Level of cockpit interaction!

[addman]

IMHO clickable cockpits are over rated..

 

Way over rated to be frank!

 

Especially wrt WWI and WWII sims!

 

As for doing what needs to be done, with todays joysticks, throttles and rudders there is more than enough sliders and buttons to do what needs to be done!

 

As for immersion, having clickable cockpits adds nothing, we are already so limited in what we can do in a simulation that making it harder by using a mouse to move a handle or click a button makes it unrealistically harder..

 

In summary, all that effort to please a few of the users that like to sit on the runway and look around the cockpit and set things is just not worth the effort..

 

Maybe in the near future when HMDs and virtual gloves are the norm, than and only than would I be interested in seeing clickable cockpits implemented

 

I agree, there are definitely more important stuff to be concerned about in a good complete combat sim. I have to say though, I liked the cockpits in CloD, maybe the most of all things in that game but whilst in flight I rarely used the mouse for cockpit interaction, only on start-up basically. It's awesome but impractical and not worth the time and effort but of course I see why some people might feel the necessity to have it included, it's personal preference isn't it? like everything we discuss.

[GOAT-ACEOFACES]

I agree, there are definitely more important stuff to be concerned about in a good complete combat sim. I have to say though, I liked the cockpits in CloD, maybe the most of all things in that game but whilst in flight I rarely used the mouse for cockpit interaction, only on start-up basically. It's awesome but impractical and not worth the time and effort but of course I see why some people might feel the necessity to have it included, it's personal preference isn't it? like everything we discuss.

Agreed 100%

[56RAF_klem]

in other words we will never see what Oleg and Ilya wanted us to see instead we will get il2: 1946 v1.2 not il2: 2... 

 

This is the real tragedy of the whole business.

 

No point in arguing it here - and we shouldn't turn this into a clone of the banana forum - but CoD was beginning to look like Oleg's vision. It had some way to go but it is easy to see that the graphics were basically better than any I have seen so far in its true genre (I haven't tried DCS but its not a true combat sim - well not yet apparently). I guess the code was just too far off track to straighten it out.

 

No point in having a go at 777 either. They didn't undertake to deliver "SoW". They have undertaken to make a WWII version of RoF, possibly with improvements but nothing that will stand in the way of a quick production. The CoD graphics technology is a generation ahead of RoF/BoS.

 

Those of us who wanted a combat simulation of "SoW" vision, not simply a game, will have to wait and hope someone gets there one day.

[LoneRanger]

You can just tap F10 in CloD to disable the clickpit. But you just want this function not available to everyone, even who loves it.

 

No. The problem is, that you cannot simply press F10 to implement clickable cockpits.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Bricks

[4pg_inferno]

Those of us who wanted a combat simulation of "SoW" vision, not simply a game, will have to wait and hope someone gets there one day.

Basing on the current situation, It only can be happened after BOS succeed. We don't have more options so far. :D

[DD_bongodriver]

No. The problem is, that you cannot simply press F10 to implement clickable cockpits.

 

Thats right, you first have to make the clickable pit and then implement a hotkey to enable/disable the feature, you know...like having a choice or something.

[Capt_Hook]

I could care less about a 'clickable' cockpit... anything I had to touch with the mouse while flying in CLoD instantly irritated me enough I'd jump out of the sim and map it.  I don't have a Warthog / CH Quad combo to move a mouse around a screen clicking buttons.

 

Hearing we may lose those beautiful, shadow-haunted cockpits, though, is a real downer.  We should all hold off on judgement till we see what they come out with, but in many respects the cockpit IS the game.  It's what you experience the simulated world through.  I still play 1946 all the time as many of the folks I've flown with virtually throughout the years are still there, but it's always such a letdown seeing those ancient cockpits after flying over the channel in a spit or 109 in CLoD.

 

Here's hoping they can at least figure out how to keep most of the detail and the shadowing. 

Edited December 15, 2012 by NervousEnergy

[Sokol1]

in other words we will never see what Oleg and Ilya wanted us to see instead we will get il2: 1946 v1.2 not il2: 2...

Initially Oleg dont want click pit for SoW (CloD.eath).

Latter they add PARTIALLY clickable pit in CloD due lobby from some "vocal" in UBiZ00...

 

Sokol1

[=CHN=Crash]

If Oleg planned it at very beginning, they could make it better than that now in CloD, and saved more time they wasted in the turning back.

Edited December 15, 2012 by billeinstein

[=CHN=Crash]

Thats right, you first have to make the clickable pit and then implement a hotkey to enable/disable the feature, you know...like having a choice or something.

Just same as HDR in graphic for eaxmple. You should develop it and make a checkbox in the Options to enable/disable it.

But even I never play the game with HDR on, I will never say developing it is a waste of time and resources.

[Don]

I can live without a clickable cockpit with ease...

What I am afraid of is that they dumb down the general CEM  and overall cockpit functionality of the planes. I dont care if I can select/operate all instruments and levers with my mouse....the main thing for me is that there are the same amount of functioning controls.

Please dont go back to the old Il2 Style and just focus on mixture/pitch/throttle control with some better graphics with full of dead instruments and levers. Every lever/instrument, major and minor, should have a function, clickable or not. If there is a lever for pitot-heating, opening a side-window, various tank controls he has to be operable!

Thats my biggest concern by now

[76SQN-FatherTed]

It seems to me that you can have a sim with clickable cockpits, but which doesn't deliver a robust flying experience, or something a little simpler which doesn't break the immersion with weirdness.  Personally I'd settle for the latter over the former.

 

For those who want clickable cockpits, there already is a game they can play - CloD.  If the coming BoS doesn't surpass the standards of CloD or is even a step backwards, then don't buy it and carry on playing CloD.   The product you have is the one that you want, so don't get wound up about something different coming along.

Edited December 15, 2012 by FatherTed

[Lithgow_Panther]

each to there own opinion, i prefer to map everything to my hotas, which is my 'cockpit'

 

only time i ever use the clickable cockpit in CLOD is to turn the fuel on at startup.

 

Same.

[startrekmike]

I can live without a clickable cockpit with ease...

What I am afraid of is that they dumb down the general CEM  and overall cockpit functionality of the planes. I dont care if I can select/operate all instruments and levers with my mouse....the main thing for me is that there are the same amount of functioning controls.

Please dont go back to the old Il2 Style and just focus on mixture/pitch/throttle control with some better graphics with full of dead instruments and levers. Every lever/instrument, major and minor, should have a function, clickable or not. If there is a lever for pitot-heating, opening a side-window, various tank controls he has to be operable!

Thats my biggest concern by now

 

I would not worry about dead instruments, the engine that ROF uses allows for very functional cockpit instruments, every needle works as it should and the cockpits themselves have nice graphics and shadows.

 

  Granted, they are not as pretty as CloD but they are close and I imagine that they will only get better as they update the engine to suit the needs of the title.

 

  As far as controls, I imagine that they will give us radiator, mixture, prop pitch, oil radiator and even full bombsights because most of those things are already present in ROF, some are not but this is the kind of thing that can easily (as far as I know) be adapted into the existing engine.

 

  Not trying to pick sides, just stating what I know.

[71st_AH_Hooves]

You know there is this feature in RoF that actually uses the mouse. If you could right click and then click the option n the screen that said "fuel", "gunsight", "flaps". Etc. Would that be enough for you? Afterall your in the cockpit and clicking the feature.....lol

 

You know there is this feature in RoF that actually uses the mouse. If you could right click and then click the option n the screen that said "fuel", "gunsight", "flaps". Etc. Would that be enough for you? Afterall your in the cockpit and clicking the feature.....lol

[ACG_Dickie]

Before people rule out a need for clickables

 

 

and

 

 

 

 

[Krupi]

Nice.. but I prefer the feeling of pushing a button on my warthog.

[=IRFC=Huetz]

It's quite a shame that tech like this is still so little known that none of this will probably come to flight sims for quite some time, it's the same with Occulus Rift. Still, an interesting glance into what could one day be.

[Hunin]

The real question is : Will we have trim on a slider?

[=IRFC=Huetz]

The real question is : Will we have trim on a slider?

 

The next update to RoF which is due shortly may provide an aswer as we will get trim for one of the few planes that actually had it in WWI.

 

Until then, supported - reaching for buttons to trim is mildy annoying.

[DD_fruitbat]

The real question is : Will we have trim on a slider?

 

ahhh, RBJ, i wonder what he thinks of all of this......

[Hunin]

He might be watching you right now.... o_o

[DD_fruitbat]

what was the line, " take my trim on a slider out of my cold dead hands", lol.

[Hunin]

His avatar is haunting me even when it's not physically here...

[DD_fruitbat]

His avatar is haunting me even when it's not physically here...

 

:D

[ATAG_Slipstream]

:D

[DD_fruitbat]

arrrgggggggg!!!!!!!!

 

they were good times.

[Krupi]

 

LOL

[ATAG_Slipstream]

The average il2 player in all his glory!

FFS Krupi!

[DD_Crash]

Before people rule out a need for clickables

 

 

 I would like to give that a try mmmmmm

[LukeFF]

The next update to RoF which is due shortly may provide an aswer as we will get trim for one of the few planes that actually had it in WWI.

 

The upcoming trim feature for ROF will be for more than just one aircraft.

[6S.Manu]

No. The problem is, that you cannot simply press F10 to implement clickable cockpits.

[hiro]

Stop stirring the pot and read my other comments on the subject. We have difficult decisions to make about features and we won't make everyone happy with what we do, but we plan to make a quality product.

 

Jason

 

 

Ding ding ding  . . . Jason FTW 

 

Software development is managing compromises and balancing resources.

 

I'd rather have the team develop a FM worthy of an IL-2 that is a historically close as possible and worthy successor to the IL-2 series, or an intense and detailed FM, or 'Dude its like I'm there, rubs my eyes, is this for real!' graphics, or realistic sounds and sound efx . . . or have more extensive plane set with cockpits for them . . .. and no AI only eye candy aircraft you really want to fly but no cockpit made . . . 

 

A clickable cockpit is a nice to have but not a gotta have it category

 

Mouse ninja: RIght hand on stick. Right hand moves on mouse. Mouse moves to click, but in heat of combat (online) + mouse sensitivity on max, click on something else, instead of throttle, like rads open. Try to click back and fix, bullets impact, so mouse look to see where the enemy pilot is at, crap, he's on your six. Right Hand back on stick to move. Hand off stick, to click back whoops, triggered something else. Mental note, tone down sensitivity a notch or two. By the time mouse pilot gets everything back, he's got an oil leak and an engine fire and hand on the stick to maneuver the plane . . . 

 

vs normal pirate. RIght hand on stick, left hand adjust throttle. Left hand hits keyboard / switch on switch box panel (USB), or hits the keys for views to glance for SA. He's the one shooting down the clicker, and he's much faster. He can move instantly as his hand is always on the stick. 

 

 

To me it feels like clickable cockpits are a that's cool but non functional feature, but isn't necessary for immersion of a sim. 

 

It's like those wannabe racer guys that lower their car and put a fart pipe exhaust, and get a spiffy paint job and a loud sound system. They may dress to impress but when it comes to performance, the guys that look at ITB, set up the gear ratio, polish the piston / cylinder, get proper tires, shocks etc, really count. 

Edited December 16, 2012 by hiro

[Opitz]

Welcome back Tvrdi!

[SKG51_robtek]

Ding ding ding  . . . Jason FTW 

 

Software development is managing compromises and balancing resources.

 

I'd rather have the team develop a FM worthy of an IL-2 that is a historically close as possible and worthy successor to the IL-2 series, or an intense and detailed FM, or 'Dude its like I'm there, rubs my eyes, is this for real!' graphics, or realistic sounds and sound efx . . . or have more extensive plane set with cockpits for them . . .. and no AI only eye candy aircraft you really want to fly but no cockpit made . . . 

 

A clickable cockpit is a nice to have but not a gotta have it category

 

Mouse ninja: RIght hand on stick. Right hand moves on mouse. Mouse moves to click, but in heat of combat (online) + mouse sensitivity on max, click on something else, instead of throttle, like rads open. Try to click back and fix, bullets impact, so mouse look to see where the enemy pilot is at, crap, he's on your six. Right Hand back on stick to move. Hand off stick, to click back whoops, triggered something else. Mental note, tone down sensitivity a notch or two. By the time mouse pilot gets everything back, he's got an oil leak and an engine fire and hand on the stick to maneuver the plane . . . 

 

vs normal pirate. RIght hand on stick, left hand adjust throttle. Left hand hits keyboard / switch on switch box panel (USB), or hits the keys for views to glance for SA. He's the one shooting down the clicker, and he's much faster. He can move instantly as his hand is always on the stick. 

 

 

To me it feels like clickable cockpits are a that's cool but non functional feature, but isn't necessary for immersion of a sim. 

 

It's like those wannabe racer guys that lower their car and put a fart pipe exhaust, and get a spiffy paint job and a loud sound system. They may dress to impress but when it comes to performance, the guys that look at ITB, set up the gear ratio, polish the piston / cylinder, get proper tires, shocks etc, really count. 

That is a typical, polemic anti clickpit post! Btw, i know the clickpit wont be included.

The normal set-up would be tat all primary controls are mapped to hotas and easy-to-remember keys, but when one flies in a bomber, gets hit, and then tries to remember the obscure key-combo

to turn on the fuel transfer pump, switch it to the correct setting for emptying the damaged tank to save the gas for the flight home. feather the prop on the stricken engine, close oil- and water - rads

for that engine, turn the gyro heading indicator for the way home, sets the qnh for the diversion airbase, thats when a clickpit shines.

All the posts regarding the features are pointing towards a dumbed down arcade-sim, suitable for dogfights and preferable single engine planes.

I am afraid that the depth wont be high enough for the non-dogfighters, which get their thrill by making a successful bombrun agains the odds after a hour long flight, or sneaking at tree-top level in

the enemies back at dusk, flying by instruments to hit the target that is too well protected by fighters during the day.

A simulation is more than dogfight and a basic cem.

Imho, of course.

[Freycinet]

That some people think they have THE answer - valid for everybody - is a bit weird. Just because I like a clickpit and Fulanito doesn't won't make me try to impose my opinion on him. It is pretty pointless to try to argue experienced simmers over to your point of view... We all have different preferences and there is no "one-size-fits-all" option.

[6S.Manu]

I am afraid that the depth wont be high enough for the non-dogfighters, which get their thrill by making a successful bombrun agains the odds after a hour long flight, or sneaking at tree-top level in

the enemies back at dusk, flying by instruments to hit the target that is too well protected by fighters during the day.

My squad and many others did the things you say with modded 1946... and as you know there're no clickpits. They used heavy bombers in the "Big Week" campaign, dive bombers in the "Marianne" campaign and torpedo bombers in some Med campaigns... they're used to fly at least one hour to reach the targets, using instruments in the bombing run... also instruments that are not working in the vanilla 1946.

 

IMO you really should try a SEOW campaign playing with a squad. By experience I can disagree with your opinion.

 

I mapped most of the keys on my HOTAS, but still I remember many of the unmapped ones because I've binded them using logic... Shift+Key to increase a function, Ctrl+Key to decrease it, where Key is the first character of the function (G for gear so that I remember well manual gear operations even if I don't fly very old fighters). Alt+W is my lock wheel key. It's not difficult... of course when you are to fly a bomber you need at least a review of the keys... Probably in a clickpit you should always review control's positions.

Edited December 16, 2012 by 6SManu

[Cunctator]

Il2 46 lacks any in depth system/engine simulations that makes clickable cockpits desirable. Of course if you can't switch tanks or have separate oil or intercooler flap control you can live very well with just a keyboard and HOTAS.

 

Or has this changed with the mods?

[MineFewer]

Welcome back Tvrdi!

+1

 

Jason, do you wake up every day thinking "OMG what have I gotten myself into?"

 

If not, you will.  <_<

[FlatSpinMan]

Pease remember the rules if not quoting large tracts of others messages. If you want to reply with a quote, just copy the bit you mean.