sd.kfz. 10/5 flak 38 Tips

[NoelGallagher]

after got furustrated by hitting nothing for 2hours or more 

i figured out some helpful tips that will enahnce the chance of hitting planes 

with this i manage to shoot down more than 20plane in total in MP

and i see alot of people got furustrated as i was before

so let me share what i found

 

1.rely on tracer 

 

2.use crosshair instead of rings (it gives you more awareness of the surroundings and makes you trace the target better)

once you get in to the position where you can use corssahir then pres pgup key to move the head up(or whatever the key you assign to move the pilots head upwards)

 

3.use short burst(semi auto fire instead of using it as MG)

 

4.only engage the target inside of 800m from your pos(outside of that range the odds becomes too great to hit anything)

 

5.if you have to use the rings for deflection shot then (80ms for il-2 100ms for fighters usually works)

 

6.if the enemy plane coming towards you then aim at the cockpit instead of plane

no matter how tough the planes are it won't fly without the pilot who controls that

 

i wish you revenge all those il-2 bullies 

now no more with this flak truck hahahaha

Edited September 21, 2021 by NoelGallagher

[[KG]Destaex]

Just got this and a lot to learn. 

 

I also wish their was an in depth tutorial going through all the operational methods of using this vehicle. How to determine speed and distance without labels on etc
The anti-air sight seems very thick zoomed in. Hard to see the aircraft through it as it blocks them.

For ground targets is it intended that you remove the gun and sight armoured shields?
 

 

 

[LukeFF]

 

[[KG]Destaex]

Thanks Luke. Will take a look.

[ShampooX]

#6!!!!!!

 

I set my RALT+./; to 110mps because this is roughly the equivalent to the top speed of the IL2 which I think is around 420kph.

[[KG]Destaex]

I actually think it's more of a skill to use a flak gun than a fighter gun.

Is there a way to communicate with your battery commander or the guy with the height tool, Entfernungsmesser. I assume distance on the il2 labels is via a direct line over the ground and has no bearing on height?

 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-J08361%2C_Entfernungsmesser_einer_Vierlings-Flak.jpg

Edited October 24, 2021 by [KG]Destaex

[javelina]

thanks Luke, appreciate the video link. good stuff!

[jollyjack]

On 10/24/2021 at 6:08 AM, [KG]Destaex said:

 Entfernungsmesser. I assume distance on the il2 labels is via a direct line over the ground and has no bearing on height?

 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-J08361%2C_Entfernungsmesser_einer_Vierlings-Flak.jpg

 

Entfernungsmesser: He's got that figured out already millions of years ago ..

 

[javelina]

true, but he doesn't have a 20 round clip limit. 

[jollyjack]

No, but an unlimited lifetime teeth reloading system instead ..

[No_Face]

I made a custom mission in the editor to train myself. It took me 45 minutes to shoot down 25 planes. (with unlimited ammunition and without any indications).

I'm happy, shooting down 25 planes is already good but now I'd like to be able to estimate distances and speed better.

But I think it just takes practice. Try again and again.

I did the same mission again but this time with limited ammunition. My record is 5 planes shot down. Anyway, it's always nice to hit planes ^^.

On the other hand, as soon as the planes are a bit high, I really have trouble. The flak has a range of 2 000m but I think that 1 000m is the maximum to be really effective.

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, No_Face said:

On the other hand, as soon as the planes are a bit high, I really have trouble. The flak has a range of 2 000m but I think that 1 000m is the maximum to be really effective.

 

Yes, this is a big reason why the Germans (and the Allies, for that matter) moved away from 20 mm AA weapons and towards ones that fired 37 mm or 40 mm - the 20 mm shell just doesn't have that long range reach.

Edited October 31, 2021 by LukeFF

[Yogiflight]

21 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

Yes, this is a big reason why the Germans (and the Allies, for that matter) moved away from 20 mm AA weapons and towards ones that fired 37 mm or 40 mm - the 20 mm shell just doesn't have that long range reach.

I am not quite sure about the German side. They used plenty of 20mm Flakvierling til the end of the war. Their big advantage was lots of bullets in the air.

But you are right, that the 37mm guns had a much better shooting range and a less curved trajectory.

[[KG]Destaex]

On 11/1/2021 at 1:14 AM, No_Face said:

I made a custom mission in the editor to train myself. It took me 45 minutes to shoot down 25 planes. (with unlimited ammunition and without any indications).

I'm happy, shooting down 25 planes is already good but now I'd like to be able to estimate distances and speed better.

But I think it just takes practice. Try again and again.

I did the same mission again but this time with limited ammunition. My record is 5 planes shot down. Anyway, it's always nice to hit planes ^^.

On the other hand, as soon as the planes are a bit high, I really have trouble. The flak has a range of 2 000m but I think that 1 000m is the maximum to be really effective.

I had a go tonight on a vulching server - 20 enemy human aircraft right above me. I could not believe how accurate their bombing was. But they were tempests so I imagine they were rockets and heavy cannon. Not much of a chance when you have one 20mm vs two 20mm with rockets x 10 enemies. I got one. But I have not idea what I am doing. I had to remove the armour plate just to be able to see as the gunner. Honestly where is the commander with his range call outs. The air to air sight is shocking on the 20mm AA gun. The ring blots out the aircraft when it is in range making it hard to track things. I was lucky their were icons turned on in this server or I would have had no idea when I was in range.

[moustache]

in the end, the two AA trucks don't seem very useful, right? on sale at $ 15, isn't it really worth it?

[No_Face]

45 minutes ago, [KG]Destaex said:

I had a go tonight on a vulching server - 20 enemy human aircraft right above me.

I "reassure" you, I manage a little against the AI in my custom mission but against real players, with less obvious trajectories, it's another thing. Especially since you have to add the "stress" factor.

In your case, the simple fact of being targeted already puts pressure on you and you won't be serene to shoot because you know you only have a short time to kill it otherwise it will die.

20 minutes ago, moustache said:

in the end, the two AA trucks don't seem very useful, right? on sale at $ 15, isn't it really worth it?

I think expecting to become a real killer with AA is a mistake. You have to assume that there will be a lot of emptied magazines for few shot down planes, however, it will be rewarding.

In the same way that the JU-52 does not offer much in the end, the AA is a vehicle for pleasure rather than for efficiency. I find the Sd.kfz. 10/5 fun to play. It is also a pleasure to follow tanks to protect them from planes (or at least to try ^^'), it adds an element to the "combined armies" side.

 

Is it worth $15? I don't know, but if you're intrigued and hesitant to take the plunge, you can always wait for the sales.

[moustache]

2 minutes ago, No_Face said:

It is also a pleasure to follow tanks to protect them from planes (or at least to try ^^')

 

but, are we really useful in protecting tanks? I have the impression (from what I see on the servers) that even the planes are not scared, and that on the contrary, they just acquire one more target ...

[Thad]

Salutations,

 

Not being able to effectively employ a weapon does not negate the usefulness of said weapon platform necessarily. The more I had hands on use of weapons, while in the Marine Corps, the better I became at using them effectively. I became deadly with the M-16 for example. It takes repetitive practice and more practice. Fortunately, I enjoyed going to the rifle range.

 

With that in mind.. I will be presenting players with a AAA shooting range within my Tank Firing Ranges. The player will have unlimited ammo to practice shooting at aircraft and soft ground targets.

 

This should will help increase our AAA kill counts.

[No_Face]

Let's say you give the tanks a break. The plane will target you first (which will give the tanks time to take cover) ?

 

To answer your question very simply and honestly: No, AA is not effective in protecting tanks.
-You must quickly identify the enemy aircraft.
-You have to quickly identify the enemy plane (to make sure you don't make a friendly fire).
-You must quickly switch to the role of gunner, put your gun in the right direction and then aim.
-You must not panic to aim/adjust correctly.
-You usually have to put several shells in the plane to destroy it.
 

Generally, to do all this, you have 2-3 seconds x)
You have to expose yourself! Otherwise you won't have a line of fire.
 

In short, it's very difficult. The role of the AA is finally more a role of dissuasion than a real role of killer.

I don't lose hope to become, by dint of training, good enough to have the feeling to be useful ?.

 

So, can AA be useful?
Yes, because it is a fast off-road vehicle. It is a vehicle which is not afraid to expose itself (since we need a good visibility) and as it is an open vehicle, it is not necessarily easy to kill (Attention, I did not say that you were invincible ^^)

So, the AA becomes a good vehicle (I find) of recognition. It is also useful to capture a CP (incidentally, it is better that the AA is killed rather than a tank, so it is a noble sacrifice). You can play the hare, exposing yourself so that your tank mates, who have remained hidden, can open fire on the enemies they have spotted thanks to you.

I don't have any friends with the game but I think that in pair with a tank that attracts attention (because it is scary and robust) such as a tiger or better, a Ferdinand, there is a way to "trap" planes.

 

--------------------------------------

Dis toi que tu laisse du répit aux tanks. L'avion ennemi va te prendre pour cible (laissant le temps à tes alliés de se mettre à couvert).

Pour répondre très simplement et très honnêtement à ta question : Non, l'AA n'est pas efficace pour protéger les chars.
-Il faut rapidement repérer l'avion ennemi.
-Il faut rapidement identifier l'avion ennemi (pour s'assurer de ne pas faire de friendly fire).
-Il faut rapidement passer au rôle de gunner, mettre ton canon dans la bonne direction puis viser.
-Il ne faut pas paniquer pour viser/ajuster correctement.
-Il faut généralement mettre plusieurs obus dans l'avion pour le détruire.

 

Généralement, pour faire tout ça, t'as 2-3 secondes x)
Il faut que tu t'exposes ! Sinon tu n'aura pas de ligne de feu.

 

En résumé, c'est très difficile. Le rôle de l'AA est finalement plus un rôle de dissuasion qu'un vrai rôle de tueur.

Je ne perds pas espoir de devenir, à force d'entrainement, suffisamment bon pour avoir le sentiment d'être utile ^^.

 

Du coup, l'AA peut-elle est utile ?
Oui, car c'est un véhicule rapide en tout-terrain. C'est un véhicule qui n'a pas peur de s'exposer (puisque on a besoin d'une bonne visibilité) et comme c'est une véhicule ouvert, il n'est pas forcément simple à tuer (Attention hein, je n'ai pas dit que tu étais invincible ^^)

Donc, l'AA devient un bon véhicule (je trouve) de reconnaissance. Il est également utile pour capturer un CP (accessoirement, il vaut mieux que ce soit l'AA qui se fasse tuer plutôt qu'un tank, c'est donc un noble sacrifice). Tu peux faire le lièvre, t'exposer pour que tes coéquipiers en tanks, restés cachés ouvre le feu sur les ennemis qu'ils auront repéré grâce à toi.

Je n'ai pas d'ami ayant le jeu mais je pense qu'en binôme avec un tank qui attire l'attention (car il fait peur et ai robuste) tel qu'un tigre ou mieux, un Ferdinand, il y a moyen de "piéger" des avions.

 

[javelina]

6 hours ago, Thad said:

Salutations,

 

Not being able to effectively employ a weapon does not negate the usefulness of said weapon platform necessarily. The more I had hands on use of weapons, while in the Marine Corps, the better I became at using them effectively. I became deadly with the M-16 for example. It takes repetitive practice and more practice. Fortunately, I enjoyed going to the rifle range.

 

With that in mind.. I will be presenting players with a AAA shooting range within my Tank Firing Ranges. The player will have unlimited ammo to practice shooting at aircraft and soft ground targets.

 

This should will help increase our AAA kill counts.

thank you buddy!  And thank you for your service!  

 

( "This is my Rifle.  There are many like it but this one's mine.  My Rifle is my best friend. It is my life.  I must master it as I must master my life.  Without me, my Rifle is useless. Without my Rifle, I am useless...."   )

Edited November 5, 2021 by javelina

[Horizon123]

I have an issue with the gunner position. 

I use TrackIR for my head tracking, and I've been using it in game for years.  

When I switch in to the gunner position, and pick up the gun using 'T', it locks my head tracking, without ever going to the sight view.  I can only pan the head when the gun is down and locked.  

I see the video earlier in this link, where he is using the un-sighted view on the gunner's position and tracking head movements as the turret moves.  How is this possible?  No setting that I have tried, so far, has made a difference.  My gunner cannot look around, and that makes tracking targets cumbersome, as I have to continuously swap between the commander and the gunner just to look, and then move the gun.  

[JG1_Wittmann]

I got it awhile back.  Have spawned in it a handful of times on finnish.  The ring sight. Is not visually  represented very good especially when u zoom in and in this game u have to zoom in to id. I consider it a wasted purchase due to that. Looking fwd to the day the quad gets made. Or a scout car that's fast

[No_Face]

The ring does not bother me particularly when the plane is in the air and has a horizontal direction.
On the other hand, when it comes towards us, it becomes annoying, so I change my view and I take the sight adapted to ground targets.
If the enemy flies very low and horizontally, the iron part holding the ring completely hides the plane, this is the worst situation for aiming.

[Frinik22]

The principle of using mobile flak such as the flak Vierling was the concentration of fire. These MAA s were rarely used piecemeal but in groups so they could crossfire and put up an effective fire cover. During the Normandy campaign the Flak accounted for 80% of 2679 Allied aircrafts shot down. Many of these were shot down by Flak Vierling.

[Monostripezebra]

23 hours ago, Frinik22 said:

The principle of using mobile flak such as the flak Vierling was the concentration of fire. These MAA s were rarely used piecemeal but in groups so they could crossfire and put up an effective fire cover. During the Normandy campaign the Flak accounted for 80% of 2679 Allied aircrafts shot down. Many of these were shot down by Flak Vierling.

 I´ve said that many times before.. I think the combined arms gameplay would benefit from a bit more powerfull AAAs, ie more armored against splash damage and higher volume of fire so that few player vehicles on both sides are more high value (and a bit more difficult) targets.. I think a Wirbelwind and an M16 for the allies would be quite usefull additions.

[[KG]Destaex]

On 12/30/2021 at 8:29 AM, Monostripezebra said:

 I´ve said that many times before.. I think the combined arms gameplay would benefit from a bit more powerfull AAAs, ie more armored against splash damage and higher volume of fire so that few player vehicles on both sides are more high value (and a bit more difficult) targets.. I think a Wirbelwind and an M16 for the allies would be quite usefull additions.

Problem is these vehicles  you speak of are outside of the current Timeframe that tank crew is portraying and not finished putting out... for example the STuG and Churchill are in the Kursk timeframe. 

 

Essentially one 20mm Flak Half Track is also a tiny portion or the armament an actual fighter or bomber has that could be aimed at you. 

 

I think the answer rather is for the game multi server admins to allow more AI flak to cover the tanks. Including a script that allows players to assign 5-10 escorting flak Half Tracks or Trucks   Never going to happen! They do not want to get shot down at point blank while bombing at point blank. That would be too realistic.

Edited January 3, 2022 by [KG]Destaex

[No_Face]

Anyway, the real problem when you play AA in multiplayer, it is not to have difficulties or not to hit the enemy, it is already to have potential targets. ?

 

You can literally spend several hours scanning the sky without seeing a single plane passing within range either because they are flying too high or because they are fighting too far away from you and when you go in their direction and say to yourself "in 5 minutes I'll be in range", the 10 planes that were fighting will disperse, leaving you alone, in the middle of an empty field, empty as your soul is at this moment ?

 

?

 

[Monostripezebra]

On 1/3/2022 at 11:04 PM, [KG]Destaex said:

Problem is these vehicles  you speak of are outside of the current Timeframe that tank crew is portraying and not finished putting out... for example the STuG and Churchill are in the Kursk timeframe. 

 

Essentially one 20mm Flak Half Track is also a tiny portion or the armament an actual fighter or bomber has that could be aimed at you. 

 

I think the answer rather is for the game multi server admins to allow more AI flak to cover the tanks. Including a script that allows players to assign 5-10 escorting flak Half Tracks or Trucks   Never going to happen! They do not want to get shot down at point blank while bombing at point blank. That would be too realistic.

 

The issue here is a totally different one.. Il2 Airmodules span a wide time and scenario frames, while tank crew does not. Still, online it sees a ton of use and is used the best way possible as stand in in other timeframes because people like combined arms and it is a strongpoint of IL2.. So, now chosing vehicles as colectors vehicles that span a wide timeframe and scenarios as well as fitting the constraints of the game (such as player numbers, spotting mechanics etc.) is a wise way of living with these realities.. while going "ooh no!!! Only prokorovka tanks!!!" has no real MP-benefit (as only a fraction of MP maps/settings are not historicall prokorovka limited.) We have many very experienced people in the game and AI can always be abused.. and gamed. Player interactions makes things more interesting.

 

As I pointed out in the GAZ discussion, while Air > AAA IRL, this power discrepancy gets quite enlarged by some game engine limitations and game peculiarities.. so chosing historically fitting and accurate, but by design more powerfull vehicles fitting better to these restraints is just good gamedesign which benefits all sides, as the gameplay gets better. 

 

I mean historically you could also argue that the mayor part of german logistics MUST be horse carts (incl. horsedrawn AAA) but that just don´t work in the game..