Damage Model and ballistics.

[ghostly_doggo]

Flew a recent sortie in the Spit XIe, love the aircraft but i was trying to shoot down this JU88 and for the life of me could not get his engine to leak anything other than fuel, most of the time I would blame this on my bad accuracy and incompetency as a war bird pilot lol, but looking at where i had hit him its clear to me his engine not only should have stopped working but should had been completely decimated by the 20mm hispano hits i put on it. From what i can count i scored at least 6 direct hits to the back of the engine.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

You do know that the Ju-88 doesn't have Dynamic Visual Damage yet, right? Meaning, the damage won't necessarily show up where you hit it, but rather where some designer on the Dev team thought it'd look cool.

Edited October 23, 2021 by AEthelraedUnraed

[ghostly_doggo]

No i didn't, i think if i did i wouldn't have asked. But it shows decently accurate, i was targeting that right engine.

Edited October 23, 2021 by ghostly_doggo

[AEthelraedUnraed]

17 minutes ago, ghostly_doggo said:

No i didn't, i think if i did i wouldn't have asked. But it shows decently accurate, i was targeting that right engine.

Yeah, that's what most people target, so that's why they put more damage there

 

DVD is actually a pretty neat technology, have a look at Dev Diary 275:

The plan is to eventually enable DVD for all aircraft, but right now it's only the ground vehicles, the P-51 and a couple of recent Flying Circus planes. I'm sure you hit that Ju-88 pretty near the engine, but it might've been a bit to either side, or further near the trailing edge of the wing, where it would do less damage.

 

Edited October 23, 2021 by AEthelraedUnraed

[ghostly_doggo]

8 minutes ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

Yeah, that's what most people target, so that's why they put more damage there

 

DVD is actually a pretty neat technology, have a look at Dev Diary 275:

The plan is to eventually enable DVD for all aircraft, but right now it's only the ground vehicles, the P-51 and a couple of recent Flying Circus planes. I'm sure you hit that Ju-88 pretty near the engine, but it might've been a bit to either side, or further near the trailing edge of the wing, where it would do less damage.

 

That i did not know they were working on, i appreciate you sending the link, looking forward to this as it comes to fruition. 

[oc2209]

6 hours ago, ghostly_doggo said:

Flew a recent sortie in the Spit XIe, love the aircraft but i was trying to shoot down this JU88 and for the life of me could not get his engine to leak anything other than fuel, most of the time I would blame this on my bad accuracy and incompetency as a war bird pilot lol, but looking at where i had hit him its clear to me his engine not only should have stopped working but should had been completely decimated by the 20mm hispano hits i put on it. From what i can count i scored at least 6 direct hits to the back of the engine.

 

There's 2 things to consider about gunnery versus bombers:

 

1) AP ammo is considerably more effective than HE at killing crew and causing engine damage. The size of a bomber means that the shrapnel effects of 20mm shells are much more easily 'absorbed' by the empty or non-critical spaces in a bomber as opposed to a smaller fighter. The aerodynamic damage done to wing surfaces from HE is also negligible compared to how it affects fighters. I'm not interested in getting into arguments about how this compares to reality, I'm just stating what I've observed in my gaming experience here.

 

2) It's much easier to aim accurately at certain parts of a bomber with nose guns versus wing guns. Which is why it's better to rake your fire across a bomber when you have wing guns, rather than trying to hit specific parts. Unless you're firing at nearly perfect convergence range (which is rare against a bomber, since you're usually approaching it at high speed, thus rapidly changing the firing distance), you will likely miss your target and only hit around it.

 

I made two short clips to show what I mean:

 

La-5FN with AP-only ammo:

 

Spoiler

 

 

And yes, the return fire from the Ju-88 did set me on fire, but it quickly extinguished luckily. I have the AI set to ace. In the following clip, I'm not hit much at all because I come in to the attack with more speed:

 

Spitfire IX versus Ju-88:

 

Spoiler

 

 

The Ju-88 went down with a pilot kill. Unsure if it was the 20mm or .50s that did it, but I can assure you it was AP regardless.

 

If you want HE hits to do damage against a bomber, you're better off aiming at the wing roots than the engines; you're more likely to cause a fuel fire that way.

[ghostly_doggo]

On 10/23/2021 at 5:19 PM, oc2209 said:

 

There's 2 things to consider about gunnery versus bombers:

 

1) AP ammo is considerably more effective than HE at killing crew and causing engine damage. The size of a bomber means that the shrapnel effects of 20mm shells are much more easily 'absorbed' by the empty or non-critical spaces in a bomber as opposed to a smaller fighter. The aerodynamic damage done to wing surfaces from HE is also negligible compared to how it affects fighters. I'm not interested in getting into arguments about how this compares to reality, I'm just stating what I've observed in my gaming experience here.

 

2) It's much easier to aim accurately at certain parts of a bomber with nose guns versus wing guns. Which is why it's better to rake your fire across a bomber when you have wing guns, rather than trying to hit specific parts. Unless you're firing at nearly perfect convergence range (which is rare against a bomber, since you're usually approaching it at high speed, thus rapidly changing the firing distance), you will likely miss your target and only hit around it.

 

I made two short clips to show what I mean:

 

La-5FN with AP-only ammo:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

And yes, the return fire from the Ju-88 did set me on fire, but it quickly extinguished luckily. I have the AI set to ace. In the following clip, I'm not hit much at all because I come in to the attack with more speed:

 

Spitfire IX versus Ju-88:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

The Ju-88 went down with a pilot kill. Unsure if it was the 20mm or .50s that did it, but I can assure you it was AP regardless.

 

If you want HE hits to do damage against a bomber, you're better off aiming at the wing roots than the engines; you're more likely to cause a fuel fire that way.

Agreed intirely on the ballistics with you and I'll work on sweeping with the guns to increase effectiveness. But I can tell you I hit that engine enough to where their should have been both ap and he landing on target. Oh well, he's lucky to live another day.