Negative G evasive action AI

[RedeyeStorm]

Hi all,

 

I have noticed that the AI very often uses a negative G manoeuvre as an evasive action. The AI banks (mostly to the left) and then pushes the stick forward. They are surprisingly hard to hit that way but it doesn’t strike me as very valid tactic.

 

Anyone else notice this behavior? And is it a valid tactic?

[AEthelraedUnraed]

At least some German aces used it.

[Strewth]

3 hours ago, [Pb]RedeyeStorm said:

Hi all,

 

I have noticed that the AI very often uses a negative G manoeuvre as an evasive action. The AI banks (mostly to the left) and then pushes the stick forward. They are surprisingly hard to hit that way but it doesn’t strike me as very valid tactic.

 

Anyone else notice this behavior? And is it a valid tactic?

Occasionally.

At one stage I chased a 109 that flew inverted and manoeuvred like normal, except he was upside down.
A shame I wasn't recording at the time.

[Luftschiff]

4 hours ago, [Pb]RedeyeStorm said:

They are surprisingly hard to hit that way but it doesn’t strike me as very valid tactic.

 

I mean, if it makes them hard to hit that sounds like a pretty valid tactic to me. I use it myself when an enemy is high speed and very close, as humans will react to the bank first, but not be prepared for the plane moving in the other direction, the extra second of confusion often force them to overshoot. 

The better question is if the frequency with which the AI does it is believable.

[enyak]

I've noticed this as well. What really surprised me is when it happened at low speed and the AI didn't stall but stayed coordinated while pulling away from me inverted. I have to say it left me with a feeling of doubt about the AI playing by the same rules, but I guess they are - just algorithmically 0.000001% below the limit.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Just think, if you took a Bf 109, a real one, and equipped it with a modern, computer augmented fly by wire control system that kept it in perfect trim no matter the power setting, or control input from the pilot.  Then add a pilot trained and fit as a modern jet combat pilot, then add modern radar to the plane, with a current gen HUD.

 

That's what you are facing when you engage the AI, with the exception that they will get lost in clouds.

 

Edited September 26, 2021 by BlitzPig_EL

[Varibraun]

On 9/26/2021 at 3:53 AM, [Pb]RedeyeStorm said:

Hi all,

 

I have noticed that the AI very often uses a negative G manoeuvre as an evasive action. The AI banks (mostly to the left) and then pushes the stick forward. They are surprisingly hard to hit that way but it doesn’t strike me as very valid tactic.

 

Anyone else notice this behavior? And is it a valid tactic?

 

On 9/26/2021 at 7:31 AM, AEthelraedUnraed said:

At least some German aces used it.

 

Just a more modern anecdotal note - This past weekend I was with an old friend I hadn't seen in many years.  In a younger life, he served as a USMC ECMO (electronic warfare officer flying back seat in the EA-6B).  We were talking about old times and the conversation somehow moved to ACM in an aircraft that would be a primary target for any opposing forces.  He told me in training for a worst case scenario, they would operate against F-18s (an F-18 would mimic different types of opposing forces aircraft and then eventually work up to "let's show you what the actual F-18 can do"). 

 

The idea was for the EA-6B to maneuver to prevent an easy firing solution for Sidewinders and Guns.  He told me it was a literal "G-hell" in the backseat because at that point their job was to keep their heads moving to track and call out the attacker's approach while his pilot then counted down to systematic evasive maneuver routines, the most effective involving negative Gs.  So, this was definitely in their training in how to survive a fighter attack, and I am sure at significantly higher speeds than we see in our WWII sim aircraft.

 

Surprisingly (at least to me), he said that in the debriefs with the F-18 pilots they were told they "survived" the simulated attacks more often than not (although he much preferred to rely on the F-18 CAP escort in the real thing!).  He also couldn't remember an F-18 ever getting a solid gun shot camera footage on them - at least in retelling it 30 years later...LOL!  Also, just in case you were wondering, there was a lot of "hand maneuvering" throughout the entire conversation.