Roll on Neutral Stick

[bs.snipy]

I'm new to IL-2, only having jumped the last few weeks.  I'm enjoying the career mode, but one nagging thing I've noticed as the sorties have been getting longer is that the plane (for current career, I'm in the 109 G2) rolls left on neutral stick. 

 

Now, I know this is due to engine torque.  And I know the 109 doesn't have roll trim. 

 

But what I don't get... is wouldn't the pilots have been able to tell ground crew about this, and ground crew could have tightened a cable or two to attempt to neutralize the roll?  I highly doubt it would have been left as is, forever, as came from the factory floor.  Like a car's alignment, maintenance should have been able to tweak something, to reset, right? 

 

So... is there any way to add a constant (two constants) to joystick?  One vertical offset, and one horizontal offset, to mimic maintenance tightening up controls?  And then those constants are always applied to the stick, that way, after I dial it in, a neutral stick will counter the roll. 

 

Right now, I'm just setting "auto level" on the way over and flying manual on the return trip. 

[BlitzPig_EL]

The Rudder and ailerons on the real life Bf 109 had ground adjustable trim tabs.  Typically they were adjusted to give neutral attitude at normal cruising speed.

How fast are you going?  Have you tried slowing down a bit to see what happens?  Most simmers fly, and land, faster than their real life counterparts did.

Edited September 7, 2021 by BlitzPig_EL

[AndyJWest]

Yup, as BlitzPig says, adjusting a trim tab will only trim out roll at a specific airspeed/power setting. Bf 109 pilots just got used to holding in a little control input - mostly on the rudder, if the trim isn't too far off. They used to make jokes about having one leg longer than the other...

[bs.snipy]

I'm flying formation with my AI counterparts.  
 

On the longer bomber escort/ground attack escorts, rather than fly the crazy eight over the other planes, I set throttle about 55% or so,

maybe somewhere around 310 km/h and just fly trail.

 

On the non-escort sorties, I fly formation with the others, and it seems we're usually averaging somewhere around 450 km/h while enroute. 
 

But the AI is setting the speed, not me.

 

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

@bs.snipy It's impossible to fully trim an Aircraft for all Regimes and Altitudes with fixed trim Tabs. The happy Spot for the 109s seems to be 1.15ata/2300 and level Flight.

[bs.snipy]

19 hours ago, 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann said:

@bs.snipy It's impossible to fully trim an Aircraft for all Regimes and Altitudes with fixed trim Tabs. The happy Spot for the 109s seems to be 1.15ata/2300 and level Flight.

Yea, I think I've come up with an alternative.  It isn't real life, but I suppose neither is "auto level."

 

I'm going to use some dev boards to catch the input, and then some encoders to offset the outputs to give me the ability to trim any plane mechanically by simulating slight inputs.

 

 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

If plane has a trim you need to adjust it accordingly to speed,  climb,  dive. Grund crew can change some degree but in the air it's fluid and you need to do it. If plane do not have trims you need manual correction.  In the game you can find workarounds,  some software can hijack joystick inputs and change it in flight. 

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Alternative solution, fly the Me 262 and enjoy life without torque.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

7 hours ago, bs.snipy said:

Yea, I think I've come up with an alternative.  It isn't real life, but I suppose neither is "auto level."

 

I'm going to use some dev boards to catch the input, and then some encoders to offset the outputs to give me the ability to trim any plane mechanically by simulating slight inputs.

That sounds like using a 37mm cannon to kill a mosquito (the bug, not the aircraft). The obvious solution is to adjust your in-game torque (ATA/RPM) to the values suggested by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann. Or to fly aircraft that *do* have roll trim. Or to simply deal with it, this is a simulator after all so it includes the quirks that were present in the real-life aircraft.

 

Besides, even with perfect trim, an aircraft requires periodical inputs to stay on course. "Simulating" roll trim won't change anything there.

Edited September 10, 2021 by AEthelraedUnraed

[bs.snipy]

7 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

That sounds like using a 37mm cannon to kill a mosquito (the bug, not the aircraft). The obvious solution is to adjust your in-game torque (ATA/RPM) to the values suggested by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann. Or to fly aircraft that *do* have roll trim. Or to simply deal with it, this is a simulator after all so it includes the quirks that were present in the real-life aircraft.

 

Besides, even with perfect trim, an aircraft requires periodical inputs to stay on course. "Simulating" roll trim won't change anything there.

 

I'll let you take those routes.  I'm going to go with the offsets to allow me to trim it out. 

 

For me, this is a game.  Simulators are what are used when people plan on flying the real thing, and need to gain familiarity.  I don't ever plan on flying... anything.  So it's just a game, for me.  Holding back pressure on a stick is not enjoyable, so I'm going to just fake it, in an easy to adjust way, that will work for any plane, any altitude, any ata, any RPM and any quirk, so that it can be enjoyable, for myself. 

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

On 9/7/2021 at 5:35 PM, AndyJWest said:

Yup, as BlitzPig says, adjusting a trim tab will only trim out roll at a specific airspeed/power setting. Bf 109 pilots just got used to holding in a little control input - mostly on the rudder, if the trim isn't too far off. They used to make jokes about having one leg longer than the other...

 

 

Actually, the joke was that the only thing a Luftwaffe pilot needed to get their 109 qualification is a strong right leg.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

1 hour ago, bs.snipy said:

 

I'll let you take those routes.  I'm going to go with the offsets to allow me to trim it out. 

 

For me, this is a game.  Simulators are what are used when people plan on flying the real thing, and need to gain familiarity.  I don't ever plan on flying... anything.  So it's just a game, for me.  Holding back pressure on a stick is not enjoyable, so I'm going to just fake it, in an easy to adjust way, that will work for any plane, any altitude, any ata, any RPM and any quirk, so that it can be enjoyable, for myself. 

Wrong assumption,  those genre is not just a enjoyable ride,  you need to accept that and enjoy and appreciate that devs are simulating real airplanes behavior. It's change a lot in competitive multiplayer environment. If you are flying single player you can use simplification in realism menu and turn on auto rudder.  Enjoy your game as you like. 

[bs.snipy]

7 hours ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

you need to accept that

I've become too old to accept things that I can change.  And since modifying input is something I can do, I don't have to accept it.  I do, however appreciate their work.  But I showed that appreciation by giving them money.  Adoration I do not give as easily.

 

I'm sure your intention here isn't to insinuate that I must literally do something, or that some how my own assumption is incorrect, when it is my own assumption, and we can chalk this up to a language mismatch.

 

On one part, though, I very much agree:  we should all enjoy our application (game for some, simulator for others) as we like, or are able to consume.

 

 

 

 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

3 hours ago, bs.snipy said:

I've become too old to accept things that I can change.

I thought that when I grow older I would accept more things. 

Anyway I didn't want to insult you. Have nice day. 

Edited September 11, 2021 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[bs.snipy]

7 hours ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

I thought that when I grow older I would accept more things. 

Anyway I didn't want to insult you. Have nice day. 

 

For me, I accept more things I can't change, but accept fewer things I can change. 

 

I didn't take it as an insult, which is why I clarified.  I have no need to insult anyone here, especially those trying to be helpful.  Same to you.

[Avimimus]

...if anyone complains about an aircraft requiring small inputs or flying at a specific speed to trim-out...  Make them fly the Fokker Dr.I for a day... then they'll no longer notice