VR only, occacional VR and screen only players

[chiliwili69]

11 hours ago, BBAS_Tiki_Joe said:

My second observation.. I have a top-of-the line PC and headset, I've had roughly 40 people, friends and family spend time on my VR set. I've noticed a small number of those people just didn't enjoy the experience. I have a very unscientific theory that some people just can't see "VR."; I don't know if it is bad vision/needing glasses, our that their eyes/brain just don't process the images in away that gives off the immersion(Unable to experience 3d depth in VR). Common complaints I received from the 5 or so people that did not like it was that the experience was just blurry, or that it was "just like holding a monitor up to their face" and that they couldn't see what all the fuss was about. I honestly think that some people just can't see "it" for whatever reason.

 

Yes, along last 6 years of showing VR (from DK1) at home I learnt the same. VR is not for everybody. There is a fraction of people, I would say 15%, which are not made for VR.

But all kids (7 to 18 age) who tried, they liked. The complaint was from the 7-12 range, when I told them they have to wait until 12+ to play more.

8 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

What’s this then? 17 pages of tweaking…

 

Just brought by the quote. Usually don´t read the General discussion thread.

 

Just and observation, those 17 pages are not for tweaking VR. They are just a benchmark results compilation. For Monitor and VR. And the purpose of that benchmark is clearly described there, and useful for both groups (Monitor & VR).

On 10/15/2021 at 3:04 PM, Rapierarch said:

Rather new player here. Just out of curiosity what is your preferred display solution. 

 

BTW, about 22 months ago I conducted a poll to know the reasons as well:

 

8 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

A monitor and a 2080Ti don’t need a benchmark test in this game. Just max everything and go

 

There are people with panoramic monitors in 4K or multiple monitor, or higher monitor frequencies (90Hz, 120Hz, etc) who will also need a powerful CPU and GPU.

So, we made those tests to invest our hard earned money in the more optimum way. Or to diagnose why it is not performing as expected.

[chiliwili69]

7 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

I’m not sure about IL-2 but in DCS I don’t think there is any hardware which can run it “well”. Running it “well” IMO would mean being able to keep the constant refresh rate of the headset (80-90 fps), without continually running in reprojection mode, and doing that in all gameplay situations.

 

Well, this is a IL-2 forum, not a DCS forum. And the OP was just referring to IL-2, which is my only game (in VR of course). 

 

So, talking about IL-2, I am able to keep a constant refresh rate of 80fps with my Index in 99.9% of the time in any GB mission (SP player here). 

I never manipulated any config file, installed mods, or any other freaky tweak. I just put 150%SS in SteamVR, configured my graphics settings at High present, at most of other settings at high (excep mirrors) and just go to fly.

 

So, the Nirvana is achievable without tweaking. You just need an adequate PC in terms of CPU/RAM/GPU. 

[J2_Nedo]

2 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

So, the Nirvana is achievable without tweaking. You just need an adequate PC in terms of CPU/RAM/GPU. 

yes true, but we have a page here in the IL2 forum about tweaking gfx for VR.

(and beside IL2 i run DCS, MSFS2020 in VR only too)

[F19_Haddock]

16 hours ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

The last two years my close up vision has taken a nose dive, absolutely need reading glasses to do anything within two feet.  I find it easier, more comfortable and relaxing on the ole eyes in the VR set despite upgrading to ever larger monitors placed ever further away.

I share your pain... Since hitting 50 my reading vision has gone downhill. And you are right, VR is so much easier on the eyes!

[SharpeXB]

8 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

Just and observation, those 17 pages are not for tweaking VR. They are just a benchmark results compilation

Again, this is so complex it requires a doctorate in computer game graphics setting science. I couldn’t be bothered to read all of that and spend all week playing with settings. All you need to do in any game is turn on the FPS counter, make a few adjustments and go. I can’t fathom how anyone spends so much time on this. ?

[[CPT]Crunch]

20 hours ago, SirFlappy said:

 I have been following VR since it came out ,and if I upgrade my PC in the future I am very tempted to give it a go.

   My only real concern is (after getting a PC capable of running it smoothly)  the effect on my eyesight.

 I am 50 now (nearly!) and my eyesight has never been great,in fact they said I should wear glasses when I was a child,after having a few NHS glasses at the time I found they made my vision weaker so I stopped wearing them at about 12 years old....so far my eyesight has  not deteriorated any further and I can still read small print just fine!!

  So my worry is would prolonged VR use push eyestrain to the fore and make my eyes worse?

    I wonder if the above is testament to this........I suppose I must try a decent VR setup and try to gauge it before I take the plunge.............but it does seem to open up another world of immersion if motion sickness and or eye problems dont get in the way...as I said the PC power can be solved ,thats not the issue with me.

 PS- I dont know if Crunch got into VR 2 years ago or just months ago, so my thinking that VR has caused his eyestrain in the first place maybe false?

Doctor pushing statin's and me having allergens to that medication had some adverse impacts on my sight about two years ago.  That and about to hit sixty in a few weeks, so age is also a factor.  Than there was being forced to wear a freaking oxygen depriving face diaper on my ex-job while doing daily labor for over a year plus, which ultimately leads many including me to chronic hypertension, so I threw the masks away by retiring.  That's what really took a toll on the ole eyes.  Far vision is still excellent, never worn glasses, slight age related astigmatism, but not bad enough to require glasses.

 

Never take a statin, the risk of damages aren't worth any effects it might have on you.  Hands and feet are still numb, and cholesterol went back within limits long term without it any way, were never that far out of limits to start.  Stupid doctors pushing their garbage, was only on it for a short while but the damages are permanent.

 

Edited October 19, 2021 by [CPT]Crunch

[Charlo-VR]

5 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Again, this is so complex it requires a doctorate in computer game graphics setting science. I couldn’t be bothered to read all of that and spend all week playing with settings. All you need to do in any game is turn on the FPS counter, make a few adjustments and go. I can’t fathom how anyone spends so much time on this. ?

 

It's worth the experience, and my degrees are only in English and Education, so you can do it, too! ?

[Dagwoodyt]

Tough to believe folks fall for this same shtick performed over and over again     :-)

[SirFlappy]

5 hours ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

Doctor pushing statin's and me having allergens to that medication had some adverse impacts on my sight about two years ago.  That and about to hit sixty in a few weeks, so age is also a factor.  Than there was being forced to wear a freaking oxygen depriving face diaper on my ex-job while doing daily labor for over a year plus, which ultimately leads many including me to chronic hypertension, so I threw the masks away by retiring.  That's what really took a toll on the ole eyes.  Far vision is still excellent, never worn glasses, slight age related astigmatism, but not bad enough to require glasses.

 

Never take a statin, the risk of damages aren't worth any effects it might have on you.  Hands and feet are still numb, and cholesterol went back within limits long term without it any way, were never that far out of limits to start.  Stupid doctors pushing their garbage, was only on it for a short while but the damages are permanent.

 

 I am sorry to hear  thats what caused your eye problems.

  My concerns about VR causing eyestrain to myself maybe unwarranted,like I said I will have to give it a whirl on someone elses first to get an idea.

  I do wonder if GPs just have 3 remedies at hand ....after years in medical school and many exams!

  They are - Painkillers/Antibiotics/and Statins.

   I did hear something about doubts  surrounding statins on the radio a few weeks back if I recall ,and to think they were giving them out like popcorn the last few years.

  I am glad I work outside so I never had to wear a mask.....I agree breathing in your own waste gasses through a damp germ infested wet rag is really not going to help your health is it........the logic in mask wearing is baffling.

  They say throughout the history of medical science half of what is stated as facts about medicines and cures are found to be false (and possibly counter productive) every 50 years or so.

   That does make you speculate about what is in that category at present?

  Pleased that you enjoying your VR experience though,I will try to save a few quid and join you soon I hope.

Edited October 19, 2021 by SirFlappy

[chiliwili69]

19 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Again, this is so complex it requires a doctorate in computer game graphics setting science. I couldn’t be bothered to read all of that and spend all week playing with settings. All you need to do in any game is turn on the FPS counter, make a few adjustments and go. I can’t fathom how anyone spends so much time on this.

 

All those pages don´t need to be read. We make them to new people joining IL-2 or people who ask advice about a new PC. So, it is easier for them to pick the best for their purpose (monitor or VR).

 

If one day you would want to give VR a second opportunity, just let me know I could advice about the best headset/PC, and in just 30 minutes configuration you will be flying.

 

[ACG_Orb]

It's strange that some have such a visceral reaction to the subject of VR use whenever it's raised here.  I remember reading threads on the subject 12-18 months ago and the same name popped up hating on the tech.  Weird. 

 

VR isnt for everyone, simple as.  Generally those who experience it, love it.  You just have to realise its still a juvenile technology, in commercial development, not age - I first used VR LegendQuest in 1992!.  So compromises have to be made even with a 3090 and fast cpu.  Yes you have to take a hit on graphic fidelity and distance spotting, but the benefits in immersion and gunnery can not be replicated by flat screen.  People have complimented my shooting in the past, but 75% of it is down to VR depth perception rather than skill.

 

I think it's a sign of our 'i want it now' society that some aren't willing to put a bit of time into tweaking settings to find what that works.  I accept it's not everyone's cup of tea, but there's no lack of VR guys on this forum willing to advise in the relevant sub forum.  

 

Hopefully when this covid bullshit is done and if our respective govts haven't totally tanked their economies, this kit will become affordable for all.  I think the watershed will be PSVR2, if that is successful and brought to the masses... then demand for flying/driving sim VR will only increase. 

Edited October 20, 2021 by ACG_Orb

[AEthelraedUnraed]

3 hours ago, ACG_Orb said:

Hopefully when this covid bullshit is done and if our respective govts haven't totally tanked their economies, this kit will become affordable for all.  I think the watershed will be PSVR2, if that is successful and brought to the masses... then demand for flying/driving sim VR will only increase. 

The Oculus Quest 2 is already a huge step forward in that regard; a modern, high-res HMD for around €350 which is a lot more affordable than the more than €1000 that an HMD used to cost. For that reason, it's the headset that finally brought me to VR. It's also a stand-alone gaming system for those people interested in that sort of thing.

 

Didn't need to tweak a thing to get it to work with Windows or with IL2.

Edited October 20, 2021 by AEthelraedUnraed

[ACG_Orb]

There's Oculus.... and there's playstation. 

If you get those users on the VR train then the battle is won.  People forget that PSVR1 is the best selling model up to this point (over 5m units sold by end of 2019), so the demand is there if it can only be harnessed. 

[SharpeXB]

4 hours ago, ACG_Orb said:

People forget that PSVR1 is the best selling model up to this point (over 5m units sold by end of 2019), so the demand is there if it can only be harnessed.

Those 5 million PSVRs represent an attach rate of only 5%. One for every 20 PS4s sold. That’s not very good. Yet I suppose it’s good enough for Sony to make a PSVR2

8 hours ago, ACG_Orb said:

It's strange that some have such a visceral reaction to the subject of VR use whenever it's raised here.  I remember reading threads on the subject 12-18 months ago and the same name popped up hating on the tech.

It’s not “hating” to explain reasons for not using VR. That’s the subject of the thread here. I think VR is rather cool for other uses and I’ve used it professionally. But I don’t see any indication that’s it’s successful in the gaming arena or that it will ever perform well enough in PC sims.
What I do hate? It’s constantly screwing around with my hardware and I know enough from reading about it on these forums that’s what it entails. 

8 hours ago, ACG_Orb said:

It's strange that some have such a visceral reaction to the subject of VR use whenever it's raised here.  I remember reading threads on the subject 12-18 months ago and the same name popped up hating on the tech.

It’s not “hating” to explain reasons for not using VR. That’s the subject of the thread here. I think VR is rather cool for other uses and I’ve used it professionally. But I don’t see any indication that’s it’s successful in the gaming arena or that it will ever perform well enough in PC sims.
What I do hate? It’s constantly screwing around with my hardware and I know enough from reading about it on these forums that’s what it entails. 

[Dagwoodyt]

If I derive satisfaction from drawing attention to myself by professing to be "unconvinceable" I am not likely to desist. The likelihood is that my objections will become more outlandish as time goes by. We see this in politics so why not expect it in others venues?

Edited October 20, 2021 by Dagwoodyt

[SCG_Tzigy]

On 10/19/2021 at 6:07 AM, [CPT]Crunch said:

Doctor pushing statin's and me having allergens to that medication had some adverse impacts on my sight about two years ago.  That and about to hit sixty in a few weeks, so age is also a factor.  Than there was being forced to wear a freaking oxygen depriving face diaper on my ex-job while doing daily labor for over a year plus, which ultimately leads many including me to chronic hypertension, so I threw the masks away by retiring.  That's what really took a toll on the ole eyes.  Far vision is still excellent, never worn glasses, slight age related astigmatism, but not bad enough to require glasses.

 

Never take a statin, the risk of damages aren't worth any effects it might have on you.  Hands and feet are still numb, and cholesterol went back within limits long term without it any way, were never that far out of limits to start.  Stupid doctors pushing their garbage, was only on it for a short while but the damages are permanent.

 

I am genuinely very sorry that you had side effects from statin therapy and some persisting damage as well. However, for you to generalize, and give advice as such above, is really irresponsible. Just my $0.02

 

[ACG_Orb]

14 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Those 5 million PSVRs represent an attach rate of only 5%. One for every 20 PS4s sold. That’s not very good. Yet I suppose it’s good enough for Sony to make a PSVR2

It’s not “hating” to explain reasons for not using VR. That’s the subject of the thread here. I think VR is rather cool for other uses and I’ve used it professionally. But I don’t see any indication that’s it’s successful in the gaming arena or that it will ever perform well enough in PC sims.
What I do hate? It’s constantly screwing around with my hardware and I know enough from reading about it on these forums that’s what it entails. 

It’s not “hating” to explain reasons for not using VR. That’s the subject of the thread here. I think VR is rather cool for other uses and I’ve used it professionally. But I don’t see any indication that’s it’s successful in the gaming arena or that it will ever perform well enough in PC sims.
What I do hate? It’s constantly screwing around with my hardware and I know enough from reading about it on these forums that’s what it entails. 

You've been telling us for literally years now. Basically, people really don't care why you don't use VR as you bring nothing new to the discussion.

[F19_Haddock]

16 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

I don’t see any indication that’s it’s successful in the gaming arena or that it will ever perform well enough in PC sims.

PC sims are literally one of the best applications for VR 

[SharpeXB]

2 hours ago, F19_Haddock said:

PC sims are literally one of the best applications for VR 

that’s a fine opinion. Do you facts to support that? Again the only survey I’ve seen for VR usage in flight sims shows it stalled at 11-12% for as long as that question was asked, three years. Steam has a hardware survey as well. 
 

Flight and racing sims would appear to be the ideal games since you’re seated. But flight is a tiny niche of the gaming market. MSFS could change that so it will be interesting to see. So far the adoption curve is just flat 
But “best application for VR” so far isn’t gaming at all. Less than 2% of console and PC gamers have VR headsets. Facebook, the biggest player, is into VR for social media apps.

Edited October 21, 2021 by SharpeXB

[J2_NobiWan]

 

On 10/16/2021 at 6:17 PM, Dagwoodyt said:

Where cost of entry is a major barrier there will be folks who hold a grudge against any technological advancement. BoX has an excellent VR implementation. DCS on my rig seems to have too much of a haze effect and the clickable cockpits can create a "window out of focus" error requiring removal of the HMD to correct and seems to occur at the most inconvenient moment in a flight. Nevertheless it's worth all the inconvenience to fly the Mossie in VR! If dismissing VR makes folks feel good there's no harm done. 

Isn't there an option to limit the mouse cursor to the DCS window? I think this should prevent the "window out of focus" error.

[Rapierarch]

59 minutes ago, J2_NobiWan said:

Isn't there an option to limit the mouse cursor to the DCS window? I think this should prevent the "window out of focus" error.

There is a bug I guess since it does not work for me. Also the option for VR mirror on screen, I remove the tick on crop to rectangle but it still crops it to a rectangle which reduces the size of DCS on screen so it somehow moves outside. But at least with me the pointer remains in the same monitor so I can guess click and get the pointer back. It usually happens when you make a sudden head movement and mouse movement together. 

Edited October 21, 2021 by Rapierarch

[SharpeXB]

Ah this is cool. I’m not a hater, I’m just a hold-out. this level of quality gets my attention. I wonder why it hasn’t gone for foveated rendering like the new Sony apparently will?

https://varjo.com/products/aero/

 

But first things first, the games need to actually perform with this. Right now I don’t see that with these complex sims despite this thing being directed at flight sims specifically. 
 

[Dagwoodyt]

huff & puff

[F19_Haddock]

2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

But first things first, the games need to actually perform with this. Right now I don’t see that with these complex sims despite this thing being directed at flight sims specifically. 

 

You don't need to like VR. It's absolutely fine. It's not for everyone ? But don't say games like IL2 don't "perform" in VR because it's not true

[Dagwoodyt]

3 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Ah this is cool. I’m not a hater, I’m just a hold-out. this level of quality gets my attention. I wonder why it hasn’t gone for foveated rendering like the new Sony apparently will?

https://varjo.com/products/aero/

 

But first things first, the games need to actually perform with this. Right now I don’t see that with these complex sims despite this thing being directed at flight sims specifically. 
 

You have yet to explain why anyone should care what you think about VR. Why hijack this thread?

Have a poll of your own to ask how many forum members care what you think about VR.

[spreckair]

VR only for me.  I used to play flight sims exclusively in the Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator and Micropose European Air Wars days, but quit due to the limited immersion of a screen (at least for me), and decided to wait until VR was plausible, which was a long wait (again for me).  This last January I took the plunge into IL-2 and VR and I am so happy with it.  I just hope that the quality of VR keeps improving.

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, Dagwoodyt said:

You have yet to explain why anyone should care what you think about VR. Why hijack this thread?

It’s a public discussion forum. Everyone gets to post here. Including people with different opinions. 

2 hours ago, F19_Haddock said:

You don't need to like VR. It's absolutely fine.

Oh that could change… with a device like this

PS I didn’t say I don’t “like” VR I’m saying I don’t see it working well enough (yet?)?

Edited October 21, 2021 by SharpeXB

[Dagwoodyt]

6 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

It’s a public discussion forum. Everyone gets to post here. Including people with different opinions. 

Oh that could change… with a device like this

PS I didn’t say I don’t “like” VR I’m saying I don’t see it working well enough (yet?)?

And when you purchase a device that is “working well enough” the same number of people will likely seek your opinion as are requesting it now       ?

Edited October 22, 2021 by Dagwoodyt

[Badfish]

VR is the only way to go IMO and the devs are doing a great job supporting VR.

[Spook109]

Once I acclimated to VR and got my rig dialed-in (about an hour-long process of trying different settings), I became a convert. Beyond the profound sense of immersion VR brings, it's a significant competitive advantage. Using my 2D display and Trackir, now, feels like I'm fighting with one hand tied behind my back.

[savagebeest]

Victor Romeo ?

 

I like to make sure to add some light turbulence for that extra immersion. 

 

I will say this, take vr out of existence and you will definitely have a really lovely 2D experience.  They made this game with love. 

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

A non-vr flight sim? What an outrage LOL!!! I was interested in sims, but vr has turned that interest into an actual hobby for me.