Would soft car tires on the moon last as long as hard tires on earth?

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Given that we want to make a Car grip on the moon as it would on earth (stopping distance, lateral gs) and that the traction of a tire boils down to: Friction Coefficient*Downard Force=Traction if we took a Normal Car with Eco Tires and put it on the Moon with F1 grade Soft, Sticky Tires of the exact same Size it should grip like it does on Earth.
 

But do these Tires then also last like Eco Tires on Earth?

[AndyJWest]

I doubt that any tire mode from synthetic or natural rubber would last long on the Moon, given the high-intensity solar radiation, changes in temperature etc it would be exposed to.

[ZachariasX]

3 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann said:

But do these Tires then also last like Eco Tires on Earth?

Given the surface temperature is anywhere +127°C to -232°C, I wouldn't expect tires to last long. Also, they probably don't like direct sunlight. I wouldn't give warranty on tires for lunar driving.

[Bremspropeller]

29 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

I doubt that any tire mode from synthetic or natural rubber would last long on the Moon, given the high-intensity solar radiation, changes in temperature etc it would be exposed to.

 

The regolith is supposed to be quite sharp (no erosion to soften the edges) and hence will also slowly but surely slice the tyres to pieces.

[AndyJWest]

Even Pirelli don't think that rubber tires are much use in such environments. https://www.pirelli.com/global/en-ww/life/why-rubber-tyres-don-t-work-on-mars

[RAY-EU]

 

 

On 8/25/2021 at 7:45 PM, ZachariasX said:

On 8/25/2021 at 7:39 PM, 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann said:

 

Given the surface temperature is anywhere +127°C to -232°C, I wouldn't expect tires to last long. Also, they probably don't like direct sunlight. I wouldn't give warranty on tires for lunar driving.

& Solar radiation= 100.000 Megaelectronvolts = +- 800 Volts documented by Space cientific magazines of 2015-21 since Chang’e expeditions .

 

Edited August 27, 2021 by RAY-EU
Van Allen belts

[AndyJWest]

14 minutes ago, raaaid said:

...I have to university degrees...

 

?

 

Yeah, I know, not your first language. Funny though...

 

Back on topic, I'm not sure you should apply the 'laws of friction' too literally in the context we are discussing. From what I remember from that excellent simulator of variable-gravity vehicular locomotion, Elite Dangerous, moving around on low-gravity moons etc tended to involve mostly bouncing from one high point to the next if there was any surface irregularity to speak of. If you aren't actually in contact with the ground, there isn't any friction. I seem to recall they helped alleviate this by fitting their exploration buggy with downforce-generating booster rockets. Probably not practical in lunar reality, since you'd rapidly run out of fuel.

[Gambit21]

It's an interesting thought problem.

What if we set up a road course on the moon, paved it, and designed a lunar F1 car?

 

We'd scrap the wings first thing, and add a ton of mass so that it had enough friction to grip under lateral G-loads.

(we'll forget for now that a V12 will not run in that environment)

 

The whole "area of contact has nothing to do with force of friction" I understand completely on one hand, and I've even tested this... but then I don't get it.

To curb traction,  F1 cars were fitted with grooved tires in the 2000's specifically to reduce grip. Conversely they were fitted with massively wide

tires in the 70's to increase grip. 

Might this be because race car tires are so soft/sticky (like roofing tar, I've dug a finger nail in them more than once)...that we're not just dealing with "friction" in the classical sense of the word. A 4 inch piece of fly paper would be harder to drag off the counter than a 12 inch piece of fly paper, even though the weights were similar.

 

I used to love racing, but F1 is no fun anymore, and Indy car was ruined with IRL back in the day.

Dale died and ruined Nascar for me (along with restrictor plates)

IMSA isn't what it used to be (GTP Days) all of the prototypes look the same, no more Group C...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

5 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

Isnip

Heat Dissipation and just having more Material to wear away is the main reason to go bigger.

 

But on a Roadcar you want a mix of safety (soft) and fuel economy as well as long life (hard).

A Michelin Energysaver for example drives like Garbage and doesn't stop in the wet, but it lasts forever while my Current All-Seasons (Falken AS200) drive great but it's now 20000km and getting to the point where I'll change Fronts to rears again.

 

On a Roadcar I would expect that an F-1 Compound on the moon should last as long as my All-Seasons on Earth.

[Bremspropeller]

7 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

We'd scrap the wings first thing, and add a ton of mass so that it had enough friction to grip under lateral G-loads.

(we'll forget for now that a V12 will not run in that environment)

 

This is where weight and mass diverge:

 

In order to get the same weight (hence grip) in one sixth Earth's gravity, you'll need six times the mass, which means six times the inertia.

That would suck for acceleration and in corners (you'll need six times the grip, which puts you back in square one).

[Monostripezebra]

We all know that klaus just asks because he wants to dragrace on the moon.

[Gambit21]

We now know why all racing on the moon is done on high-banked ovals.

 

[DD_Arthur]

On 8/27/2021 at 2:31 AM, Gambit21 said:

I used to love racing, but F1 is no fun anymore, 

 

Surely not this year?  Anyway, as soon as the Moon is run by a petro-chemical dictator it'll get it's own F1 race.

[Monostripezebra]

On 8/28/2021 at 8:37 PM, Gambit21 said:

We now know why all racing on the moon is done on high-banked ovals.

 

Naa, it is off course air-breathing jets in circular, fragile-glassclad lunar stations.. everybody knows, that that is the best use of tax dollars!

Edited September 2, 2021 by Monostripezebra

[javelina]

On 8/25/2021 at 10:45 AM, ZachariasX said:

Given the surface temperature is anywhere +127°C to -232°C, I wouldn't expect tires to last long. Also, they probably don't like direct sunlight. I wouldn't give warranty on tires for lunar driving.

I bet Discount Tire would still try to push their road hazard warranty though...