Careers were just improved dramatically but there's more work to do.

[I./JG52_Woutwocampe]

First of all, thanks again devs for improving the way AI flights spawn in career missions. Its more dynamic and less redundant now, and its great.

 

However there's still room for improvement and here's what I think should be updated next : AI skills and experience in careers.

 

I've been told in the past that if you chose career difficulty : medium for instance, all AI pilots will be veterans. I assume easy will be rookies and hard will be aces.

 

Thats way too simplistic. Like with aircrafts selection for AI flights, this needs a rework for variety's sake. If I fly Luftwaffe in BOM I expect to fight many rookies. Same if I fly allies in BoBP. Unfortunately it isnt the case. Since I always chose medium for the difficulty, well I know what to expect, veterans. All the time, no surprise, even if its not historically accurate. 

 

So I'd like to see that improved next. 

[LukeFF]

It's something I'm hoping for as well. The typical German AI fighter flight during Rhineland should consist of something like a Veteran or Regular flight leader and 3 Novice wingmen. Aces should show up very rarely. 

 

On the Allied Rhineland side, about the only rookie pilots one should be seeing are transport pilots, while Veterans or Regulars would make up the bulk of fighter pilots. 

 

It would definitely mix things up a bit if coded properly. ??

Edited November 1, 2021 by LukeFF

[PB0_Roll]

Totally agree, it would be lovely to have a setting named "historically plausible" in addition to what exists.

 

In addition, I would like not to see any more the ennemy pair vulching my airfield for 10mns until shredded by AAA, while my own AI squadron happily flies in circles around the airfield with their their xmas tree navlights, barely moving to avoid vulchers. If they still have fuel and ammo, let them engage and defend the airfield.

 

If they're out of ammo, OK to let them fly circles until threat dissappear ofc, but when they're not, fight !

 

These pairs of vulchers could also assess what they're attacking, and if outnumbered and/or meeting strong AAA, they should retreat full speed after one pass.

[LColony_Kong]

Unless they did this already and Im not aware they need to fix the following as well:

 

-AI units do not demonstrate any kind of group tactics, like high covers etc.

 

-AI frequently struggle to maintain formation, especially when the player changes altitudes of a mission. Ive seen bomber formations collide with each other when doing simple turns to return home.

 

-AI sometimes dont complete their objective, for no reason at all. Such as B-25s ignoring the target they are supposed to bomb.

 

-Altitudes of missions are kind of silly on the western front. Everything happens at about 6000ft. There should be missions across a range of altitudes. And the same should be true of hostile AI.

[I./JG52_Woutwocampe]

Improving careers is something, improving AI is something else. Although improving AI would make careers better, among other things.

[Yogiflight]

7 hours ago, LColony_Red_Comet said:

-AI sometimes dont complete their objective, for no reason at all. Such as B-25s ignoring the target they are supposed to bomb.

like in 'Intercept bombers' missions, where it is enough to heavily damage one bomber out of a three ship formation and the formation will jettison their bombs and RTB.

So three damaged bombers is enough to stop the bombing raid of nine bombers.

[FTC_Zero]

There won't be variety, unless we have actually better adapting ai. I would care more about suited flight behaviour for the flown plane. It is ironic that in flying Circus faster biplanes actuall boom and zoom, but fw190 or p47 only know how to turn right. Ai difficulty does affect just some parameters like aim and view checks and not the actual manoeuvring. But maybe I am totally wrong xD at least that is my impression. But no joke about seemingly smarter ww1 ai pilots.

[LukeFF]

4 hours ago, ZeroCrack01 said:

But maybe I am totally wrong

 

Yes ? The AI is a lot smarter now than it was a few years ago. 

[Feathered_IV]

Yes.  The AI used to be terrible.  But now it has improved to the point where it is nothing special. 

[Eisenfaustus]

2 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

Yes ? The AI is a lot smarter now than it was a few years ago. 

I agree - SP dogfighting is quite fun now. And to all those who find it to easy: It‘s a game - we are much better at playing the game then historical pilots could be at fighting because it is much easier. We know anything we want about the enemy plane and we learn from mistakes that would have put real life pilots out of the cockpit forever. 
 

But there is room for improvement (there always will be of course):

- discipline: If I want to lead my flight into an advantageous attack position I have to do that at an absurd distance as they will break formation as soon as they see Enemy planes. 
- engagement decision: AI way too often picks fights it can’t win. Although I’m under the impression that this has gotten a little better recently as well…

- group tactics: I‘d love to see historical formations and cooperation ad pairs/swarms… At least until casualties destroy unit integrity. 
These are the most pressing AI improvements I personally wish for. 
 

But even more pressing in my personal opinion is an radio comm overhaul that brings comms on par with il2 46. But from what I have read here over the years I think this will never happen. A pity. 

 

[Feathered_IV]

3 hours ago, Eisenfaustus said:

 

But even more pressing in my personal opinion is an radio comm overhaul that brings comms on par with il2 46. But from what I have read here over the years I think this will never happen. A pity. 

Thats why I prefer Flying Circus.  I don’t have to listen to “Attacking enemy, it’s close!” hundreds of times in a row during a single mission. 

[PB0_Roll]

They tend to less repeat the same line over and over recently.

[JG27_Mainz]

What is the difference between rookie/veteran/ace AI? Does it affect the way they dogfight, or does it only affect their view cone and aim?

[FTC_Zero]

On 11/11/2021 at 5:44 AM, LukeFF said:

 

Yes ? The AI is a lot smarter now than it was a few years ago. 

I am not denying that. But better doesnt mean good. I do not want to say that is generally bad. It is impressive that it can handle the FM where other titles would use a simplified FM for AI. 

But when i fly a yak1 69 i want the ai to be able to disengage, like a fw190a3 to outruninng me or a 109 to outclimbing me. AI turns with you until they are dead or other ai shot you down by coincidence.

 

Again, when flying the albatros i see se5 or spad13 running away because they a way faster and would lose a turnfight, which is great, while flying the yak, 109 and 190 are easy mode all the time because they always turn with you 24/7. Even against 8 ace 190 they cant shoot you down if you turn cycles all day. That gives me 2 assumptions. One  is that ai difficulty is not linked to their flying routine, but by artificially lowering their ability to aim their guns only. Second assumption is, that ai behaviour can be plane specific, otherwise i would not see flying circus planes do cool disengagements and great battles planes do not. Which is intriguing at the same time.

Edited November 12, 2021 by ZeroCrack01

[LukeFF]

3 hours ago, ZeroCrack01 said:

But when i fly a yak1 69 i want the ai to be able to disengage, like a fw190a3 to outruninng me or a 109 to outclimbing me. AI turns with you until they are dead or other ai shot you down by coincidence.

 

Honest question: when's the last time you flew a stock career mode mission on the hardest difficulty level? Because I'm not seeing this forever-turning behavior that so many people like to talk about. I just flew a 190 D-9 Free Hunt mission the other day that was highly intense. Our opposition was a mix of Spitfire XIVs and Tempests and man, I was amazed at how well the XIVs would climb between engagements - which is exactly what a good XIV pilot should be doing. Eventually I was nailed by one of them because I lost sight of him and he came around and shot off my tail section. It was a was a great mission -  except for being shot down, of course. ?

 

This isn't to say that the AI doesn't need more improvement, but it's a far, far cry from when it was just blandly, boringly predictable in its maneuvers. 

Edited November 12, 2021 by LukeFF

[FTC_Zero]

10 hours ago, LukeFF said:

Because I'm not seeing this forever-turning behavior that so many people like to talk about.

 

14 hours ago, ZeroCrack01 said:

But when i fly a yak1 69 i want the ai to be able to disengage, like a fw190a3 to outruninng me or a 109 to outclimbing me. AI turns with you until they are dead or other ai shot you down by coincidence.

Test flight chasing a Fw190a3 ace without shooting at him. Doesnt matter what, 190 does not disengage and even slows down in a straight line. No way a good pilot would or even a novice would fly that plane that could easily ourrun a yak

Track: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Z3bz9zG0KO1pmhom6MXw3W0PZQY63N20/view?usp=sharing

Tacview: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OkQ83IRtvlyJRhbobeY5u4U6nsGKaoX3/view?usp=sharing

 

Edited November 13, 2021 by ZeroCrack01

[Feathered_IV]

On 11/12/2021 at 4:12 AM, PB0_Roll said:

They tend to less repeat the same line over and over recently.

 

I just gave it a try.  Stalingrad VVS career phase 2, protect the northern factory area.  I counted 88 times in about ten minutes before I hit Alt-F4 to exit the game.

[FTC_Zero]

Same test with yak1 69 and dw190d9, 'butcher bird', more like, 'butchered bird' with that ai it would do the same with even 5km high advantage. If you fly a fw190a3 career on stalingrad the loss rate of those flyers is insane. Dont be mistaken by it pushed fighter bomber role later on. It is first and foremost a fighter, and a very nasty one. In a team the enemy sould be on the defensive and especially in that area they can engage and disengage at will in most cases. A group of fw190 dont change anything. No dragging but turnfighting. If very lucky other fw shoot the pursuer

[LukeFF]

4 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

I just gave it a try.  Stalingrad VVS career phase 2, protect the northern factory area.  I counted 88 times in about ten minutes before I hit Alt-F4 to exit the game.

 

No offense, but I don't believe that. Upload a track file where we can see this happening. ?

[I./JG52_Woutwocampe]

The AI has improved indeed but there's still that tourist mode that kicks in every now and then. I was flying Dora yesterday in a free hunt. I got jumped by 4 spits on my way back home and fought them alone while my mates were hovering above the fight doing nothing. Telling them to engage enemy fighters or covering me didnt help. 

 

Its beyond annoying to be outnumbered while your whole squad is asleep at the switch. I noticed that it happens often when primary objective is complete, so something in the AI navigation routines prevent it from joining a fight, even if the enemy is clearly engaging. 

 

Please devs, look into it.