One pass bomb runs...

[Knarley-Bob]

Used to be a guy had a chance to perhaps pick a target and do some strafing. Now it's dump yer bombs and run for home. What happened?

I'm (as well as other people) stuck on SP, so I don't have the options you 'multi player' folks have. Just asking.........

[Diggun]

Not sure I understand the question, old bean. What are you actually asking? 

[Knarley-Bob]

Old bean??

The question, why don't the attackers linger over the target to inflict more damage any more? I used to get a couple good passes in before I hit the ground.

[PatrickAWlson]

3 minutes ago, Knarley-Bob said:

Old bean??

The question, why don't the attackers linger over the target to inflict more damage any more? I used to get a couple good passes in before I hit the ground.

 

Recent change to keep AI from getting destroyed by AAA

[LukeFF]

5 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

Recent change to keep AI from getting destroyed by AAA

 

This, and also because the real guys didn't linger over the target any longer than absolutely necessary to drop their ordnance and GTFO of there. 

[Knarley-Bob]

So what is all the gun camera footage of strafing trains, vehichles, barges and what ever else they ran across? I had footage from my Dad's gun cameras when I was in Jr. High school. Strafing runs. After the bombs were dropped. That's what they did, that's what their job was. He told me that "One always made sure you had some ammo left for the trip home...you might need it."

But if you guys are worried about the............ 'AI', I guess I understand.

[PatrickAWlson]

It would be situational.  If they caught a bunch of trucks in the road with no real cover then maybe they would hang around a bit.  If it was anything that was heavily defensed like an airfield or a depot then it was one pass and done.  Orbiting a well defended target was suicide.  

 

The gun camera clips that you saw, were they really taken by a plane leisurely orbiting an area or were they passes on targets of opportunity?  American pilots were aggressive and absolutely would attack targets of opportunity, but that is much different from lingering over a well defended target.

[busdriver]

53 minutes ago, Knarley-Bob said:

I had footage from my Dad's gun cameras when I was in Jr. High school. Strafing runs. After the bombs were dropped. That's what they did, that's what their job was.

 

Sure in a "permissive" environment pilots could afford that flexibility. In BoX the fairly lethal AA has a habit of annihilating AI stooging around the target area. There is nothing stopping you from being a one person wrecking crew. I prefer this updated routine where the AI shows some semblance of self-preservation rather than the old routine of hanging around until they were shot up (or destroyed). 

 

[Knarley-Bob]

Leisurely orbiting whilst strafing ground targets? I keep forgetting this is just a.....game.

When they got to the target, they were told search for targets on your own, then attack in formation? Oops forgot again, they were on their own alright. They didn't all come in at once, they didn't all come in from the same direction, and they didn't all fly home in a happy formation. THAT is where the targets of opportunity came in. Sure they might split up into pairs, but they were 'hunting' on the way home. My Dad told me his ground crew stopped talking to him because he started 'Taking lots of hits', shortly there after he didn't make it back, for 3 months.

But whatever, like I said, it's just a game, time to look at it that way..........Protecting the 'AI'...that's a hoot?

Any way, Howdy to St. Paul from the Willmar area!!!!??

[357th_Esco]

Try multiplayer with comms. You’ll get more loiter time over a target with escorts. Jump on Discord or SRS and ask for cover. If you ever see me on, just ask. I’ll cover you as long as I can talk to you. This game is much more fun when you communicate and coordinate with others.

[ShamrockOneFive]

The one pass and done is definitely a better practice for the AI to do and also something that I've adopted at least in part from my time flying TAW missions and some of the more challenging attack runs online. I rarely get shot down on the first pass but the third and fourth pass increase the danger exponentially. I re-learned that one the hard way just the other night.

 

Reading plenty of reports from RAF pilots doing their own strafing runs and it was pretty much a one and done thing. Sticking around meant inviting a lot of flak and nobody wanted that.

Edited October 14, 2021 by ShamrockOneFive

[LukeFF]

11 minutes ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

Reading plenty of reports from RAF pilots doing their own strafing runs and it was pretty much a one and done thing. Sticking around meant inviting a lot of flak and nobody wanted that.

 

Absolutely - whether it was bombs or rockets, everyone dove in together, typically in trail formation, and released their ordnance one after the other. It didn't stop them from taking hits, but it definitely reduced the chance of it happening. That's part of the reason the Germans took such high losses during Bodenplatte - they made multiple strafing passes, which just gave the AA gunners more chances to hit them. 

[Gambit21]

Depended on what the mission was.

 

If it was close air support - then yes the aircraft (Jugs for instance) would stick around and make strafing passes as directed by the forward air controller. They didn’t just drop their bombs and leave if there was work to be done.

 

 

 

If it was hitting an airbase or something, then yeah drop and boogie.

Unless like busdriver said, the environment was more permissive. 

 

 

[[F.Circus]FrangibleCover]

I suspect your father was on the Armed Reconnaissance operations of the late war period, which was essentially a product of the defeat of the Luftwaffe where 'spare' Allied fighters would stooge about over random areas of Germany and mallet anything that looks vaguely militarily or economically valuable. Generally these targets couldn't be strongly defended, there were just too many of them and they were too spread out, so for strafing a random car on a road or a small barge you'd probably be relatively safe, especially if you took a single pass and then went looking for something else. The operations we tend to do in Il-2 are against larger, more defined and better defended targets against which strafing is harder and less valuable.

[Hoss]

Firm believer in One Pass Haul Ass.....................  but I'm usually on MP...............  but if I get shot down I can respawn and come back all the quicker... LOL

 

Cheers........... remember it's a game SP/MP doesn't matter..............  enjoy it, or hate it, for what it is and nothing else.....................

 

Hoss

Edited October 14, 2021 by 352nd_Hoss

[69TD_Hajo_Garlic]

19 hours ago, 352nd_Hoss said:

Firm believer in One Pass Haul Ass

I know that’s the way I should do it but I’m a 10 pass dumb ass ?

[DD_Crash]

Just one more pass, what could possibly go wrong? Ooooops.

[Yogiflight]

I am for two pass attacks. One on the way to the target, then turn round and the second pass on the way back to base.

[Sybreed]

Huh,  so what happens now exactly? I have a mission to destroy tanks, so my flight will drop their bombs on AA (because that's how "smart" the AI is) , strafe the tanks for zero effect and come back to base failing the mission completely?

 

(Haven't played fighter bombers in a while hence why I'm asking)

Edited October 15, 2021 by Sybreed

[LukeFF]

11 minutes ago, Sybreed said:

Huh,  so what happens now exactly? I have a mission to destroy tanks, so my flight will drop their bombs on AA (because that's how dumb the AI is) , strafe the tanks for zero effect and come back to base failing the mission completely?

 

(Haven't played fighter bombers in a while hence why I'm asking)

 

No, not hardly. They will drop their bombs on the convoy and then shortly afterward you'll see the on-screen message that the mission is completed. Same deal with vehicle convoy attacks as well. ?

[Sybreed]

2 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

No, not hardly. They will drop their bombs on the convoy and then shortly afterward you'll see the on-screen message that the mission is completed. Same deal with vehicle convoy attacks as well. ?

For real? So, they fixed it?? OK I'll have to test this this weekend. 

[Hoss]

2 hours ago, Hajo_Garlic said:

I know that’s the way I should do it but I’m a 10 pass dumb ass ?

LOL, you need an intervention, to address your target fixation addiction......

 

Hoss

[LukeFF]

43 minutes ago, Sybreed said:

For real? So, they fixed it?? OK I'll have to test this this weekend. 

 

Yes, it works really well now. ??

[Sybreed]

On 10/15/2021 at 1:14 PM, LukeFF said:

 

Yes, it works really well now. ??

hmm, in my first test, they dropped their bombs on AAA and went back... /facepalm.

 

Will test some more, in hope that was THE exception.

On 10/15/2021 at 1:14 PM, LukeFF said:

 

Yes, it works really well now. ??

 

Made a 2nd test, on a river crossing this time (first was railway junction attack).

 

Nope, nothing has changed, sorry to contradict you. Friendly AI will only focus AAA units and ignore the main objective. It's just that the game is now programmed to tell you "congrats you did it" even though if you did not do it. There was a tank column right next to 2 AA guns and the 5 bombs coming from my wingmen where dropped on the AA guns.  3 of the bombs were wasted as the guns were already destroyed before they blew up.

 

I would almost say it's worse than before... at least before they would try to strafe other stuff once the AAA were gone... wow this is disappointing. Playing a fighter bomber scenario like with the A5 is a complete waste of time.

Edited October 18, 2021 by Sybreed

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, Sybreed said:

hmm, in my first test, they dropped their bombs on AAA and went back... /facepalm.

 

Will test some more, in hope that was THE exception.

 

Made a 2nd test, on a river crossing this time (first was railway junction attack).

 

Nope, nothing has changed, sorry to contradict you. Friendly AI will only focus AAA units and ignore the main objective. It's just that the game is now programmed to tell you "congrats you did it" even though if you did not do it. There was a tank column right next to 2 AA guns and the 5 bombs coming from my wingmen where dropped on the AA guns.  3 of the bombs were wasted as the guns were already destroyed before they blew up.

 

I would almost say it's worse than before... at least before they would try to strafe other stuff once the AAA were gone... wow this is disappointing. Playing a fighter bomber scenario like with the A5 is a complete waste of time.

 

It's best to make reports like this in the technical issues section of the forum (with the mission file attached), so the team's mission designers can see that there are still problems with the AI targeting AAA instead of the main target.

[Sybreed]

56 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

It's best to make reports like this in the technical issues section of the forum (with the mission file attached), so the team's mission designers can see that there are still problems with the AI targeting AAA instead of the main target.

I did... plenty of time...