DM locking controls

[JG1_Vonrd]

All DM threads have been locked. I believe that this is much too important to leave un-discussed. Let's see if this one stays up.

 

Recently Jason was on Flugpark's Discord and it was very refreshing to actually see concrete responses to this issue. Thank you Jason for stepping up and being honest about what the issues are about dealing with this (and many other issues brought up by the community).

 

The gist of what Jason said regarding the DM in FC is that his team is Extremely short handed due to Covid and other issues and that they can only focus on very limited things at this time. This is completely understandable. As I read it, they are currently focused on the fuel systems (drop tanks?) for WW2. Personally (and I currently fly WW2 primarily) this feature is way low on my wish list. Still, it's their game and business and maybe I'm missing why this is a priority over the DM in FC. Also, the release of the JU88 gunship and many other improvements are in the works and must be draining on their limited resources.

 

Perhaps I'm wrong but it seems that the most simple (temporary) fix to the DM in FC is to completely eliminate any controls damage throughout the entire game. In flying WW2, I very rarely am shot down by controls locking, it's mostly engine damage or PK... yes, sometimes controls are sluggish but I don't recall ever having locked controls. I don't think that any WW2 pilot would even notice the removal of controls damage, I'm sure that I wouldn't.

 

That brings up how much time the team would have to invest in order to eliminate controls damage across the board? In my mind it would just be a matter of deleting lines of code but, again, I have no expertise in the matter... it could be a massive undertaking.  Obviously, I don't know since I'm a complete Luddite in regards to coding but would really appreciate input from Jason or Han (or any other Dev) regarding this.

 

In the Discord Jason said: "Our problem is not customer retention, it’s finding new customers. Always have been. You guys are our best way to find them, but when they see constant negativity on our properties they don’t want to buy."

 

That statement would imply the importance of addressing the issue of the DM in FC... no? There are obviously numerous loyal customers (personally, look at all of the tags on my Avatar, I have purchased and pre-purchased everything since the beginning) who really want to recommend Flying Circus to any Noobs but can't in good conscience do so at this time. 

 

So... I have made a poll regarding this subject. Take a look.

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by JG1_Vonrd

[JGr2/J5_Hotlead]

Well said! ? 

[ZachariasX]

Thanks for telling us about Jasons statement. Personally, I should not want to tell Jason what his priorities are, as he is obviously very well aware of our little grievances. If he alwys had listened to us and dropped everything to carer any wish, I don‘t think he‘d sell as many products as he does now.

[JG1_Vonrd]

6 minutes ago, ZachariasX said:

Thanks for telling us about Jasons statement. Personally, I should not want to tell Jason what his priorities are, as he is obviously very well aware of our little grievances. If he alwys had listened to us and dropped everything to carer any wish, I don‘t think he‘d sell as many products as he does now.

Absolutely, I agree! I'm just thinking that there may be a simple temporary fix by eliminating the control damage across the board but, as I noted above, I don't know if it's that simple and am just hoping to get clarification from the Devs. Perhaps they have already thought of it... I just don't know...

Edited September 11, 2021 by JG1_Vonrd

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Let's think positively,  I'm sure we will have solutions to our concerns very soon. They are listening to our voices,  for years as Jason said. 

[US103_Baer]

I'm into any solution that provides the result we need. If temporary disable checks the Dev and Player boxes, great, I wouldn't miss it.

 

If reducing the RNGs 'chance of occurence' is doable by plane or game title,  then that's a possible option. 

Lowering FC planes by a factor of 50 would reduce likelihood of a jam from 50% to 1%.

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by US28_Baer

[JG1_Vonrd]

OK, Jason just posted in his Briefing room... THANK YOU JASON! Very much appreciated to have you clearly address these issues admit that mistakes were made... it's so refreshing!).

Second, complaints about the behavior of control surface mechanisms that become damaged in Flying Circus aircraft have grown over time. A couple things have happened here that warrant more explanation. We agree that the “jamming” is happening too much and the proper behavior of a control surface becoming loose instead of jammed when cables are severed is also wrong. This was baffling to us, because there is no such problem with WWII birds and these complaints did not seem to appear early in FC’s life cycle.

 

Players have told us that this issue came about when we last revised our ammo and damage system in a previous update which largely dealt with how ammo and materials interact. So, we assumed this was the case based on community comments, so any fix for this could only be solved when we did another general revision of our damage modeling. The issue was put in the que to be included in that future work. However, this is actually not the case.

 

The issue has actually been there since FC1 was first developed! Although we basically ported over the FMs for FC from ROF (with a few tweaks), our engine has been improved for WWII birds to allow for “limp” control surfaces and less frequent jamming of them. The problem is, we failed to update the WWI aircraft to include this new feature or adhere to the new limits of jamming frequency. Oops… to put it mildly. But why was it not so obvious when FC1 was first released? Another mystery lost to time, complexity of the product and a fast pace of development. This week, after I explained that this issue is more widespread than originally thought, one of our engineers decided to look at this during his vacation of all things and he discovered the cause. The engineering team is now working to correct it. However, this entire issue will take several weeks to fix and test. The good news is this is an issue that can be corrected without having to wait for a general revision of our damage modeling.

Edited September 11, 2021 by JG1_Vonrd

[Patricks]

That is fantastic news, bravo Jason! 

 

[JGr2/J5_Hotlead]

This is so refreshing! Thank you, Jason and thank you to whoever looked into these things on his vacation! We sincerely appreciate it. Before this morning, the DM issues in WW1 had been severely impacting my desire to play the game and were also dampening my enthusiasm for the upcoming FC products, since they too would be subject to it. I didn’t say much about it on the forums here because I figured most of what I wanted to say had already been said. And I didn’t want to drive people away from a product that, deep down, was still good despite this mega issue.
 

Jason, your announcement this morning changed the situation - big thanks again for this! ?? Now that the issue has been responded to with candor and the promise of it being fixed, I feel much more optimistic regarding FC. Because you and the team took the time to craft a transparent and thoughtful response concerning this, I don’t even mind the DM in FC right now anymore because I know it is going to be fixed. Hope puts a new color on everything. ?

Edited September 11, 2021 by JG1_Hotlead_J10

[unreasonable]

Good to hear - this was the single biggest problem IMHO. Thanks for Jason taking the time to investigate and fix and OP for the heads up. 

[No.23_Triggers]

Great news. Even with the weak wings, I'm sure FC's enjoyability factor will spike without the egregious control jamming! 

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

Happy to see this response.   Hopefully they can find the required talents to bring thier team up to full strength.  The increased attention to future testing is a very positive development also imo.

 

Sounds like they have a good plan to ensure the continued development of this amazing product,  and ensure customer loyalty in the process. 

 

Great news.

[NO.20_Krispy_Duck]

This is good to hear. If this works out, it will be big steps in the right direction for FC and BoX.

[J2_Trupobaw]

18 hours ago, JG1_Vonrd said:

 

This week, after I explained that this issue is more widespread than originally thought, one of our engineers decided to look at this during his vacation of all things and he discovered the cause.

#*******(&... As a customer, I'm very happy. But being myself a dev long overdue for vacation, this makes me cringe. My utmost respect and sympathies to engineer who did that.

[Guest deleted@83466]

Get back to work, Trupobaw.

[unreasonable]

4 hours ago, J2_Trupobaw said:

#*******(&... As a customer, I'm very happy. But being myself a dev long overdue for vacation, this makes me cringe. My utmost respect and sympathies to engineer who did that.

 

Real men do not take vacations. You have fruit to pick....

[J2_Trupobaw]

8 hours ago, SeaSerpent said:

Get back to work, Trupobaw.

It's Sunday. I get to test beta and catch up with that Polish campaign localisation...

Edited September 12, 2021 by J2_Trupobaw

[US41_Low]

My favorite part in the discord was when he blamed beta testers for the DM. 
 

I’ll believe these posts when the fixes arrive. Glad to finally get something marginally substantive.

[J2_Trupobaw]

He said that the DM went through the Beta testers. Which was true, for several reasons.

On 9/11/2021 at 1:10 PM, US93_Larner said:

Great news. Even with the weak wings, I'm sure FC's enjoyability factor will spike without the egregious control jamming! 

Unless even if you fly a Dolphin ? 

[Avimimus]

On 9/11/2021 at 1:23 AM, ZachariasX said:

Thanks for telling us about Jasons statement. Personally, I should not want to tell Jason what his priorities are, as he is obviously very well aware of our little grievances. If he alwys had listened to us and dropped everything to carer any wish, I don‘t think he‘d sell as many products as he does now.

 

Yeah, I actually think he probably listens a bit too much ...I know I certainly wouldn't want him listening to most of what I say (or even wistfully muse about and wish for)!

On 9/11/2021 at 8:56 PM, J2_Trupobaw said:

#*******(&... As a customer, I'm very happy. But being myself a dev long overdue for vacation, this makes me cringe. My utmost respect and sympathies to engineer who did that.

 

Yeah, I feel like we should discuss this and maybe find some way to show our thanks (tipping the devs, sending gifts)? But honestly, I'm not sure if it is healthy behaviour to encourage - I suppose it is their choice, but still I'm almost hesitant to show my gratitude... that said, I honestly feel a lot of respect for the love they put into this project/product line... and we have very little to not be happy about.

 

It'd be nice if we could find some ways to support them more.

[unreasonable]

Just now, Avimimus said:

 

Yeah, I actually think he probably listens a bit too much ...I know I certainly wouldn't want him listening to most of what I say (or even wistfully muse about and wish for)!

 

Yeah, I feel like we should discuss this and maybe find some way to show our thanks (tipping the devs, sending gifts)? But honestly, I'm not sure if it is healthy behaviour to encourage - I suppose it is their choice, but still I'm almost hesitant to show my gratitude... that said, I honestly feel a lot of respect for the love they put into this project/product line... and we have very little to not be happy about.

 

It'd be nice if we could find some ways to support them more.

 

Just buy their stuff if you like it, tell other people how interesting the game/sim is, make any criticism of any errors or omissions as constructive as possible, say thank you when they fix problems. That is how I support them - at least how I try to do so.  They are all grown ups, that should be enough  .  

[LukeFF]

3 hours ago, Avimimus said:

It'd be nice if we could find some ways to support them more.

 

Buying gift codes is a great way to do that. 

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

Kind words of praise when they get it right, and continued product loyalty should be sufficient.   If you feel the need to do more, write a favorable review somewhere.  Send a letter to the corporate office stating how happy you are..  Plenty of things you can do.

 

[US41_Low]

59 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

Buying gift codes is a great way to do that. 

LOL

 

edit: I have a great solution. Whenever FC2 and BoN are released on Steam, one of you could buy them for me! That’ll stick it to me and it negates my refusal to purchase their products. Problem solved.

Edited September 15, 2021 by US93_Low

[Guest deleted@83466]

Or even better, they could just give the gift to somebody else, who might be more appreciative.

[NO.20_W_M_Thomson]

9 hours ago, Avimimus said:

It'd be nice if we could find some ways to support them more.

Think they'll get lots of support when the fix the DM or at least the loss of controls bug. If you ask me which no one has but gonna say it any way. Fixing the controls and the 50. cal problem will be money in the bank. More pilots will come back and more youtubers will make more videos meaning more free advertising. So win win all around. We'll be happy they'll be happy.   

[[F.Circus]MoerasGrizzly]

What if I was already happy?

[NO.20_W_M_Thomson]

1 hour ago, [F.Circus]MoerasGrizzly said:

What if I was already happy?

Then you'll be even happier knowing we're all happy. 

[[F.Circus]MoerasGrizzly]

1 hour ago, NO.20_W_M_Thomson said:

Then you'll be even happier knowing we're all happy. 

Hell yes!