Proposed Modifications

[No.23_Triggers]

Here are a few suggestions on some new aircraft modifications for Flying Circus planes (and a couple mods I think should be removed - and why!). I won't bother mentioning parachutes as modifications here as that topic is already ongoing in another thread. 

Proposed "New" mods are written in Green, and Current mods I think should be removed are written in Red.  Aircraft I believe these mods would be suitable for is written in bold black, below the modification name.  

Rear-View Mirrors
Albatros D.Va,   Fokker D.VII,   Fokker D.VII F,   Pfalz D.IIIa,  Spad XIII,   Spad VII 
A very common 'field modification' seen on several of Flying Circus Aircraft's historical counterparts was the addition of a small circular rear-view mirror, most typically mounted in the centre of the upper top wing. Photographic evidence shows that the addition of a mirror was commonplace,  and I believe this mod would be a very welcome addition to FC. If nothing else is considered in this list, Rear-View mirrors should be! 

Photos of Rear-View Mirrors (in spoiler):

Spoiler

A rear-view mirror mounted in the centre of the upper wing (Albatros D.Va): 



Another, smaller, mirror mounted in the centre of an Albatros D.V's top wing: 



A rear-view mirror which appears to be mounted unusually on the right-hand side of the cockpit (Albatros D.Va): 



A good close-up shot from the side of a Mirror mounted in the centre top wing of this Albatros D.Va.



Another good view of a mirror affixed typically to an Albatros D.Va.



Another mirror mounted on the centre-top-wing of this Albatros D.V.



A rear-view mirror mounted in the centre of the top wing of a British SPAD XIII:



A rear-view mirror mounted in the centre of the top wing of a French SPAD XIII:



A rear-view mirror mounted in the centre of the top wing of an American SPAD XIII:



A smaller mirror seems to be mounted at an angle in the centre of this SPAD XIII's upper wing.



A large rear-view mirror mounted in the centre of the top wing of a SPAD VII.



Another mirror mounted centrally in Georges Guynemer's Spad VII.



Another mirror mounted to a Spad VII.



A good view of a mirror mounted to a SPAD VII's upper wing. 



Another good view of a larger mirror mounted to a 150hp Spad VII.




A rear-view mirror mounted in the centre of the top wing of a Fokker D.VII.



Another rear-view mirror mounted in the centre of the top wing of a Fokker D.VII.



An unusual configuration showing two rear-view mirrors on a Pfalz D.IIIa. 



A more typical single mirror mounted centrally on the upper wing of another Pfalz D.IIIa: 



Close-Up of another mirror mounted on a Pfalz D.IIIa.



A poorer-quality image displaying another mirror mounted typically in the centre of the upper wing of a Pfalz D.IIIa.



Another example showing a slightly different mount - this mirror sits just above the top wing of this Pfalz D.IIIa.



A good view of a centrally-mounted Mirror on this Pfalz D.IIIa.





 

Oigee / Aldis Gunsights
Albatros D.Va,   Pfalz D.IIIa,   Fokker D.VII,   Fokker D.VII F,    Fokker Dr.I
One gunsight that was utilised by the Germans during the Great War was the Oigee tubular gunsight - which was designed after the British Aldis and French Le Chretien sights. Although not overly common to see, this gunsight was generally available to German pilots and can be seen pictured on several aircraft.  Less common still, but also seen, was the addition of a "Captured" Aldis sight on some German aircraft.    NOTE: I believe this mod should actually replace the Oigee reflector sight mods for German aircraft - more on that later in this post.

Photos of Oigee sights mounted to German Fighters (in spoiler below): 

Spoiler

The Oigee gunsight:




A tubular sight (Possibly an Aldis?) mounted on an Albatros D.Va.



A great view of an Oigee tubular sight mounted on a Pfalz D.IIIa. 



Another example of an Oigee sight mounted to an Albatros D.Va. 



An Oigee sight can be seen mounted on this Fokker D.VII. 



Less obviously visible, the end of the Oigee can be seen just forward of the cockpit on this Fokker D.VII.



A much clearer view of an Oigee sight, mounted in this Fokker D.VII.



An Oigee sight mounted on a Fokker Dr.I of Jasta Boelcke.



Another tubular gunsight (which looks like an Aldis rather than an Oigee) mounted in a Fokker D.VII.



The same aircraft from the other side. 



 

Windshield Modifications
Spad VII,   Spad XIII
One very popular field modification which has been well-photographed was the replacement of the factory-standard windshield of the Spad XIII and especially the Spad VII with non-standard windshields. One of the more common modifications was to replace the standard windshield with a Nieuport windshield. Some late Spad VIIs were also seen with Spad XIII windshields (another field mod). 

Pictures of windshield modifications (in spoiler below):
 

Spoiler

Details of different types of Spad VII windshield modifications. 




A Spad VII equipped with a Nieuport windshield. 



Another Nieuport windshield affixed to a Spad VII.



A close-up view of a Nieuport windshield mounted to a Spad VII. 



A Spad VII equipped with a SPAD XIII windshield. 




A Spad VII with the "wrapped" windshield removed - only the central panel remains. 




A Spad XIII equipped with a Nieuport windshield. 

Reflector Gunsights
Albatros D.Va,   Fokker D.VII,   Fokker D.VII F,   Fokker D.VIII,   Pfalz D.IIIa,   Pfalz D.XII

The Oigee reflector gunsights, available to all German scout aircraft in Flying Circus, saw extremely limited use in the Great War - only ever being operationally used in one instance (Operational testing on Fokker Dr.Is of Jasta 12). As far as I know, there is no reference to Fokker D.VIIs, Pfalz D.IIIs / D.XIIs or Fokker D.VIIIs ever being equipped with reflector sights. For this reason I believe these mods should not be available to the aircraft mentioned above, and instead should only be available to the Fokker Dr.I. 

Note: As mentioned above, I believe that a much more suitable mod for these aircraft would be the Aldis-style Oigee tubular gunsight. 

Over-wing Lewis Gun 

Spad VII,   Albatros D.Va

The mounting of a Lewis Gun over the top wing of a Spad VII, although experimented with by the R.F.C., was a practically unheard of modification in the Great War - as was the mounting of a Lewis Gun over the top wing of the Albatros D.Va. I personally feel that these modifications are far too 'niche' and shouldn't be readily available to every Spad VII / Albatros D.Va in Flying Circus. 


 

 

Edited October 17, 2021 by US93_Larner

[=IRFC=Gascan]

@RNAS10_Oliver had a suggestion a while ago for adding a transparent wing panel to the DH-4 similar to what the Sopwith Pup had in ROF. His thread should still be on the forum somewhere, complete with all the photos he provided.

 

If they're gonna do anything with gunsights, I'd love to see a re-work of the location of the Aldis for the Dolphin. Currently it is over the wing bar, while it was much more common to be under the wing bar in front line units. This would put it in a much more useful location for me while flying in VR. Right now, I either have a decent all-around view from the Dolphin cockpit but need to sit up uncomfortably high to use the gunsight, or I have a great view of the gunsight but am sitting too high and the wings reduce my downward visibility.

[No.23_Triggers]

1 hour ago, gascan said:

@RNAS10_Oliver had a suggestion a while ago for adding a transparent wing panel to the DH-4 similar to what the Sopwith Pup had in ROF. His thread should still be on the forum somewhere, complete with all the photos he provided.

 

If they're gonna do anything with gunsights, I'd love to see a re-work of the location of the Aldis for the Dolphin. Currently it is over the wing bar, while it was much more common to be under the wing bar in front line units. This would put it in a much more useful location for me while flying in VR. Right now, I either have a decent all-around view from the Dolphin cockpit but need to sit up uncomfortably high to use the gunsight, or I have a great view of the gunsight but am sitting too high and the wings reduce my downward visibility.

Good shout! I'll have a look for it and add it to the list. Dolphin Aldis is another one I want to add but IIRC they said before it was an engine limitation that it was mounted over the bar (err...?) as is the angle of the S.E.5a's Aldis. Same thing with the Oigee (which IIRC is telescopic, unlike Aldis or Chretien)....although IIRC these were all engine limitations in RoF. Hopefully IL2's engine will be able to handle those changes! 

For me the biggie on that list is mirrors - IDK if Rise of Flight was able to simulate them, but we know that IL2 can from the WW2 modules! It would be very cool to have that as a mod, as from photos we can see that it was a 'comfort' that a lot of Great War pilots wouldn't go without!

Edited October 17, 2021 by US93_Larner

[=IRFC=Gascan]

Yeah, I remember hearing that there is an "engine limitation" as well. I'm curious what it is. If you look at the Aldis position on the DH-4 when you take both Vickers guns, you can see the bracing wires inside the Aldis, so it looks to me like the Aldis still shows you the same stuff you'd see without a gun sight, but adds the ring for aiming. Wait a sec, I did some searching and I found a post from RoF where Jason says that they cannot add magnification to a gunsight, so that's probably the engine limitation. Don't see why that forces the Dolphin gunsight to be in that terrible position though...

[LukeFF]

5 hours ago, RNAS10_Mitchell said:

How about 4 seasons?  Not Frankie Vali. Winter, spring, fall, summer..

 

Those aren't aircraft mods. ?

[US41_Winslow]

I’d like to see the position of the Camel’s Aldis adjusted.  Currently it is too high and shouldn’t go above the windscreen while in reality there was a cut-out for the sight to pass through.  It would also be nice to have the option to have the starboard decking cut away and the windscreen replaced with a smaller, square one further forward.  Finally, there should be a Bentley or Le Rhône Camel in-game since Clerget Camels nearly disappeared from the western front as the RFC and RNAS converted as many squadrons as they could to the more reliable engines.

[No.23_Triggers]

I was thinking of adding engine mods to the list but that's a different beast - also I'd imagine that if 1C ever did add engine mods (do it do it do it do it do it do it do it) they'd stick with their "different planes" format...AKA "Spad VII 150hp" and "Spad VII 180hp" being different planes 

[J2_Bidu]

Mounted Lewis guns are an excentricity, but they have been implemented already. When you say they "shouldn't be readily available", what do you mean? Throeing it away is wasteful. And their usage can be locked. Ideal, but I'm not seeing it happen, would be forcing it to be rare somehow, like 1 plane per map.

[No.23_Triggers]

1 hour ago, J2_Bidu said:

Mounted Lewis guns are an excentricity, but they have been implemented already. When you say they "shouldn't be readily available", what do you mean? Throeing it away is wasteful. And their usage can be locked. Ideal, but I'm not seeing it happen, would be forcing it to be rare somehow, like 1 plane per map.

Ah. Thought you might show up when I mentioned those ?

Yeah, bit of a waste now that they're in, but the simple fact is that there were no SPAD VIIs or Albatroses flying around with Lewis guns mounted on their upper wing. It's really a nonsensical mod for those two planes. In the case of the Spad VII, the British trialled a VII with a Lewis Gun and deemed it totally unsuitable - hence why the British S.VII units didn't fit their Spads with them. I don't know the story about the Lewis mounted on the Alb, but I think it's a pretty ridiculous choice for a D.Va mod (same with the Becker on the D.II in RoF - wtf?). Honestly, I think most of the weapon mods in FC are dubious. 

What I mean by "Shouldn't be readily available" is simple - The Spad VII and D.Va shouldn't be able to equip over-wing Lewis guns, because they didn't have them in the real thing. ATM any VII / D.Va can be equipped with a Lewis Gun, unless the map-makers lock them (which I don't see happening anytime soon).

EDIT: But anyway - I'm more interested in proposed new mods tbh. 

Edited October 18, 2021 by US93_Larner

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Since in RoF weapon mods are payware,  they have to add something to sell and what would buyers wants,  weapons ?. ROF legacy. 

[J2_Bidu]

I tried to find references to usage of Lewis on DVa the other day. My current truth is that probably one single plane was ever thus equipped. But then many other things divert us from the combat truth, the least not being the fact that none of us has orders to carry out. We're war tourists.

[No.23_Triggers]

1 hour ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

Since in RoF weapon mods are payware,  they have to add something to sell and what would buyers wants,  weapons ?. ROF legacy. 

yeah, that's true - I'm really hoping Flying Circus evolves away from and surpasses RoF Legacy though, now that it's more established with more content on the way - modern FM's would be the place to start! 

[RNAS10_Oliver]

Here's the suggestion thread that I posted for the De Havilland. I've not got much in the way of historical details about the usage of the clear vision panels in units equipped with the De Havilland. But given the number of photo's from different units and times that show them would seem the modification was fairly common and not just something limited to a few trial machines. I've come across a few more photographs since also. Rather than clutter here posted them in that thread.

 

 

Might be nice if they could change the position of the Aldis modification on the De Havilland also. As seems a bit too far forward and high at the moment. Needing to lean far forward to see the outer ring of the sight required for deflection shooting.

 

 

Yeh alternate windscreens for the Camel would be good.

 

 

 

There are a number of images of Camels that have spinners added onto the propeller. I don't know whether these provided any benefit to them (and then to us) though other than aesthetics. Also seen images of cut-outs in the engine cowlings done to aid the cooling, though overheating is not an issue that we seem to have at the moment, if other warmer theatres were introduced they might then be an useful modification to have? For the Camel I've also seen mentioned (but no photographs) of other types of bombs being used including the 112 pounders.

 

Edited October 18, 2021 by RNAS10_Oliver

[LukeFF]

8 hours ago, US93_Larner said:

Yeah, bit of a waste now that they're in, but the simple fact is that there were no SPAD VIIs or Albatroses flying around with Lewis guns mounted on their upper wing. It's really a nonsensical mod for those two planes. In the case of the Spad VII, the British trialled a VII with a Lewis Gun and deemed it totally unsuitable - hence why the British S.VII units didn't fit their Spads with them. I don't know the story about the Lewis mounted on the Alb, but I think it's a pretty ridiculous choice for a D.Va mod (same with the Becker on the D.II in RoF - wtf?). Honestly, I think most of the weapon mods in FC are dubious. 

 

The original rationale for these mods was essentially, if there was photographic proof the mod existed, then that was enough reason to add it to the game. Operational usage was not a factor. And so yes, there is at least one photo out there of an Albatros D.II fitted with a Becker cannon. 

 

8 hours ago, US93_Larner said:

What I mean by "Shouldn't be readily available" is simple - The Spad VII and D.Va shouldn't be able to equip over-wing Lewis guns, because they didn't have them in the real thing. ATM any VII / D.Va can be equipped with a Lewis Gun, unless the map-makers lock them (which I don't see happening anytime soon).

 

Well, that's on the mission designers and not the developers to "fix." It's dead simple to restrict mods as need be - I've done that for a mountain of mods on the WWII side of career mode. 

[US103_Baer]

Mod Suggestion

Propellor options.

 

Obviously a number of props were available for most plane types. While likely not a choice for junior pilots is hard to imagine senior pilots and squadrons not getting their preferences. 

 

It could create an excellent tactical element with those who prefer climb and turn over top speeds choosing finer pitch versions etc. 

 

Of course it may be that the FMs aren't able to support plug n play like this. You'd think they should though. 

 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Mod propellers it would mean new FMs, so as ROF ports are not in  the same bed as original Il2 FMs ,they have to recalculate it , fine tune it and realise as new plane. They can hide this under the hood but yet another reason to make new FMs to Il2 standards but that will never happen realistically looking . 

New props are as mod in ww2 (4 blade prop modification for Typhoon I believe)

Edited October 19, 2021 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[J2_Bidu]

3 minutes ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

Mod propellers it would mean new FMs, so as ROF ports are not in  the same bed as original Il2 FMs ,they have to recalculate it , fine tune it and realise as new plane. They can hide this under the hood but yet another reason to make new FMs to Il2 standards but that never will happens realistically looking.

 

What do you mean? I thought FC was getting hit by WW2 model shrapnel (so to speak) because we were all in the same big boat...

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

40 minutes ago, J2_Bidu said:

 

What do you mean? I thought FC was getting hit by WW2 model shrapnel (so to speak) because we were all in the same big boat...

Yes in some ways but the porting of ROF FMs has it's own code separated in some ways what ww2 module uses.  This what I read in between lines from devs feedback. 

[J99_Sizzlorr]

23 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

The original rationale for these mods was essentially, if there was photographic proof the mod existed, then that was enough reason to add it to the game. Operational usage was not a factor. And so yes, there is at least one photo out there of an Albatros D.II fitted with a Becker cannon. 

 

 

Well, that's on the mission designers and not the developers to "fix." It's dead simple to restrict mods as need be - I've done that for a mountain of mods on the WWII side of career mode. 

I am under the impression that it is not that simple. If you want to restrict one mod you basically have to allow all the other mods. So to get rid of one weapon mod you have to configure all other planes to allow their mods and every combination with other mods. Now every mod has a number and they are listed nowhere. So you have to guess and try it out. It would be easier if you can just dissallow certain mods but that is not possible as far as I know.

Edited October 19, 2021 by J99_Sizzlorr

[LukeFF]

6 hours ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

I am under the imression that it is not that simple. If you want to restrict one mod you basically have to allow all the other mods. So to get rid of one weapon mod you have to configure all other planes to allow their mods and every combination with other mods. Now every mod has a number and they are listed nowhere. So you have to guess and try it out. It would be easier if you can just dissallow certain mods but that is not possible as far as I know.

 

Eh...no - it's not that difficult, and it is not hard for a mission designer to configure (Black Six does it all the time in his missions).

[J99_Sizzlorr]

9 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

Eh...no - it's not that difficult, and it is not hard for a mission designer to configure (Black Six does it all the time in his missions).

So how is it done then. As you have said you have done it for a mountain of ww2 mods, please enlighten me.

[LukeFF]

4 hours ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

So how is it done then. As you have said you have done it for a mountain of ww2 mods, please enlighten me.

 

How I do it is you generate a quick mission with the mod(s) you want to restrict, exit the game, open up the mission with a text editor, and look for the WMMask entry. That'll tell you which mods have been enabled. 

 

That's for career mode, but it should be similar for any sort of mission that you create.

Edited October 19, 2021 by LukeFF

[J99_Sizzlorr]

9 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

How I do it is you generate a quick mission with the mod(s) you want to restrict, exit the game, open up the mission with a text editor, and look for the WMMask entry. That'll tell you which mods have been enabled. 

 

...

 And then? Can I edit the file in the text editor and resave it? How do I go about these WMMASK entries? Simple delete them? 

[LukeFF]

3 hours ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

 And then? Can I edit the file in the text editor and resave it? How do I go about these WMMASK entries? Simple delete them? 

 

I am not an expert in how missions are created for multiplayer, but I'm sure there are people here that know how to do that.

[US41_Low]

Pretty cold to get sizzlors hopes up like that then say you actually have no clue.

[LukeFF]

2 hours ago, US93_Low said:

Pretty cold to get sizzlors hopes up like that then say you actually have no clue.

 

Except I did nothing of the sort. Aircraft mods have been blocked in SP and MP missions for ages. There's also a wealth of knowledge in the mission building forum if people actually have the will and desire to do something like this. 

[US41_Low]

On 10/19/2021 at 12:26 PM, LukeFF said:

 

Eh...no - it's not that difficult, and it is not hard for a mission designer to configure (Black Six does it all the time in his missions).

 

On 10/19/2021 at 12:37 PM, J99_Sizzlorr said:

So how is it done then. As you have said you have done it for a mountain of ww2 mods, please enlighten me.

 

18 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

I am not an expert in how missions are created for multiplayer, but I'm sure there are people here that know how to do that.

K

[No.23_Triggers]

Another one to add to the list: S.E.5a Removed Headrest





plenty more photos out there of this mod


 

[US103_Baer]

7 hours ago, US103_Larner said:

Another one to add to the list: S.E.5a Removed Headrest





plenty more photos out there of this mod


 

Interesting.  Weight saving?

[JGr2/J5_Hotlead]

Maybe for visibility? ?‍♂️ The trade off would be that the pilot's head would be far more vulnerable to being sniped from behind. 

[AndyJWest]

I'd be surprised if the headrests were expected to give significant protection against gunfire.

[Zooropa_Fly]

On 3/19/2022 at 9:08 PM, US103_Larner said:

 

 

I do belive he's had the over-wing removed as well