Ideal landing speed

[WangoTango]

What is the ideal landing speed of aircraft ? Does it differs between aircraft types ? Currently practicing with the Spitfire. I tend to land safely, but I beat the crap out of my propellers and landing gear. I'm not going to be popular with the ground crew.

[oFlyingDutchman]

Each aircraft has its own flight characteristics. That depends of the weight of the bird, how big or small the wings are, aerodinamics and a few other stuff. If you are hitting the ground too hard, maybe you are actually coming too slow and losing altitude too quickly because of that. From experience, we tend to get slower since we are scared to just ramming into the ground if we are too fast. Also, flaps are your friends, they are there to help you as they give you more lift (have you ever realized that the aircraft tends to go nose up when you put your flaps down?).
Long text short, use flaps, keep an eye on your climb indicator too see if maybe you are losing altitude too fast and remember that you can always go around for a second landing.
If you are new to the game, try using the yaks or the 109's first since they require less engine management so you can focus more on the landing itself. 

[Nocke]

There are also the specs giving you the stall speed in landing configuration for each plane.

[BlitzPig_EL]

In my experience flying the IL2 series since 2001, most people land too fast, at least in the online environment.  You want a good safety margin above your aircraft's stall speed, but I see people constantly coming in way too hot, touching down halfway down the runway, and running out of room with the inevitable crash or landing gear failure, etc, at the end of it.  There are exceptions of course, the Pe2 for example has a pretty high stall speed and is very easy to "get behind" in the landing pattern and generally requires a more jet airliner like landing approach at a fairly high speed, power on, flown right down to the runway.

[Trooper117]

Spitfire pilot Mike Potter...

 

''The only challenges on landing are poor forward visibility and the need to be pretty comfortable with three-point landing technique. A gently curving approach to the runway threshold will solve the visibility problem. (And, by the way, all those World War II Spitfire veterans were taught that way and will expect to see it.) Over the fence at 90 knots and a last look speed of 80 knots and you will be well set up. Take a good look at the cross wind as you come short final and program your mind for how much side slip you want to feed in on the flare, because it is not easy to judge the drift once that long nose starts to come up. Flare to a tail low or three point attitude, remembering again how light and responsive the elevator is, and enjoy the arrival. It may jiggle around a bit on that ridiculously narrow undercarriage, but there is no mean streak in this airplane. Although the tail wheel is free castoring, the big rudder is very effective as long as you are reasonable fast with your feet.

Oh, and easy, very easy, on the brakes.

At this point it is worth a moment’s thought for the Spitfire’s arch rival in the sky – Messerschmitt’s Bf109. When our Spitfire pilot disengaged from a fight and headed home, his thoughts might easily turn to a beer with his buddies in the pilot’s mess. The 109 pilot, on the other hand, must have still been giving some serious thought to getting on the ground safely. While the Spit is such a pussycat, it is estimated that about one third of all 109’s built were destroyed in take off and landing accidents with major loss of life. It is reputed to be a very difficult airplane to land.

Taxi to the ramp (or to “dispersal” if you still have your head back to the 1940’s) but waste no time since, on a warm day, that glycol will heat up to the red line in a very short time. The shut down is normal, then pause for a moment to remind yourself what a privilege it is to fly one of the most beautiful and important aircraft ever designed.''

[Requiem]

14 hours ago, WangoTango said:

What is the ideal landing speed of aircraft ? Does it differs between aircraft types ? Currently practicing with the Spitfire. I tend to land safely, but I beat the crap out of my propellers and landing gear. I'm not going to be popular with the ground crew.

Generally speaking, your approach speed will be equal to about 1.3x the stalling speed, so it will vary between aircraft.

[von_Tom]

 

See Trooper's post.

 

In the Spit you'll know when you get it right because you'll come over the threshold and the aircraft will naturally settle into a 3 point attitude.  Hold it there and it'll sink.  Just make sure you don't settle at that attitude too high otherwise you'll thump down.

 

von Tom

[WangoTango]

Thanks for the informative answers guys.?

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

34 minutes ago, WangoTango said:

Thanks for the informative answers guys.?

This applies to our ingame Flying and you can use this method which for me yields 99% Success Rate for every Aircraft and a very precise and short Landing to impress your pals. Except for the Tails up after touchdown. On the Ingame Aircraft just keep the stick pulled all the Way to the belly until the Aircraft is stopped.

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

Edited September 3, 2021 by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann

[Zeev]

For me ideal landing speed is when the aircraft not spinning and drifting ?

[oc2209]

10 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

The 109 pilot, on the other hand, must have still been giving some serious thought to getting on the ground safely. While the Spit is such a pussycat, it is estimated that about one third of all 109’s built were destroyed in take off and landing accidents with major loss of life. It is reputed to be a very difficult airplane to land.

 

Were 10,000+ 109s really lost in accidents, or is this based on wartime estimates, and not postwar German records?

 

Does anyone have reliable total accident numbers on the 109? Ideally it'd be nice to see accident rates up to 1942, and compare the frequency to '43 and beyond. I would guess that the heavier the 109 got, the worse its ground handling became; couple that with lower pilot quality, and accident rates should shoot up beyond '43.

 

21 hours ago, WangoTango said:

What is the ideal landing speed of aircraft ?

 

Generally speaking***, if you don't want to commit each plane's ideal touchdown speed to memory, try to land just below 100 MPH (or KPH equivalent). To reduce your risk of stalling, don't drop below 85-90 MPH. Once you have more experience, you'll be more comfortable with higher and lower extremes, and landing at the specific speeds required/suggested for each individual plane.

 

All suggested landing speeds are given in the game, viewable on the pre-mission screen. The one that usually shows a map of where you'll be flying, etc.

 

***Edit: I'm referring to single-engine monoplanes here.

 

Edited September 3, 2021 by oc2209

[ITAF_Airone1989]

1 minute ago, oc2209 said:

Were 10,000+ 109s really lost in accidents, or is this based on wartime estimates, and not postwar German records?

You have to remember that since 1944 and especially after the 1 January '45 attack, Luftwaffe had really young and bad trained pilots.

Most of them had something like 15/18 hours of flight before to be sent to combat, so should not be a big surprise if they were bad at landings.

 

For the British was the same, during August/September '40 a lot of young pilots were sent to the action with less than 20 hours on a spit/hurri.

 

So, I guess was most a matter of experience...

"You can teach monkeys to fly better than that"

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

[AEthelraedUnraed]

22 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

The 109 pilot, on the other hand, must have still been giving some serious thought to getting on the ground safely. While the Spit is such a pussycat, it is estimated that about one third of all 109’s built were destroyed in take off and landing accidents with major loss of life. It is reputed to be a very difficult airplane to land.

 

12 hours ago, oc2209 said:

Were 10,000+ 109s really lost in accidents, or is this based on wartime estimates, and not postwar German records?

As I understand it, the high accident rate of the Bf-109 can be mostly attributed to the bad runway condition of many of the German airfields (especially on the eastern front), and later in the war indeed to poor pilot training, rather than bad landing characteristics. I found the following source: http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/articles/109myths/. Most pilots agree that the Bf-109 was easy to land, and that its biggest drawback was its nose-up attitude on final which gave very poor forward visibility, as well as causing inexperienced pilots to come in way too fast so that they could keep sight of the runway.

Edited September 4, 2021 by AEthelraedUnraed

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

 

[Rjel]

I find if I keep my speed up and my approach more toward the vertical, I can usually stick my landings with little to no bounce when contacting the runway. 

[PatrickAWlson]

On 9/2/2021 at 9:50 PM, WangoTango said:

What is the ideal landing speed of aircraft ? Does it differs between aircraft types ? Currently practicing with the Spitfire. I tend to land safely, but I beat the crap out of my propellers and landing gear. I'm not going to be popular with the ground crew.

 

A mistake that I made was decent landing speed but too high of a sink rate.  pretty sure that if you maintain the landing speed for too long your sink rate will be too great (i.e., you're falling out of the sky).  I solve that problem by applying a little more power just over the runway to arrest the sink rate and then back to idle and flare try to touch down. 

 

My next problem to solve is that I consistently underestimate distance to the runway and flare too high, resulting in a thump and a few bounces (another way to achieve excessive sink rate).

On 9/4/2021 at 7:28 AM, AEthelraedUnraed said:

Most pilots agree that the Bf-109 was easy to land, and that its biggest drawback was its nose-up attitude on final which gave very poor forward visibility, as well as causing inexperienced pilots to come in way too fast so that they could keep sight of the runway.

 

Something I learned from the Requiem videos: the curved approach.  Approach offset and then curve into the runway.  This keeps the runway insight from the side of the plane.

[Denum]

I find the planes to be pretty bouncy in iL-2, so when you set down you want to ensure you're as slow as possible. 

 

In the Spit on my down wind leg I'm usually at 150mph, I'll swing in for short final while dropping flaps and gear, as described you'll want to do a bit of curve to keep some visibility. I try to flare at 100mph with the throttle chopped and let her settle in for a 3pt landing. I immediately pull the flaps up and pump the brakes. Be aware of any rudder input as your brakes will be applied in a similar fashion. I keep pressure back on the stick until she's well settled then I'll start braking more aggressively.

 

 

Now if it's a fast landing where I'm trying to land, rearm and get back into the fight.

 

I'm coming straight at the strip, about a km out I'm full rudder, full flaps and skidding the aircraft bleeding as much speed as possible with the throttle chopped before landing gear deployment. Straighten out, plop her down and taxi to the refit area.

 

Griffon is done a touch faster as she's a bit on the thicc side. But more or less behaves the same way.

 

 

Here's some manuals if you're interested, I find they're fun to peek at.

 

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/spitfire-manuals.9050/

Edited September 7, 2021 by Denum

[danielprates]

On 9/2/2021 at 10:50 PM, WangoTango said:

I'm not going to be popular with the ground crew.

 

Might make you very popular with the Luftwaffe though. The fabled pilot who downed 35 spitfires.... flying for the RAF.

[BlitzPig_EL]

It'll work out OK, the Allies were vastly out producing the Axis powers, both in terms of planes, and in training new pilots.

[Jade_Monkey]

A bit late to the discussion but I put together this printout that has landing speeds for all planes in IL2

 

 

[=gRiJ=Roman-]

Get the pilot's notes for the cockpit. You have all the references.