II/JG17_HerrMurf Posted July 12, 2014 Posted July 12, 2014 Like to see him try that vertical maneuver with a little enemy opposition in the air 1
II./JG27_Rich Posted July 12, 2014 Author Posted July 12, 2014 Like to see him try that vertical maneuver with a little enemy opposition in the air Yes clearing it is out of date as a fighter on fighter type but I still admire it so much because it's still pretty fast ....1300 mph, still very usefull and it's almost 60 years old. It looks awesome too..imho.
Tektolnes Posted July 12, 2014 Posted July 12, 2014 F86-F Sabre. Just have to wait a little bit more and it'll be out in DCS. Should be interesting to fly a fully detailed model.
A_S Posted July 12, 2014 Posted July 12, 2014 4th generation: F-16 Falcon & Su-27 Flanker ... two of the most "beautiful" designs. Both elegant in design, outstanding in the performance for time being. later generations: Dassault Rafale & EF 2000 Eurofighter .. as the "last" true "dogfighters" ********** Each generation has its own purpose and roots.I see it sometimes also from this perspective (my personal view):The EF and the Rafale were developements starting in times were the threat-considerations were different ( F-16s, F-18s ) and the eastern ones ( Mig-29s, Su-27s ), times where HOBS (High Off-Boresight) and other systems were not mature enough, thus the focus was to create more agile fighters (more considered about dogfights than in later generations), which could also fullfill multi-roles.In my personal opinion, those jets were the last "true" dogfighers looking at the developement of things (F-35, Pak T-50, J-20, UCAVs ..) ... and with more modern weapons technologies, with better systems, with the threats changing in history, a new generation and new doctrines were ahead and to come ...... 3 milestones later in aerial warfare (P-51, F-16 and F-22) ...... and the F-22 IS a different generation - if not even the beginning of it -, a different philosophy of aerial warfare, designed as dominance fighter - the big fat war-mashine so to speak, not realy a nimble cat ..more the tiger, who doesnt wrestle, but "slaps" the enemy with its paws - which role is to kill the enemies without getting close, thus its stealth abilities and its extreme high altitude performane for improved weapons-delivery. But everything comes with compromisses, which become clear if we compare general weights, wing-loadings and thrust-to-weight ratios of those generations (key features determining the dogfight abilities).Empty weight: F-22 43,430 lb / EF 24,600 lb (almost double)Wingloading: F-22 375 kg/m² / EF 312 kg/m² (thats 63kg/m² difference x 78.04m² wingearea F22 x G-load or 4916kg X each G pulled more)ThrustWeight: F-22 (1.26 with loaded weight & 50% fuel) - 1.29 (jettison stores 50% fuel) / EF 1.07 (100% fuel, 2 IRIS-T, 4 MBDA Meteor) - 1.14 (clean config 100% fuel) - 1.34 (jettison stores 50% fuel)Regardless of the manipulative power of fabricated media, math does not lie.To me it is not suprising at all to read reports of Rafales dominating the Raptor in one-vs-one mock-fights... or to read about the Tyhpoon-made "Raptor-Salad" in the same constelation.. or to see the F-18 Growler gun-killing the Raptor in the Lockheed vs Raytheon shootout (ok, THAT was suprising).Am i trying to say, that the EF is superior to the F-22 in WVR dogfights by all means? NO !, although the premises are clear.Lets look at history, where Zeros faced Hellcats or where F-4s faced Mig-17s.Defintily Zeros and Mig-17s were more "agile", but as history shows, it wasnt a grant for dominant victory, was it?Same as above, its a DACT constelation and as in every DACT situation - lets call them - "the cards" are known with the difference, that the same cards might havedifferent "strenght" for the enemy. To name few of those "cards": .. Climbrate, roll-rate, total weight, deceleration (bleed off ability), accelerations at diff. regimes, max speed, slowest speeds before stall, tightest radius, best sustained rates, cornervelocities, G-loads, pilot-fatigues ... and so on (to name a few).One "card" might perform better as the same card for the enemy, but maybe another card might not ... and this is where the pilot-skill matters and adds up to the equation.He has to play out the advantaged cards without falling into the regimes where the enemy dictates.He has to know those difference and apply them in the dynamics of a fight to his favour not allowing the enemy to play out his ACEs.He has to understand what situations are promising and which ones are not in comparision, from simple 2-cirlce turns to scissors of all kind and other unique situations ..etc, etc."The fight ends before it begins No pilot can do more than his jet allows Dominance dissolves into attitude.Superiority reveals intentions.Self-confident commitment is bondage.Majesty becomes weakness,Vulnerability becomes strength, However, it is spirit, choreograph of life and death" Feel free to disagree.Author: A.S
MiG21bisFishbedL Posted July 12, 2014 Posted July 12, 2014 To me it is not suprising at all to read reports of Rafales dominating the Raptor in one-vs-one mock-fights... or to read about the Tyhpoon-made "Raptor-Salad" in the same constelation.. or to see the F-18 Growler gun-killing the Raptor in the Lockheed vs Raytheon shootout (ok, THAT was suprising). Raptors wear a device that allows them to show up on radar during these war games. These results are nearly inapplicable to actual combat as it's always been staged within-visual-range engagements where both opponents see each other. The dogfight is a vestige of another time, an antiquated notion that's best seen as a last results given the advances of BVR abilities as well as strategy dictating that you don't even let your opponent off the ground to begin with.
sallee Posted July 12, 2014 Posted July 12, 2014 I think the question was, "what is your favourite...", not "what is the best". 3
76SQN-FatherTed Posted July 12, 2014 Posted July 12, 2014 Hands down the Lightning for me. I live near a (now defunct) RAF base. As a small Tedlet in the early Seventies I would be taken out there to watch the planes. The Lightnings were astonishing, both in the amount of noise they made and they way they could stand on their tails after take off to disappear heaven-wards. Such a distinctive planform, too. I remember being absolutely gutted when they were phased out and replaced with the utterly anaemic Jaguar.
III/JG53Frankyboy Posted July 12, 2014 Posted July 12, 2014 a green painted , germany based EE Lightning F.2A armed with 4 Adens
II./JG27_Rich Posted July 13, 2014 Author Posted July 13, 2014 (edited) Not my fav, you know what that is, bit the F5E and F11 Tiger both look like fighters. Give a kid a pencil and say draw a fighter and they' doc me up with something like those. The fishbed's popularity may be due to wing sweep, especially the empennage. It just looks fast. The Mig-21 is kind of unique because not only does it have a Delta wing but also has a horizontal stabilizer tail unlike a Mirage. No one mentioned that. Thought I would Edited July 13, 2014 by II./JG27_Rich
A_S Posted July 16, 2014 Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) Raptors wear a device that allows them to show up on radar during these war games. These results are nearly inapplicable to actual combat as it's always been staged within-visual-range engagements where both opponents see each other. The dogfight is a vestige of another time, an antiquated notion that's best seen as a last results given the advances of BVR abilities as well as strategy dictating that you don't even let your opponent off the ground to begin with. Optimistic point of view and probably based on the bias PR-sac they pull over once "heads". I know, that reality can be different. The dogfight is a vestige of another time, This "mistake" has been made before and the AirForces have learnt the lesson. I think the question was, "what is your favourite...", not "what is the best". Agree Edited July 16, 2014 by A-S
Cybermat47 Posted July 16, 2014 Posted July 16, 2014 Another jet I like is the MiG-15. Just such an iconic Korean War fighter, alongside the F-86, which I also like.
Gort Posted July 16, 2014 Posted July 16, 2014 Optimistic point of view and probably based on the bias PR-sac they pull over once "heads". I know, that reality can be different. This "mistake" has been made before and the AirForces have learnt the lesson. Agree How can your favorite be something that is so easy to shoot down? I could see it if you are a Brazilian Futbol fan....
Cybermat47 Posted July 16, 2014 Posted July 16, 2014 How can your favorite be something that is so easy to shoot down? You said it yourself. It's iconic and looks beautiful (or as I would put it, fabulous).
MiloMorai Posted July 16, 2014 Posted July 16, 2014 Always like this MiG. A little bit of old (15/17) and a little bit of new (21).
A_S Posted July 17, 2014 Posted July 17, 2014 How can your favorite be something that is so easy to shoot down? I could see it if you are a Brazilian Futbol fan.... LoL. Please enlighten us by sources how often the F-16, Su-27, EF2000 and Rafale was shot down
Volkoff Posted July 28, 2014 Posted July 28, 2014 (edited) I don' t have a single favorite. I really like the F-86, the Mig-17, Mig-21, Phantom F-4, and the Mirage III. None of these machines are competitive today, other than in the looks category, but I think they are super neat-o. Edited July 28, 2014 by =69.GIAP=MIKHA
kestrel79 Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 Always like this MiG. A little bit of old (15/17) and a little bit of new (21). What is this a Mig-19?
MiloMorai Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 Always like this MiG. A little bit of old (15/17) and a little bit of new (21). What is this a Mig-19? Yes a MiG-19.
siipperi Posted August 1, 2014 Posted August 1, 2014 Now that's a fast interceptor (and sexy). That's one plane where you stick turkey on the nose stick and roast it on high speed. Or that's what they did on Donal Duck.
[I./JG2]Commandz Posted August 1, 2014 Posted August 1, 2014 I will say my favorite fighter jet would be the F-16 *In the background I start up Falcon BMS 4.32
Volkoff Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 Thanks to the Belsimtek team, I get to sim fly one of my favorite jets, now. Here I am having fun with my sim F-86FSabre: https://vimeo.com/102893352 I will get to sim fly another one of my jet age favorites, when Leatherneck Simulations releases the MIg-21bis. MJ
sturmkraehe Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 (edited) No fighter but the most awesome plane ever built to this day and my all time favorite: Edited August 9, 2014 by sturmkraehe
6./ZG26_5tuka Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 No fighter but the most awesome plane ever built to this day and my all time favorite: Best looking 3,4 Mach plane in the world for sure The Blackbird is nice but I doubt you'd like to fly it. Reconnisance missions can easily get boring and pilots suffered great stress by pressure and heat when operating it. There once was a good mod for FsX which let my fly this over my home town with Mach 2
MarcoRossolini Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 Best looking 3,4 Mach plane in the world for sure The Blackbird is nice but I doubt you'd like to fly it. Reconnisance missions can easily get boring and pilots suffered great stress by pressure and heat when operating it. There once was a good mod for FsX which let my fly this over my home town with Mach 2 Pfft X-15 takes the plate there
sturmkraehe Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 Pfft X-15 takes the plate there Very nice plane too
sallee Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 Mirage III : Got to say, that does run the Lightning a close race.....Laverdure!
sturmkraehe Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 The day VEAO releases her... oh, what a day. OMG, a lot of fingerprints on the canopy... :O
Picchio Posted August 11, 2014 Posted August 11, 2014 OMG, a lot of fingerprints on the canopy... :O No one can resist. Not even you.
Finkeren Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 OMG, a lot of fingerprints on the canopy... :O https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xmAC9Qu908
0ddball Posted August 13, 2014 Posted August 13, 2014 (edited) I've always had a thing for the F-4 Phantom II On a side note, the FH-1, the first Phantom, seems kind of Forgotten: Edited August 13, 2014 by 0ddball
89- Posted August 16, 2014 Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) F16 Love its bubble canopy, talk about great view- no bars there! Edited August 16, 2014 by 89-
Corto Posted August 16, 2014 Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) no doubt: Edited August 16, 2014 by Corto
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