What fighter of non-German origin would you be most interested in?

[Jaws2002]

Cool.

 

Think about it. A pretty interesting ride. The iar81 is actually a dive bomber, with dive break and all. A center line 250kg bomb and a pair of 50kg bombs can make a lot of damage and you can place them accurately like a stuka.

Once you drop your bombs you have to fight your way back....because you can't outrun anyone.

Slow, long nose, radial engine, awesome visibility in the air, but can't see crap out of it on the ground. Every time you take one up, or bring one for landing, the ground crew is betting on your chances to end up in the control tower or in the side of a hangar.

 

What's not to like?

 

[Cybermat47]

Ok, you've convinced me. Vote changed to the IAR 80.

[Jaws2002]

Awesome. Thank you!

 

Here's a cool little video of IAR-80 escorting Romanian He-111s and Savoia Marchetti JRS-79B bombers, on the eastern front:

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?=KT9xiWM47iI

Edited September 28, 2013 by Jaws2002

[Avimimus]

IAR-81 would probably be better. But the IAR-80 is a much more unique aircraft compared to the Mc.202. IMHO, the Mc-202 should be built for a Mediterranean expansion.

[Jaws2002]

Iar 80 and 81 are basically just versions of the same plane, with the 80 being pure fighter and the 81 being equiped with bomb carying, dive bombing equipment.

 

There were versions of both at Stalingrad. Iar80b fighters with 4x7.92mm fn brownings + 2x13.2mm fn brownings and iar81 with 6x7.92mm brownings +250 or 100kg bomb in the center and pair of 50kg bombs on the wings.

Othher iar versions could come as weapon upgrades and cover the whole series.

Edited October 3, 2013 by Jaws2002

[Jaws2002]

Perfect candidate for weapons upgrade package:

IAR-80M or IAR-81C

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 You know you want it.  

Edited October 5, 2013 by Jaws2002

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

IIRC the 20mm MG151 modification would not fit the timeframe ?!

Wasnt there aother 20mm in use before the Mauser?

[Jaws2002]

Correct. The Mauser armed wing was introduced in mid 1943. The Romanians wanted one for quite some time, but the Germans didn't want to release the guns for export. With this one, I was thinking more like a paid gun packs to have for later war missions.

 

The IAR-80C was equipped with The Icaria MG-FF, drum fed 20mm Cannon in adition to 4x7.92mm FN Brownings. Around 50 airframes were delivered with this weapons.

That one entered service a bit earlier. There was a IAR-81 version planned and ordered with the same weapons, but the planes were finished as IAR-80s (fighters), due to the needs of the front.

 

 

 

 

Actually the version produced in the most numbers was the Mauser equipped one. about a third of the 450 airframes were IAR81C, and a lot of the six gun airframes were converted to 2xMauser +2x7.92mm  FN Brownings in 43 and 44.

Edited October 5, 2013 by Jaws2002

[Jaws2002]

This little book explains all versions and modifications very well:

 

http://www.radubstore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=118&products_id=373&zenid=5194b09916439e9fae51041a624fa9be

 

 

 

 

The author also has for sale really nice 1/32 scale drawings for all this versions on his site:

 

http://www.radubstore.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=119_120

 

Edited October 5, 2013 by Jaws2002

[leitmotiv]

ill need more data on that IAR you say, still not convinced we need it 

 

where could one test drive it?

Edited October 5, 2013 by Yaklover

[Avimimus]

Get a copy of Il-2 1946 - it has both planes... you can get an affordable DRM-free copy from GoG. Both are lovely aircraft. The IAR has a certain unique beauty to it... it is just a bit further away from the usual experience.

Oh - and the gunsight gives the impression of the plane having a monocle...

[Jaws2002]

ill need more data on that IAR you say, still not convinced we need it 

 

where could one test drive it?

Are you talking about the IAR80/81 or the IAR-81C/80M versions I posted above?

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Nice to see the IAR coming back strong

[Jaws2002]

Yep. Thank you all for the help.

 

Last time I checked, on the russian forum the IAR was leading with around 60 votes.

 

Hopefully we can get it. We can get the macchi later and I'll buy that one too the day is released..

They are both cool birds. The iar is just a lot more relevant for Stalingrad/eastern front.

[ITAF_Rani]

Mc202 development could be so helpfull for the next war theatre..North Africa...

Iar good plane....but Mc 202 is a real beaty to see ....

 

W mc 202

 

 

Salute

[Bearcat]

I voted for the IAR 80 but I really don't care.. I am fairly confident that this sim will wind up branching out and while we will most likely never see a plane set in this series like we had in IL2 .. even at 3.0 I think it will be diverse enough.. looking forward to whatever they bring.

[ITAF_Rani]

No other votes here?

[Jaws2002]

This poll was up for a long time. Most people discovered it already. Between this one and the Russian forum pretty good number of voters.

 

Anyway, thanks for the opportunity to post one more photo.

 

Dan Vizanty, Comander of 6th fighter squadron and highest scoring IAR-80/81 ace teaching  next generation of IAR-80 pilots:

 

Edited November 23, 2013 by Jaws2002

[Rjel]

Jaws, you seem to be well versed in the IAR series. I've always wondered why it never was modified to have a tailwheel as opposed to the skid. Any ideas? It seems rather primitive given how late in the war it was used.

[Jaws2002]

I don't have a clue. Maybe they didn't think it was worth it. They didn't actually plan to use the IAR80/81, as it was, with that weak engine, until the end of the war.  First' they thought the war will be over in few months and thought they are ok with what they have. 

   The IAR engine already passed it's prime before the plane even went in production. Once they joined axis they though they'll get better German engine and maybe finish the aircraft once they get the bigger engine. After few failed attempts to equip it with DB601 and the heavier Jumo, they wanted to license the BMW-801 engine. Germans didn't want to sell them. Not finished engines and not even the license to build them. Even modern guns, like the mg151 were off limits for the Romanians until mid 43.

Once they realized they won't get a better engine, but the Germans were willing to sell Bf-109 instead, in mid 43 the decision was made to abandon the IAR and switch to G6.

   

After that, the only thing they did to the IAR was arm them better. The idea was to keep the IAR for secondary, ground attack roles in the hopes that the fighter units will soon switch to 109s.

Many units did Switch to 109s, but once the front got to Romania and forced them to capitulate, they were now stuck with the slow a$$ IAR.

 

  In the end it was the lack of forward thinking, trying to get away with it for cheap  and not much enthusiasm for the war. Romania was stuck between two aggressive powers. They didn't have much love for either of them. In 1939 the Germans ordered them to give up a portion of Transylvania to  Hungary, a traditional German ally and in 1940 the Russians took a big chunk of the east of the country.  They only joined axis to get Moldavia back. That's why Romanian forces weren't too active after Odessa campaign. Most Romanians were against going further into Russian territory after liberating Basarabia.

Very little was done in 1942. Romanian airforce only got around a dozen kills for the whole 1942 prior Stalingrad. They only got back to war at Stalingrad. Now with obsolete  gear and planes.   

 

The tail skid was the last of their worries.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Jaws2002

[DD_bongodriver]

IAR-80

[-MG-Cacti4-6]

not real fond of those selections, if i had to choose one it would be the 202. But truth be told, I am not real familiar with the eastern front, i was always a western and pacific front guy. 'merica and all that

[Flyingpencil]

IAR 80, simply because it is unique and played a roll.  It will be a magnet for those qurious about the almost forgotten aircraft of the era.

 

The Italian aircraft will very likely be added later.

[Jaws2002]

not real fond of those selections, if i had to choose one it would be the 202. But truth be told, I am not real familiar with the eastern front, i was always a western and pacific front guy. 'merica and all that

 

The IAR had plenty of contact with the American aircraft during ww2. Remember the Ploesti campaign? That little IAR was one of the main opponents during those raids.

[Emgy]

not real fond of those selections, if i had to choose one it would be the 202. But truth be told, I am not real familiar with the eastern front, i was always a western and pacific front guy. 'merica and all that

The highest scoring American fighter type fought on the east front . http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/baranovsky/baranovsky.htm

 

Jaws: about the IAR-81 with 20mm : would it fit as a "simple" weapons unlock for the IAR-80A or B, like the LaGG-3 K-37 is an in-game weapons mod for the LaGG-3-29?

Or would it require changes to the external model and cockpit?

Edited November 29, 2013 by Calvamos

[Bf-110]

I have to say I like IAR more.It's a different and also a good plane.Curious to see it on HD.

 

 

But to not let the Italians empty handed, after they model the IAR-80/81, they can model the one Italian plane that fought hard at Stalingrad:  Savoia-Marchetti  JRS-79B.  

 

The1st Romanian Bomber Group equipped with 22  Savoia-Marchetti JRS-79B were sent to Stalingrad in September 1942 and were involved in fighting until Januarry 1943.

 

Cool bird.

 

 

 

 

 

+++++1!

I'd go even further and make a bold suggestion!I hope they add french planes for the new IL-2 series!They were used by Romania as well.
 

Edited November 30, 2013 by Bf-110

[Jaws2002]

 

 

Jaws: about the IAR-81 with 20mm : would it fit as a "simple" weapons unlock for the IAR-80A or B, like the LaGG-3 K-37 is an in-game weapons mod for the LaGG-3-29?

Or would it require changes to the external model and cockpit?

 

There were small differences both, in cockpit, internal and the external between versions. Most noticeable external differences are on the wings, as the 7.92mm guns were moved around to make room for the 20mm cannons.

 

Two versions were present at Stalingrad.

               IAR-80B fighters.

                           2x13.2mm FN Brownings + 4x &.92mm FN Brownings +50kg wing mounted drop tanks.

 

               IAR-81 Dive bomber

                          6x 7.9mm FN Brownings

                          1x250kg bomb or 1x100Kg bomb + 2x50kg bombs or 2x50kg drop tanks.

Now the 20mm armed planes.

 

 The IAR-80C was equipped with 4x 7.92mm FN Brownings + a pair of Ikaria MG-FF 20mm, drum fed cannons.  This are same guns used on the BF-109E. This were fighters. They moved one of the 7.9mm guns further out on the wing to make room for the 20mm ammo drum. Another change visible outside was the intake for the supercharger was fitted with a filter operated from the cockpit. In the cockpit this control was the only visible change from the IAR-80B that fought at Stalingrad.

photo share

  Only other modifications not present in the aircraft present at Stalingrad was a pneumatic ram to assist opening the canopy at high speed and the wing carriers were modified to take 10kg drop tanks.

 

The IAR-81C and IAR-80M were armed with 20mm Mauser MG151 belt fed cannons and a pair of 7.92mm FN Brownings.

 

The IAR-81C was the definitive version of the aircraft. It was built in most numbers. A third of the 450 aircraft left the factory as IAR-81C.

This version left the factory configured as Dive bomber, with dive bombing equipment. Many were used as fighters and had the dive bombing equipment removed. Difference to earlier aircraft. wing modified for the new cannons, and wing mounted bomb/drop tank rack moved further out. Front armor windscreen armor increase to 75mm. A modified air filter was added to the supercharger intake, with the intake shutter linked to the landing gear, which closed it automatically when the landing gear extracted.

 IAR-80M was just factory upgrade of older airframes and this upgraded them to the IAR-81C firepower, but without the bomb carrying equipment.

 

So to model them in game, they can release two planes with few extra arming options, if they want to model the extra armament.

 

IAR-80B with one extra variant I'm fine with paid upgrades like in ROF.

     --80C

     

 

IAR81 with one extra variant (the most numerous version of the plane) Paid or not, I don't care.

   --81C for this one the plane can be modeled so that the dive bombing equipment is only loaded if the player selects a bomb for the central rack. Most planes were used as fighters anyway, with the central rack removed. The standard IAR81 can also stand in for earlier version IAR-80s if no bombs are loaded this way.

[Jaws2002]

 

I'd go even further and make a bold suggestion!I hope they add french planes for the new IL-2 series!They were used by Romania as well.

 

 

 

 

 

Potez 633B2

Twenty Potez 633B2s were received in 1939 and were immediately impressed into service in the 2nd Bomber Group. At the beginning of the Operation Barbarossa, the group had 17 aircraft. Three were lost in the first day only. In July, after one month of operations the 75th Squadron transferred all its surviving Potez bombers to the 74th Squadron, which also had taken a lot of damage, and was reequipped with JRS-79Bs.

The 74th Bomber Squadron participated in the battle of Odessa and flew more missions than any other unit of the 2nd Bomber Flotilla. At the end of the 1941 campaign, there it had 5 available and 1 unavailable Potez 633B2. Seven aircraft of these type were lost and the rest were under repairs.

Nine Potez 633s were received in September and October 1941. These were used to bolster the forces of the 74th Squadron, now subordinated to the 3rd Bomber Group.

Under this organization the Potez bombers participated in the second campaign, over Stalingrad. The lack of spare parts meant that their serviceability was low. After the Soviet counter-offensive they had to be retreated back to Romania. Only two were lost in combat.

Some Potez 633B2s were used as reconnaissance aircraft during the Stalingrad campaign in the 3rd Long Range Recon Squadron. The number of losses is unknown. They were also retreated in December to Romania.

Because the 3rd Bomber Group was going to convert to the Ju-87D, the Potez 633B2s were assigned to the 1st Fighter Flotilla as trainers for night fighter pilots

 

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

not to forgett, the IAR81 had a slightly shorter wingspan (10,52m) compared to the 80B/C and 81C (11m)

[Jaws2002]

not to forgett, the IAR81 had a slightly shorter wingspan (10,52m) compared to the 80B/C and 81C (11m)

 

 There were three batches of the basic IAR-81 built. First one airframes with serial # 91 to # 105, second one from #151 to #175 and  the third one #231 to #240. I'm not sure but I think the third batch got the larger wing. This airframes included all the changes/upgrades made on the IAR-80B airframes and the 80B got the big wing. I may be wrong though. Everything after that got the big wing. 

[Emgy]

Thanks for the comprehensive info Jaws!

But I shouldn't be a "snob for cannons", the one with two 13.2mm Brownings and four 7.92mm should be fun enough. After all there were P-40 pilots who found it sufficient to fly with two 12.7mm Brownings in the fighter role.

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

There were three batches of the basic IAR-81 built. First one airframes with serial # 91 to # 105, second one from #151 to #175 and  the third one #231 to #240. I'm not sure but I think the third batch got the larger wing. This airframes included all the changes/upgrades made on the IAR-80B airframes and the 80B got the big wing. I may be wrong though. Everything after that got the big wing.

 

i had a second look into Brinzans book, all 3 batches of the 81 had the short wings. But also a lot of the 80B ones

 

So if 777 decide to build the IAR for a Stalingrad scenario, a short wing modell should do it to represent a 81 Divebomber and a 80B Fighter.

[Jaws2002]

Strictly for stalingrad the short wing 80b and 81 would be perfect.

I just mentioned the later versions, based on what I saw in ROF. In ROF they usually did a model with it's main versions and then released extra gear and weapon upgrades as paid addons.

For example the spad7 got two versions 150 and 180hp and with the upgrades and weapon packs covered the whole series at once. No need to revisit the plane later if we get another map where later versions were involved. With all IAR versions being so close in performance it would make sense to get it all done at once.

If they plan to do a Crimea map, the rest of the variations could be done at that point.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Jaws2002

[Heliopause]

I.A.R.80. (otherwise an Macchi M.C.200)

[rolikiraly]

Any info on the armament of the Folgores sent to the Eastern front? Did they have the two wing MGs (serie VII+ ?) or not?

BTW looking at the votes it seems they will have to make both  I wouldn't mind at all

[Jaws2002]

Any info on the armament of the Folgores sent to the Eastern front? Did they have the two wing MGs (serie VII+ ?) or not?

BTW looking at the votes it seems they will have to make both  I wouldn't mind at all

On the Russian language forum the IAR leads with 90+ votes.   

 

I hope we get it.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Jaws2002

[JG300_Tempest]

IAR suits the Stalingrad front. It is very important to give the Stalingrad opus a wider range of aircraft.

 

The C.202 is also a great value for further development, and the engine already exists ! But it surely will be more useful in the MTO.

[jaydee]

Strictly for stalingrad the short wing 80b and 81 would be perfect.

I just mentioned the later versions, based on what I saw in ROF. In ROF they usually did a model with it's main versions and then released extra gear and weapon upgrades as paid addons.

For example the spad7 got two versions 150 and 180hp and with the upgrades and weapon packs covered the whole series at once. No need to revisit the plane later if we get another map where later versions were involved. With all IAR versions being so close in performance it would make sense to get it all done at once.

If they plan to do a Crimea map, the rest of the variations could be done at that point.

Ok Jaws,Im sold ! I voted IR 80 !...Great presentation with all your posts mate ! ~S~

[Marvel]

Mc.202 for ever!!!! :)

 

Ciao!

 

Marco

[Jaws2002]

Ok Jaws,Im sold ! I voted IR 80 !...Great presentation with all your posts mate ! ~S~

 

Thank you.  Looking at this thread, I do feel like a pushy salesman.

 

Sorry about that.    The IAR is worth it.