Developer Diary 296 - Discussion

[=IRFC=majorqc]

d520?

 

[=IRFC=majorqc]

On 10/15/2021 at 6:03 PM, Pict said:

 

It's not on my list at all. Simply because it has no targets in IL2 BOX and apart from that it doesn't even have map to fly from. It's even worse off than the Zero 

 

In saying that I really like both of them and put in lots of stick time with them in the old IL2 series.

i could see 163 on finnish for exemple into the late war set as a special aircraft that could spawn near depot or target to bomb to defend them could be pretty cool

[AEthelraedUnraed]

I'd be very surprised if it isn't the B-25 or 26:

- Both are regularly asked for.

- Both nicely fit both the Bodenplatte and Normandy maps.

- Both fit the new US Bomber Pilot crew that we were recently shown pictures of.

- Both give the Western allies another flyable medium bomber, right now it's only the Boston.

- Both are usable in a hypothetical upcoming Pacific or Mediterranean module.

- Both are relatively well-known aircraft, as opposed to rarities like the IAR, and hence can be expected to sell more units.

 

The statement that "research was done" doesn't really tell us much, since *any* aircraft requires some sort of research before you can build it. Detailed specs, building plans, photo's from a zillion different angles etc. Perhaps even the business side of research: what does it cost to make that specific collector plane, and how many do they expect to sell?

 

The B-25 has one big advantage over the B-26:

- The exterior 3D model and flight model are basically done; perhaps a bit of finetuning is needed but they don't have to start from zero.

 

On the other hand, that could also be a disadvantage, as a B-26 would add a whole new aircraft to the series.

 

I used to prefer the B-25, but that has changed in recent times and I think I'd rather have the B-26 right now. That said, I love both and it'd be a no-brainer for me to buy either.

Edited October 17, 2021 by AEthelraedUnraed

[Diggun]

13 minutes ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

I'd be very surprised if it isn't the B-25 or 26

I'd be very surprised if it was either of them. Both are coming to the sim already - albeit in ai form (with the desire to make at least the 25 flyable having been public knowledge for some time) - so neither would count as a 'new warbird'. I think we're in for a surprise. 

[Jeronimo83]

B25

[DD_Arthur]

29 minutes ago, Diggun said:

I'd be very surprised if it was either of them. Both are coming to the sim already - albeit in ai form (with the desire to make at least the 25 flyable having been public knowledge for some time) - so neither would count as a 'new warbird'. I think we're in for a surprise. 

 

Agree. It would be great to have another flyable twin but we’re talking about a significant amount of modelling and coding to produce an aircraft with power operated turrets.

As we’ve seen, the team are still flat out working to deliver all the content for BoN - which we know is subject to a business deadline.

 

 

[Bremspropeller]

Beaufighter

[Nocke]

Tschaika. Would work with Moscow, Stalingrad, and Kuban. (I think)

[DD_Arthur]

21 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

Beaufighter

 

Hmmm....outside possibility?

Have “lots of people” asked for a Beaufighter?

It would certainly be a lot more useable than a Zero plus modelling wise it has a single seat cockpit and a gunner/nav position with a single, hand operated MG.

On the other hand, to fit in the time frame for the Normandy and Bodenplatte maps it would really need torpedoes.

 

Question about Jason’s research;

He took a ten thousand mile round trip to the RAF museum at Hendon. I find it hard to believe he only had access to their Tempest......

 

[Beebop]

16 hours ago, meplanes1969 said:

Another anti jets as next collector plane video ?

 

I do this all the time without Wonder Woman!

[Diggun]

10 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

Tempest

Well no, he clearly got to jump into the typhoon too. And probably the mosquito. And they do have a beaufighter, I believe... 

[BlitzPig_EL]

Also the sole remaining Ki-84 on the planet, just sayin'.  ? 

 

A flyable US medium bomber would seem to be the logical choice.  The Luftwaffe have two of the bloody things, with a a near third coming, whilst the Allies only have a couple of light bombers.  I'm hoping for the 26, as the USAAF used it extensively

in the AOs we already have, and the B25 was only operated by the RAF in Northern Europe.

[ITAF_Rani]

1 hour ago, DD_Arthur said:

 

Hmmm....outside possibility?

Have “lots of people” asked for a Beaufighter?

It would certainly be a lot more useable than a Zero plus modelling wise it has a single seat cockpit and a gunner/nav position with a single, hand operated MG.

On the other hand, to fit in the time frame for the Normandy and Bodenplatte maps it would really need torpedoes.

 

Question about Jason’s research;

He took a ten thousand mile round trip to the RAF museum at Hendon. I find it hard to believe he only had access to their Tempest......

 

Beaufighter fit well in MTO theatre also...

[Vishnu]

Just reading up a little on the He177.    Wow!   didn’t know it was actually used on a mass bombing raid on the eastern front! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinkel_He_177_Greif
 

 

[Luftschiff]

I don't think there's a 1945 Stuka's chance in hell that it's the He 177 - but I just have to sneak in my agreement about its beauty. It might have been a death-trap but it looks wicked. I'd love to fly it one day. 

 

As for the next warbird, has anyone actually said it's a WW2 warbird?

I'd love for it to be a Fw-189, My money's on the Chaika, but there's a fair few ww1 planes that have been requested for a decade as well.

[Asgar]

9 minutes ago, Luftschiff said:

I don't think there's a 1945 Stuka's chance in hell that it's the He 177 - but I just have to sneak in my agreement about its beauty. It might have been a death-trap but it looks wicked. I'd love to fly it one day. 

 

As for the next warbird, has anyone actually said it's a WW2 warbird?

I'd love for it to be a Fw-189, My money's on the Chaika, but there's a fair few ww1 planes that have been requested for a decade as well.

Most of the issues with the 177 were pretty much solved with the A-5 model which would be the appropriate model for both air raids in the East and the „Mini Blitz“

 

And it really is a beautiful and interesting aircraft. I too would love to fly it in this great sim one day!

Edited October 17, 2021 by Asgar

[Pict]

56 minutes ago, Asgar said:

Most of the issues with the 177 were pretty much solved with the A-5 model which would be the appropriate model for both air raids in the East and the „Mini Blitz“

 

And it really is a beautiful and interesting aircraft. I too would love to fly it in this great sim one day!

 

It would be really nice surprise and a great addition as apart from the Normandy map we will have the appropriate map already for it as it was used in significant numbers for bombing Velikiye Luki in 1944.

 

=========================

 

This poor He-177 made such a nice Christmas present for these ADGB Typhoon pilots, they were too busy unwrapping it, to identifiy it  

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Gun camera film from this archive, starts at about 36:35

 

https://film.iwmcollections.org.uk/record/2249

Edited October 17, 2021 by Pict

[sevenless]

3 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

Question about Jason’s research;

He took a ten thousand mile round trip to the RAF museum at Hendon. I find it hard to believe he only had access to their Tempest......

 

Nah. This can only mean one thing: COOKIES! ?

 

 

Edited October 17, 2021 by sevenless

[AndyJWest]

A glazed-nose Mossie would certainly make a good collector plane.

[BlitzPig_EL]

[IRRE_Axurit]

Hmmm !! I can't wait to know what happens while crossing this monster !!!
Well done guys it's a great job !!!

 

 

[ww2fighter20]

4 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

Hmmm....outside possibility?

Have “lots of people” asked for a Beaufighter?

It would certainly be a lot more useable than a Zero plus modelling wise it has a single seat cockpit and a gunner/nav position with a single, hand operated MG.

On the other hand, to fit in the time frame for the Normandy and Bodenplatte maps it would really need torpedoes.

 

Question about Jason’s research;

He took a ten thousand mile round trip to the RAF museum at Hendon. I find it hard to believe he only had access to their Tempest......

The Beaufighter at RAF Hendon is the TF Mk.X which is the appropriate version for Normandy.

 

For anyone interested here is the page of the aircraft collections at RAF Hendon (London), the link is set to show WW2, quite alot of interesting aircraft.

https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/research/?s=&collection_collection=26&collection_museum=21&collection_location=&collection_period=19

[Asgar]

31 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

A glazed-nose Mossie would certainly make a good collector plane.

Or the Me 410 B:

step 1 make Me 410 A for BoN

step 2 replace the 7,92mm MGs with 13mm MGs

step 3 sell as Collector plane at full price

Step 4 profit ??

[Luger1969]

Beautiful clouds...A26 Invader

[migmadmarine]

Were it to be for Flying Circus, God knows there is a list of types that would be wonderful to see. Rolland D.VI or Salmon 2a2 anyone?

[Dagwoodyt]

1 hour ago, AndyJWest said:

A glazed-nose Mossie would certainly make a good collector plane.

Sad if the glazed nose version is not represented either here or in DCS.

[DBFlyguy]

Going off the new USAAF bomber crews being worked on...guessing it'll be either the B-25 or B-26 for the new warbird.  The B-25 was used by all three represented allied nations we currently have in the game so probably bigger chance its that one.  The B-26 makes more sense from a BoN and BoBP viewpoint though.  The allies still don't have a flyable medium bomber while the Germans have two... but I guess we'll actually see what it is, whenever they announce it.

[oc2209]

On 10/16/2021 at 2:02 PM, Asgar said:

Right… somehow the Germans knew about the B-29 before one was ever developed and „nazified“ and pushed it into service before even a single one was ever build! ?

 

I was thinking more along the lines of the He-177 looking like the misbegotten love child of a B-29 and a Stuka.

 

9 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

The statement that "research was done" doesn't really tell us much, since *any* aircraft requires some sort of research before you can build it. Detailed specs, building plans, photo's from a zillion different angles etc. Perhaps even the business side of research: what does it cost to make that specific collector plane, and how many do they expect to sell?

 

I think 'research' implies a plane that was previously considered undoable based on a lack of data, suddenly becoming doable with newfound data. The same in-game technical reasons a flyable B-25 wasn't made before would still apply now--I don't think the word 'research' applies to that situation. It could, but I doubt it.

[sevenless]

3 minutes ago, oc2209 said:

I think 'research' implies a plane that was previously considered undoable based on a lack of data, suddenly becoming doable with newfound data. The same in-game technical reasons a flyable B-25 wasn't made before would still apply now--I don't think the word 'research' applies to that situation. It could, but I doubt it.

 

And the term "new warbird" excludes, at least for me, the B25 also. I think we might be in for a little surprise here.

Edited October 17, 2021 by sevenless

[ATAG_SKUD]

 

So I'll speculate a bit here...

My heart would say Ju 188-A2 but my mind puts the money on Ilyushin Il-4. I don't think recon planes will get a nod until there is something for them to do in a strategic setting. I don't think (and I hope) its not a near fantasy aircraft that saw little or no action such as the Meteor etc. Making the B-26 flyable would be a great move but I agree it doesn't seem to fit the definition of a new plane that until now has suffered from a lack of data. The Ta-152 would be a great matchup against the Mk XIV Spit but only about 35 saw any action, plus there is a good bit of data available from German, British and US sources on this aircraft. He 177 would be great, numbers built were comparable to the Ju 188. The 188 might be easier to create due to the many shared components with the Ju 88. . The Ju 88 A-17 is a possibility too- that would fit the Normandy scenario pretty well and the definition of new plane lacking data and I'm sure would generate some excitement. Can't we just get them all?

But in terms of what I think the game needs it would be the Il-4, the B-26 and the Ju 188 and these should be on the near term priority list.

And, one more time for the record, I'd like to see these new bombers accompanied by more bomber friendly features such as tunable navigation frequencies, improved autopilots that let you climb while maintaining heading (mode 2 in the Ju 88), gunners that that can see farther than 500 meters and call out when they see a bogey, and longer distance target rendering. CoD Blitz has some great authentic navigation features that even permit blind approach. Just cut and paste the code-right?

 

skud

Edited October 18, 2021 by ATAG_SKUD
Confirming I know Britain and UK are the same thing

[Motherbrain]

An aircraft the comunity has been asking for for a long time?

 

 

?

Edited October 17, 2021 by Motherbrain

[AEthelraedUnraed]

3 hours ago, oc2209 said:

I think 'research' implies a plane that was previously considered undoable based on a lack of data, suddenly becoming doable with newfound data. The same in-game technical reasons a flyable B-25 wasn't made before would still apply now--I don't think the word 'research' applies to that situation. It could, but I doubt it.

2 hours ago, sevenless said:

And the term "new warbird" excludes, at least for me, the B25 also. I think we might be in for a little surprise here.

"Research" and "warbird" can be interpreted in multiple ways. The most important piece of information we have - and the only one unambiguous one - is that it's an aircraft that "many have asked for". Now, "many" of course is somewhat unspecific as well, but at least it implies that it's an aircraft that often comes up in discussions of this sort. Now, I can think of only a couple of aircraft that do so:

- Late-war "Wunderwaffe" aircraft. These only saw very limited service, and mostly off our current maps, so I think this is unlikely.

- Gloster Meteor. Also saw only a bit of action at the very end of the war. Unlikely.

- PTO aircraft. No chance until there's a PTO map.

Which leaves the most likely three:

- B-25 or 26.

- I-153. Interesting and fun aircraft, but it'll have 0 worth for the upcoming Normandy module. The Steam release of BoN will likely bring an influx of new people, and an American bomber that was used extensively at Normandy has a larger draw than an early-war Russian underdog whose most likely role is as cannonfodder.

 

If we weren't in the final months of the Normandy release cycle, my answer might've been different. But given that BoN is just around the corner, my money is still on the B-25 or 26.

 

EDIT: Oh, and there's also the (two!) new US bomber pilot models. Seems hardly worth the effort for just the A-20 (and perhaps the C-47? But that wouldn't explain two models).

Edited October 18, 2021 by AEthelraedUnraed

[sevenless]

4 minutes ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

If we weren't in the final months of the Normandy release cycle, my answer might've been different. But given that BoN is just around the corner, my money is still on the B-25 or 26.

 

Don´t get me wrong. It is not that I won´t like to have them as flyables. It is just that I can´t see the "new aircraft" term match with those two. My bet would be on Mustang IA or Meteor, both usable in BoN and BoBP. Anyways I guess we will learn before x-mas ?

[ww2fighter20]

The current ai B25D version has the lower and upper bendix turrets.

Later variant B25D's were quite different, they for example had an different turret layout (Lower bendix turret removed, 2 waistguns added, some had an tailturret added).

B25J was also used by the RAF around 09/1944 as the Mitchell III.

So there are atleast 2 different B25 variants that can be considered as new aircraft.

 

A20 and B26 had also different variants that were used over Normandy/Bodenplatte.

[Beebop]

3 minutes ago, ww2fighter20 said:

A20 and B26 had also different variants that were used over Normandy/Bodenplatte.

An A-20G would be a boon to all ground pounders.

[Jade_Monkey]

1 hour ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

If we weren't in the final months of the Normandy release cycle, my answer might've been different. But given that BoN is just around the corner, my money is still on the B-25 or 26.

 

To play devil's advocate: The Yak9 and Yak9T were released after Bodenplatte, it didnt make much sense to release ETO planes then either.

[oc2209]

1 hour ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

- Gloster Meteor. Also saw only a bit of action at the very end of the war. Unlikely.

 

 

This depends entirely on the mark. Overall, the Meteor 100% fits the Normandy time frame:

 

"The Meteor was initially used to counter the V-1 flying bomb threat. 616 Squadron Meteors saw action for the first time on 27 July 1944, when three aircraft were active over Kent. These were the first operational jet combat missions for the Meteor and for the Royal Air Force. After some problems, especially with jamming guns, the first two V1 "kills" were made on 4 August." (Wikipedia)

 

1 hour ago, sevenless said:

 

Don´t get me wrong. It is not that I won´t like to have them as flyables. It is just that I can´t see the "new aircraft" term match with those two. My bet would be on Mustang IA or Meteor, both usable in BoN and BoBP. Anyways I guess we will learn before x-mas ?

 

I'm putting my money on Meteor as well, after other probabilities are considered.

[JG4_Moltke1871]

Wish a flyable B25…

Wish a flyable B26….

?

I am pretty sure you are all wrong,

100% it will be a flyable buzz bomb!!

 

?

 

[Beebop]

10 minutes ago, JG4_Moltke1871 said:

I am pretty sure you are all wrong,

100% it will be a flyable buzz bomb!!

I've always liked short missions!

[Lusekofte]

9 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

A glazed-nose Mossie would certainly make a good collector plane.

It would make perfect sense. A few changes . Ideal  bomber 

26 minutes ago, Beebop said:

I've always liked short missions!

For me a flyable buzz bomb would make no difference. Other than different propulsion and speed