AI issue was supposedly resolved in that if you are 50M  inside a treeline they cant see you.  Before, they could shoot you through   a forest  unless you went into a depression and they hit the dirt.  AI doesn't need to see you it's programmed and knows ur there, sight or no.

 

I just wish they would eliminate the BS damage from strafing attacks, from any AC that is not at an angle the round can penetrate.  How do you get .1% damage from a 20mm HE shell, buttoned up ?  On finnish, 50 hit's and the wonk in the AC gets a kill whether he would have IRL or not

[[F.Circus]MoerasGrizzly]

On 11/6/2021 at 7:47 AM, ShampooActual said:

but if low graphic settings are the issue here, then simply for the good and the development of the game, they have to go.

I assume you're recording that from a track? If so, you really should run it again with low graphic settings and compare.

[SCG_Neun]

16 hours ago, JG1_Wittmann said:

Neun,  in the scenarios you run, it is as you said.  The problem is,  most of the time I spend in a tank I am either alone, or maybe with 1  possibly 2 others,  and that is not enough to get the visibility needed.  The AI AT is very low.  If they introduce a stug, jp4  or hetzer, those are low, and easily missed in high grass.  If my gunsight I can't see, but can be seen  that is a serious handicap on a server.  The AI issue was supposedly resolved in that if you are 50M  inside a treeline they cant see you.  Before, they could shoot you through   a forest  unless you went into a depression and they hit the dirt.  AI doesn't need to see you it's programmed and knows ur there, sight or no.

 

I just wish they would eliminate the BS damage from strafing attacks, from any AC that is not at an angle the round can penetrate.  How do you get .1% damage from a 20mm HE shell, buttoned up ?  On finnish, 50 hit's and the wonk in the AC gets a kill whether he would have IRL or not

Yes, I understand your points.

[C6_lefuneste]

Talking about plane spotting tanks under trees, I did some QMB training this afternoon to practice "anti tanking"  in Il2, and one time IA tanks were travelling through a forest (Kuban). I discovered that, if you fly in circle, there was always an angle from which you can shortly see the tanks, due to their color (they were grey).  So if you are really good and the tank is not moving, you can memoryze its position and fire without real view on it.

[SYN_Haashashin]

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