Vive Pro 2's Motion Compensation fixed, absolutely fantastic

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Hey guys,

 

HTC updated the Motion Compensation on the Vive Console this week. As a result the Vive Pro 2 has the best Motion Compensation in class now.

 

Setting the Pro 2 to 120Hz, I could play IL-2 fluently reprojected from 60fps in maximum quality. When IL-2 went down to 40fps (e.g. on the airfield on take-off), it still kept reprojecting to 120Hz. The entire impression was smooth. IDing was smoother than I've ever witnessed in 90Hz reprojections. Shooting was easier. No flappy birds either - none ?

 

The high temporal resolution of 120Hz vs what is commonly 90Hz means that any artifacts covering 1 or 2 frames get almost invisible. The ultra high resolution of the headset means that the approximation (what reprojection is, comparing pixel bordering pixel) gets much more precise than we're used to.

 

Common artifacts such as nose-cannon fire in 109 or propellers spooling up or quickly blocking/unblocking sun with cockpit bars over and over again remain though, as in every other headset, but are less present and rarer. That happens in every headset and is on IL-2.

 

 

P.S. The Varjo Aero will really need 120Hz as well. Running IL-2 on 60fps reprojected to 120Hz is fantastic, and at 45fps repro'd to 90Hz the Varjo couldn't achieve that accuracy and will have way more artifacts. Don't think we can run that thing with native resolution at 90Hz in IL-2 without reprojection, so it's kind of important.

Edited October 29, 2021 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[dburne]

 

That is certainly excellent news for the Vive Pro 2. Their Motion Compensation has been the bane of their headset since release.

Having said that I really had a good experience running with it disabled, now I look forward to trying it out with it on at 120 Hz.

[dburne]

Just checked it in Mechwarrior 5 Mercenaries - have been nuts deep into a single player campaign so wanted to continue with that this afternoon.

Worked quite well with refresh rate set at 120 Hz.

 

Hope to be able to try it out in my three flight sims tomorrow and see how it does.

[dburne]

Did a clean install of IL-2 this morning due to an issue I was having trying to launch the game. That is all good now, but now with my Vive Pro 2 it is horrible.

Get to the menu and everything is moving and shaking like it is at 1-2 fps. Tried it in both 120 Hz and 90 Hz mode, same result.

Not sure what is going on here. Going to try other games and see if it is only IL-2.

 

Edit: Seems to be just IL-2 - DCS is fine.

Edit 2: Also seems to be only the game GUI that is affected, once in plane flying all is well. But getting something loaded in game is a real pain with the screen shaking and moving constantly when in the menu screen. Not sure what is going on here with it. Fresh clean install.

Edited October 30, 2021 by dburne

[dburne]

I uninstalled Steam VR,  deleted any Steam VR files in the appdata folders, and re-installed Steam VR.

Still doing this in my IL-2 Menus, it is horrible whilst in menu. Flying is ok.

DCS and MSFS2020 do not do this, only IL-2.

Also tried turning off Beta on Steam VR still the same.

I am stumped on this one.

 

I can fly in IL-2 but I just can't stand the menus to get to that point. It is horrible.

Edited October 30, 2021 by dburne

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

I have none of the problems you described... can't help you with it unfortunately.

 

Also have 2 guys in my squad who also field Vive Pro 2s, they also don't have that issue. So it's something related to your *IL-2 setup I guess. Hope you can get it fixed.

 

P.S. I'll now refrain from reinstalling IL-2. ?

Edited October 30, 2021 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[dburne]

Yeah thanks hope I can get it figured out, certainly I will not be using it like it is now. It is ok on flying but can't stand trying to work with the menus to get to that point like it is. No other game so far is doing that to me just IL-2 so unless something comes to me I guess I will not be running it.

Edited October 30, 2021 by dburne

[chiliwili69]

10 hours ago, dburne said:

It is ok on flying but can't stand trying to work with the menus to get to that point like it is

 

Just to check it out with your Index, so you can isolate to problem (headset related or not)

[dburne]

3 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

Just to check it out with your Index, so you can isolate to problem (headset related or not)

 

Yeah I may do that, although would need to reinstall the Index software which I would rather not do yet. Plus seems IL-2 only game doing this so far.  Got a couple of ideas I want to try out first before going to that, will be later this afternoon before I get a chance.

 

Thanks will advise how I make out later today. 

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

It may be as simple as IL-2 reaching 115-125fps in the menu.

 

You're supposed to lock the framerate to a max of 80, so you are always in reprojection and never achieve 120 real fps. Because going to 120 real fps means that the reprojection instance is stopped. When it is restarted after dipping below 120fps, it takes 2-5 seconds to fully settle and regain accuracy.

[dburne]

48 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

It may be as simple as IL-2 reaching 115-125fps in the menu.

 

You're supposed to lock the framerate to a max of 80, so you are always in reprojection and never achieve 120 real fps. Because going to 120 real fps means that the reprojection instance is stopped. When it is restarted after dipping below 120fps, it takes 2-5 seconds to fully settle and regain accuracy.

 

Good idea and something to check thanks. I did try in both 120 Hz and 90 Hz mode and it did the same.

I think I may know what it was but won't be able to check until later in the afternoon as we are headed out for a while.

Will update as soon as I can later today.

Edited October 31, 2021 by dburne

[dburne]

Well I thought I was on to something but apparently not.

So I had done another clean install of the game. This time looking around in settings under camera, I noticed the game had assigned a bunch of POV actions to various buttons on my CM3 Throttle by default. So I cleared all of those out.

 

But nope - still does it really bad in any menus. Also it is doing it if I switch to an exterior view and then back to my cockpit view for a few seconds and then smooths out again.

 

I also tried setting target fps to 80 and that did not help. With the exception now of switching to external view then back to cockpit view, everything is fine whilst flying and performance seems good. But I just can not handle the craziness in the menus at all.

Odd that this is the only game doing it to me as well. Have run this game for many hours in VR without a hitch till now.

 

I will keep on trouble shooting and see if come across anything else that might be causing it but am starting to lose hope here. My other sims run beautifully and this one sure used to.

Edited October 31, 2021 by dburne

[dburne]

I am lost. Even though it is working fine in both DCS and MSFS2020 ( and other VR games) I am going to just uninstall both Steam VR and Vive Console software and start all over with both of them from scratch like I am setting a new headset up and see if that makes any difference.

Just makes no sense to me after all the hours I have put in with IL-2 in VR then doing a clean install of IL-2 trashes it in VR for me.

[dburne]

Well that did the trick! A clean install of both Vive Console and Steam VR like I was setting the headset up anew has restored everything to as it should be, all looking gorgeous in IL-2 once again!

Odd that it seemed to be the only game that was affected, but at least it is back to all good now whew!!

That one had me pulling my freakin hair out! I guess somehow some files in the VR software got corrupted.

Edited October 31, 2021 by dburne

[dburne]

Actually it ended up not being IL-2 only that was affected by this issue.

I have been running MechWarrior 5 Mercenaries with the third party VR Mod. The Mod only supports inside the mech gameplay, not in menu screens. 

Well I was getting some stuttering when first entering the Mech but it would smooth out as I began movement. I thought it was just an issue with the third party mod, but apparently it was not. After reinstalling Vive Console and Steam VR it too has smoothed out nicely, no more stutters as I was beginning in the Mech.

Very strange issue and nice to have it all well now.

[dburne]

Well dang it happened again yesterday evening. Have gone through the removal and reinstall of both Vive Console and Steam VR and all is well again. Not sure what is triggering this. I know one time yesterday evening I accidently tried to close Steam VR before Vive Console and everything got hung up and had to switch my PC off. I have to make sure I exit Vive Console first.

Maybe that had something to do with it, will have to pay careful attention to what I am doing just before it happens again.

[dburne]

Yep still doing it now. Only thing I can think of it seems to start after playing MechWarrior 5 Mercenaries in VR.

No idea why that would be, I could see maybe the VR Mod affecting that game, but to affect others and the whole VR experience seems really strange.

Guess all I can try next is another clean install of Vive Console and Steam VR, and not launch MechWarrior 5 Mercenaries to see if it happens again without running that game. Something somehow seems to be corrupting my Vive Console/SteamVR software.

 

Going to disable the Mod for MW5 and then do another clean install of VR software and see how I get along without running that game.

[dburne]

Well apparently it is not the VR Mod for MechWarrior.

I disabled and deleted the Mod, did a new clean install of both Vive Console and Steam VR.

Launched into IL-2 a few times and it did ok, just tried again and it was a stuttering shaky mess in the menus.

After exiting IL-2 the Steam VR image was shaky and stuttering for a few moments then cleared up,

 

Starting to look like I maybe have a headset going bad.

[TheSNAFU]

Strange that the headset would be the cause since it works fine in game. But I suppose it could be the problem. I Hope you get it sorted out soon dburne.

[dburne]

Yeah have now tried various USB 3 Ports all to no avail, same issue.

Major shaking and stuttering of image in a game. Steam VR Home looks fine, but then major issues after launching a game.

After exiting a game it will have some issue in Steam VR Home for a moment or two and then clear up.

Very weird - only does it in game and seems in any game now.

 

Have sent message into support at HTC , will see how this goes. Been a great headset till now, disappointing.

Probably easiest will be to just hook my Index back up rather than the Reverb G2. I prefer the G2 for flight sims but can get by for a couple months with the Index I guess.

Edited November 3, 2021 by dburne

[shirazjohn]

12 hours ago, dburne said:

Yeah have now tried various USB 3 Ports all to no avail, same issue.

Major shaking and stuttering of image in a game. Steam VR Home looks fine, but then major issues after launching a game.

After exiting a game it will have some issue in Steam VR Home for a moment or two and then clear up.

Very weird - only does it in game and seems in any game now.

 

Have sent message into support at HTC , will see how this goes. Been a great headset till now, disappointing.

Probably easiest will be to just hook my Index back up rather than the Reverb G2. I prefer the G2 for flight sims but can get by for a couple months with the Index I guess.

Hi dburne could it be heat issue as i believe you have just had your gpu replaced under warranty,  it could be overheating during gameplay and then when it cools the problem goes away. Or maybe the headset overheating. Just a thought.

[dburne]

51 minutes ago, shirazjohn said:

Hi dburne could it be heat issue as i believe you have just had your gpu replaced under warranty,  it could be overheating during gameplay and then when it cools the problem goes away. Or maybe the headset overheating. Just a thought.

 

No there is no cooling issue here, thanks. GPU temp running around 60-65c whilst gaming.

edit: Hmm just checked when I first reported the issue with MW5 on the VRWarrior forum, seems it was right around the time of getting the replacement GPU. I still don't think it is the issue but who knows, going to hook up my Index headset and see what it does.

Edited November 3, 2021 by dburne

[dburne]

So far Index seems to be fine, will use it the bulk of the day today to be sure.

[dburne]

Switched back to Vive Pro 2, stuttery shaky mess. Then back to Index, smooth as can be. So obviously not in my Index trackers as I use them for both.

Problem is in the VP2 headset I am sure. Have not read much good on Vive's support for these things either.

Still waiting to hear back from them from my initial contact to them yesterday.

Edited November 3, 2021 by dburne

[dburne]

Ok heard back from HTC and now have a support ticket. Lots of things they want me to check many of which I have already done.

Will see how this goes - at least in the meantime I am enjoying the Index again which still smells new. 

[dburne]

Ok have submitted all info requested. Will see where it goes from here.

I will say it was kind of nice using the Index again today, been a while. I forgot how nice that extra FOV is.

Edited November 3, 2021 by dburne

[dburne]

Heard back from HTC this morning asking for a little more info and for me to do a couple more tests. Have done so and supplied that info - sounding like they are leaning toward a possible cable issue. Will see what they come back with.   At least they are being fairly responsive so far in the process.

[chiliwili69]

On 11/3/2021 at 7:13 PM, dburne said:

at least in the meantime I am enjoying the Index again which still smells new

 

This is the good thing of keeping more than one device  ?

 

Glad to hear you indentified the guilty guy.

[dburne]

4 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

This is the good thing of keeping more than one device  ?

 

Glad to hear you indentified the guilty guy.

 

Yeah that is the nice thing, have both Reverb G2 and Index sitting here as well as Rift S. As I already had Lighthouse 2.0 Trackers up and running  with the Vive Pro 2 it made the most sense just to use the Index which also allowed me to rule out an issue with the Lighthouse trackers. Plus I was not real keen on reinstalling WMR.

 

So now I have heard back from another contact in support at HTC asking me to try and reinstall of Steam and Vive Console.

I replied I had already tried that three times during all my troubleshooting prior to opening the support ticket.

Pretty sure at this point it is the headset or cable.

 

In the meantime enjoying using the Index again. Man handling that thing compared to my other headsets, the Index just reeks of solid quality.

I hope when Valve releases their next iteration of Index, they maintain the same solid quality level of the original Index.

Edited November 5, 2021 by dburne

[dburne]

Ok so after a couple of more back and forths today seems they have agreed for me to send the unit back for them to check out and repair.

To be honest I have seen some pretty bad reports of others experience with this over on the Vive forums. Will see I guess how this goes.

I have sent my info to them and am awaiting the go ahead to send the unit back and where.

 

In the meantime been gaming all day in my Index once again and having a great time.

[dburne]

So I asked HTC for clarification on what to send, and they insist headset only as that is what the RMA is for. I am not to send the Link Box, or the face pad, or the cable. I asked support about that as if it turned out it was the cable how would they know if I did not send it, they said they would know.

Not sure about that one -  probably it is in the headset anyway - I am hoping at least they can get it sorted with just getting the headset back.

I have a pre-printed Fed EX label to send it back at their expense so at least they are doing that.

 

I will advise how all this turns out. In the meantime I am enjoying my Index again which is kind of cool.

I should be able to get this shipped out on Monday, and it is going here in the states to WA.

 

Edited November 6, 2021 by dburne

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

I had a similar issue two days ago. Turns out my new Bluetooth Keyboard was to blame. It is true that the VP2 (as the Reverb G2) is susceptible to such disturbance, while the Index/VP1 remain rocksolid! I wanted the same formfactor as my work Surface Pro 8 so I got a Microsoft Designer Compact Keyboard. 

 

I'm back to my Logitech G915 TKL with a dedicated Dongle now.

 

For me, it was the Bluetooth service of Windows somehow interrupting the entire I/O with its Patch (Windows) to halt temporarily to retreive the keyboard from a its energy saving sleeping state (built into firmware) to catch the inputs that have been piled up during reactivation, until BT connectivity has recovered. I then searched online a bit and found out that customers had been complaining about lost button inputs due to the keyboard going to sleep to quickly. Seems Microsoft hotfixed that with a bad solution.

 

With a cabled keyboard / dongled using Logitech's Lightspeed this does not appear anymore.

 

Maybe check this out as well, deactivate Bluetooth, make sure no devices are connected that interrupt anything, only use cables, and try, even if just for the sake of it.

[dburne]

2 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

I had a similar issue two days ago. Turns out my new Bluetooth Keyboard was to blame. It is true that the VP2 (as the Reverb G2) is susceptible to such disturbance, while the Index/VP1 remain rocksolid! I wanted the same formfactor as my work Surface Pro 8 so I got a Microsoft Designer Compact Keyboard. 

 

I'm back to my Logitech G915 TKL with a dedicated Dongle now.

 

For me, it was the Bluetooth service of Windows somehow interrupting the entire I/O with its Patch (Windows) to halt temporarily to retreive the keyboard from a its energy saving sleeping state (built into firmware) to catch the inputs that have been piled up during reactivation, until BT connectivity has recovered. I then searched online a bit and found out that customers had been complaining about lost button inputs due to the keyboard going to sleep to quickly. Seems Microsoft hotfixed that with a bad solution.

 

With a cabled keyboard / dongled using Logitech's Lightspeed this does not appear anymore.

 

Maybe check this out as well, deactivate Bluetooth, make sure no devices are connected that interrupt anything, only use cables, and try, even if just for the sake of it.

 

Actually I have a Logitech G915 Keyboard and use it wirelessly with the dongle, I do not use the Bluetooth.

But yeah I did try with the cable plugged in as well.

[dburne]

OK Vive Pro 2 is on the way to Seattle via Fed Ex.

Hopefully they can get this sorted. In meantime Index doing well for me so glad I still had it.

[dburne]

Much as I hate to I may have to go ahead and install WMR and WMR for Steam VR again to hook up my Reverb G2 again.

Really missing that good cockpit clarity I have become used to, Index just is not quite there for me. It is great in some VR games but flight sims I still find it lacking some. Makes me really appreciate the image and performance I was getting with my Vive Pro 2.

 

Tracking shows next Monday before HTC receives the Vive Pro 2 I sent, allow another week or so for testing and possible repair, then yet another week transit back to me.  So more likely I am looking around a month before getting it back.

[dburne]

Ok so Reverb G2 all set up again on my rig.

OMG - at least in MSFS 2020 using Open XR, Reverb G2 royally spanks the Index.

The sharpness, clarity and beauty of the image is way better in the Reverb G2 with Open XR. Performance is great with some much higher visuals along with higher resolution and hardly any artifacting with Open XR Motion Reprojection. And zero stutters as compared to the Index which had them.

 

I apparently had forgot how well the Reverb G2 did with MSFS 2020 due to the Open XR implementation. Will probably keep the Reverb G2 installed just for that sim even after getting a working Vive Pro 2 back.

[dburne]

Now my Reverb G2 starting to black out on me - lol sometimes I can't win for losing.

[Charlo-VR]

34 minutes ago, dburne said:

Now my Reverb G2 starting to black out on me - lol sometimes I can't win for losing.

 

Yikes, sounds like the original cable issue I had with two of my original HP Reverb G2 cables dying. You should definitely contact HP about sending you their newer cable, which is thicker and has a power switch on the breakout box.

[dburne]

1 hour ago, Charlo-VR said:

 

Yikes, sounds like the original cable issue I had with two of my original HP Reverb G2 cables dying. You should definitely contact HP about sending you their newer cable, which is thicker and has a power switch on the breakout box.

 

Yeah I already went ahead and just ordered the new cable. Hope to have it in a couple of days.

Also fwiw HP having a flash sale on the new Reverb G2's with the better tracking for 449.00

https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/pdp/hp-reverb-g2-virtual-reality-headset

 

That is a heck of a bargain if anyone is looking for a new G2.

Edited November 10, 2021 by dburne

[dburne]

Well to update turns out my Reverb G2 issue with headset blacking out was due to a power management setting in WMR that defaulted to " let Windows decide". I changed that to " Never " and it solved that issue prior to my getting the new updated cable.

I did get the new updated cable hooked up as well, it is about a third larger than the original Link box, and doing quite well - also has an on/off switch which is nice. So at least I know I have as solid connection now as I can get.

 

Vive Pro 2 shipment via Fed EX to their Seattle repair facility - was supposed to be delivered today but now is showing a delay with expected delivery on Thursday the 18th. I shipped this puppy out on the 8th.  No telling how long I am going to be without that headset! At least I have my Reverb G2 and Index to hold me over. Using Index for some VR games ( MechWarrior 5 Mercenaries is awesome in the Index ).  Reverb G2 for flight sims.  Index and Reverb G2 seem to be co-existing nicely for me.

Edited November 15, 2021 by dburne