Ground loop problem with LaGG-3 ser.29

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

@tednturanskiYou'll have to learn to live with the Fact that there is no lazy Way or "Do-It-All Trick" to Landing a Taildragger. It's all about reacting Quickly, it's a balancing Act.

[Dagwoodyt]

I would prefer to take "reacting quickly" out of the equation to the greatest extent possible.

[JimTM]

1 hour ago, Dagwoodyt said:

I would prefer to take "reacting quickly" out of the equation to the greatest extent possible.

 

Possible Solutions:

• A-20
• P-38
• P-39

 

Seriously though, there are certain taildraggers that are easier to land, such as the P-47, P-51, FW190, He-111, etc.

 

Edited August 31, 2021 by JimTM

[Dagwoodyt]

4 minutes ago, JimTM said:

 

Possible Solutions:

• A-20
• P-38
• P-39

 

Seriously though, there are certain taildraggers that are are easier to land, such as the P-47 or P-51.

 

 

Need to react “quickly” often follows from a mistake in the previous phase of the landing process. Then too a “quick” reaction is of value only to the extent that it facilitates a desirable outcome  ?

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

34 minutes ago, JimTM said:

 

Possible Solutions:

• A-20
• P-38
• P-39

 

Seriously though, there are certain taildraggers that are are easier to land, such as the P-47, P-51, FW190, He-111, etc.

 

Forgetting Me-262 and Arado.

[Props]

Certain taildraggers like the Spits can be difficult to get the hang of upon landing, but practice makes perfect. I found that a light touch on the rudders using minor corrections helps me a bunch. Also most of the time I use a cloud in the center of my windscreen to "aim" my plane on a straight path rather than the bubble, staying focused on that point till I come to a complete stop. Keep full back pressure (and full elevator trim) on the stick to keep that tailwheel firmly on the ground at least till your at a slow ground control speed for taxi, though on some models like the p-51 you push the stick forward to unlock the tailwheel for slow speed ground handling. And use the brakes sparingly as any uneven use of the rudder while braking can quickly escalate into a loop on many planes, especially if the tailwheel lifts off the ground during braking. Lot's of good input posted by the community here so I hope this all helps.  

[Dagwoodyt]

For normal landings the typical situation in which "quick" reactions are required is when refusing to abort an approach gone awry.

[JimTM]

2 hours ago, Props said:

...Keep full back pressure (and full elevator trim) on the stick to keep that tailwheel firmly on the ground at least till your at a slow ground control speed for taxi, though on some models like the p-51 you push the stick forward to unlock the tailwheel for slow speed ground handling....

 

Note that with the P-51 stick aft of neutral, the you can turn the tailwheel through 6 degrees left or right using the rudder alone. With the stick forward of neutral, the tailwheel is fully unlocked for tight turns using the brakes and/or rudder.

[oc2209]

On 8/31/2021 at 2:11 PM, JimTM said:

Seriously though, there are certain taildraggers that are easier to land, such as the P-47, P-51, FW190, He-111, etc.

 

The Yak family is very forgiving as well.

 

109s with a locked tailwheel are among the easiest planes to land; you can ride the brakes throughout most of the landing roll and not worry about looping. Without the tail locked, you have to be as careful as you would with a Spit IX.

 

To show the differing amount of rudder and brake dancing it takes, I made a locked versus unlocked recording. Here's the locked:

 

Spoiler

 

 

And here's the unlocked:

 

Spoiler

 

 

[grcurmudgeon]

Thanks to this thread my LaGG landings are a lot better now. I had to bind a wheel brakes key on to my joystick, I hold that and apply short fast rudder pulses as necessary to stay straight and slow down. I think I had read something about that before, but having toe brakes on my rudders made me think I did not need a separate brake button. Now that I do, much easier to land.

[Props]

20 hours ago, JimTM said:

 

Note that with the P-51 stick aft of neutral, the you can turn the tailwheel through 6 degrees left or right using the rudder alone. With the stick forward of neutral, the tailwheel is fully unlocked for tight turns using the brakes and/or rudder.

Thanks JimTM, as I neglected to mention this, though I am aware of it, use it as noted, and it is pertinent to good ground handling. oc2099's note on locking the tailwheel is also good input - I used it extensively back in the good old days when flying from carriers in IL2 '46 and always in the planes where it is available. And the go-around is always preferable to a botched landing as Dagwoodyt pointed out!

[tednturanski]

OK.   And thanks again to all.  You've written a course for me on how to land a LaGG without groundlooping.  I've been practicing every day since starting this thread, putting all of your suggestions together.  At first I could only have a non-groundloop landing about 20% of the time.  Currently I'm up to about 80% non-groundloop landings.  The timing of when to start applying brakes and the new knowledge about how the brake system works has helped.  The turn indicator in addition to watching out the window has also been helpful. Also the experience and practice applying all that you wrote and displayed with your videos has helped greatly.  IL-2 has been very important to me because it allows me to fly airplanes that I would otherwise never have the opportunity to fly. I am willing to spend the extra time to learn how to deal with the rudder response quirks of the sim because the sim is just so good! 

[oc2209]

1 hour ago, tednturanski said:

I've been practicing every day since starting this thread, putting all of your suggestions together.  At first I could only have a non-groundloop landing about 20% of the time.  Currently I'm up to about 80% non-groundloop landings.

 

Glad to hear it!

 

There are many planes you'll find easier to land than the LaGG, and a few that are more difficult. But the good news is, the more you fly, the more you learn. The cumulative knowledge gained from adapting to different types will ultimately make you a solid pilot.