Placard under the Fw-190 headrest

[Oyster_KAI]

This is the placard under the Fw-190 headrest, see the right side of line 3:
Im Probefall or Jm Probefall
which one is correct?
Could anyone who knows German help confirm?

 

↑DCS Fw-190A8

[oc2209]

I don't speak German, but I'm 83% sure the signs that appear to say 'Jm' are simply an odd font style for an uppercase 'I'. I know enough about German to know the word 'im' is much more likely than the word 'jm' (which I'd wager doesn't exist).

Edited August 18, 2021 by oc2209

[AEthelraedUnraed]

Not a native German speaker, but in the Netherlands we're taught German at high school so I know that im is a contraction of "in dem". I know of no term such as "Jm" and frankly it wouldn't make sense as a word (perhaps as an initialism). I agree with oc2209 that it's most likely the font style, probably to better differentiate between upper case I and lower case l (see the problem? That's an i and an L xD).

[JG4_Stifneck]

Iam german, it is an i. Jm doesnt make any sense.

[Oyster_KAI]

Want to know whether the "J" in the photo is a historically correct variant of I(i), or is it just a typo?

[AEthelraedUnraed]

14 minutes ago, Oyster_KAI said:

Want to know whether the "J" in the photo is a historically correct variant of I(i), or is it just a typo?

Well, given that you posted photos of both types (except DCS; another game is of course never a good reference), I'm inclined to believe that both ways were in existence and are historically correct. That said, I think it's more likely that it's just a different font than that it's a typo.

[Fritz_X]

As a native German speaker I can confirm that the letter is a capital >i<. And yes, it does indeed look like a capital >j< on the first glance.

 

It definitely isn't a typo (as you can see when comparing it with the historical photos posted above), but due to the use of this (not anymore common) certain font.

Edited August 18, 2021 by Fritz_X

[Schwalberich]

I am native speaker as well and my handwritten capital I looks like a J as well as my handwritten J looks like J

 

Don't ask me why ?

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

I'm german, and what I understand is that the Ejection Mechanism on the 190 happens via Explosive Bolts, which I am gonna guess are connected to a mechanism similar to a Gun, and the Schlagbolzen is the Firing Pin.
So when testing the Mechanism you are supposed put the Schlagbolzen in it's safe Position so that when you test the Mechanism you don't blow the Canopy by accident.

[FTC_ChilliBalls]

This is tame, some street signs in Vienna still use this front.

 

??????????? ????? ???ü????. ℑ? ????????? ????????? ????????? ??? ?????????????.

 

Abwurfhebel nicht berühren. Im Probefall vorherige Sicherung des Schlagbolzens.

[Kurfurst]

To me it seems too of a case of Gothic capital ‘I’ looking more like ‘J’.

 

Keep in mind that in Germany gothic fonts were used in print until 1941 (the Nazis figured out that Gothic fonts, somehow, some way are actually non-Aryan, and so forced the ‘return’ of Latin fonts of classic antiquity, which replaced Gothic fonts in 1941)

 

I take this as an early teething issue of the switchover and suddenly having to use Latin letters, and somebody in the factory had to put a capital ‘I’ but only had the old ‘J’ at hand, or simply out of old habit.

Despite the obvious advantage and beauty to deciphering Gothic fonts on emergency notes in a highly emotional situation like when 500 liters of gasoline burning just beneath you, the change was probably a reasonable thing.

[sevenless]

It is a capital -I- not a -J- written in a variant of a font called Fraktur or Mainzer Fraktur, which was pretty common font used in Germany until the mid 40s. Capital I and J were very similar except for charakter height.

 

On 8/18/2021 at 7:30 AM, Oyster_KAI said:

Want to know whether the "J" in the photo is a historically correct variant of I(i), or is it just a typo?

 

No typo. The capital I and J in font Fraktur and Suetterlin are very similar:

 

 

Some Background to the font family here:

 

A Smart Blackletter Font: 7 Questions for Gerrit Ansmann - Journal - Typography.Guru

 

and here:

 

Göschen Fraktur (peter-wiegel.de)

 

[AEthelraedUnraed]

11 hours ago, sevenless said:

It is a capital -I- not a -J- written in a variant of a font called Fraktur or Mainzer Fraktur, which was pretty common font used in Germany until the mid 40s. Capital I and J were very similar except for charakter height.

 

 

No typo. The capital I and J in font Fraktur and Suetterlin are very similar:

 

 

Some Background to the font family here:

 

A Smart Blackletter Font: 7 Questions for Gerrit Ansmann - Journal - Typography.Guru

 

and here:

 

Göschen Fraktur (peter-wiegel.de)

 

To be frank, I don't think it's Fraktur. Much too straight lines/corners. Fraktur is a blackletter script, and this particular "I" definitely doesn't look like blackletter.

[sevenless]

14 minutes ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

To be frank, I don't think it's Fraktur. Much too straight lines/corners. Fraktur is a blackletter script, and this particular "I" definitely doesn't look like blackletter.

 

That is why I wrote it is a variant. Quote: Unifraktur Maguntia was an exception to this, but—like most blackletter fonts—was based on a dissatisfying digitalisation, e.g., words like Luftfahrt featured bars of f and t at three different heights, and the J and I were just scaled versions of each other.

 

How about this font?

 

Edited August 21, 2021 by sevenless

[AEthelraedUnraed]

5 minutes ago, sevenless said:

That is why I wrote it is a variant. Quote: Unifraktur Maguntia was an exception to this, but—like most blackletter fonts—was based on a dissatisfying digitalisation, e.g., words like Luftfahrt featured bars of f and t at three different heights, and the J and I were just scaled versions of each other.

Fraktur is a font family rather than a single font, so I also meant its variants when I stated that it doesn't look like Fraktur

 

It may have things in common with some Fraktur fonts, sure, but itself doesn't at all look like any Fraktur variant I've seen.

[sevenless]

2 minutes ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

Fraktur is a font family rather than a single font, so I also meant its variants when I stated that it doesn't look like Fraktur

 

It may have things in common with some Fraktur fonts, sure, but itself doesn't at all look like any Fraktur variant I've seen.

 

And your proposal as to which font family the "I" in question might belong is what?

[unlikely_spider]

1 hour ago, sevenless said:

 

And your proposal as to which font family the "I" in question might belong is what?

Comic Sans

[Bremspropeller]

2 hours ago, sevenless said:

 

That is why I wrote it is a variant. Quote: Unifraktur Maguntia was an exception to this, but—like most blackletter fonts—was based on a dissatisfying digitalisation, e.g., words like Luftfahrt featured bars of f and t at three different heights, and the J and I were just scaled versions of each other.

 

How about this font?

 

 

Grobe Deutschmeister?

 

That sounds like adult-entertainment with lots of latex...

[sevenless]

4 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

 

Grobe Deutschmeister?

 

That sounds like adult-entertainment with lots of latex...

 

SM german style ...? Was also my first thought when I read the name of the font.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

59 minutes ago, sevenless said:

And your proposal as to which font family the "I" in question might belong is what?

I'm not saying I know what font family it belongs to, only that it's not Fraktur.

 

It's stylistically similar to the surrounding text. I think there's a good chance it actually is a "J" that was used instead of the "I" because they couldn't find the proper stencil, as VO101Kurfurst suggests. Either that, or it's simply a very weird font that may have copied one or two characteristics from the Fraktur family, but does not belong to it.

 

On 8/20/2021 at 8:03 AM, VO101Kurfurst said:

Keep in mind that in Germany gothic fonts were used in print until 1941 (the Nazis figured out that Gothic fonts, somehow, some way are actually non-Aryan, and so forced the ‘return’ of Latin fonts of classic antiquity, which replaced Gothic fonts in 1941)

 

They definitely used it as a (very lame) excuse, and there were a few specific Fraktur fonts that were in fact created by Jewish designers, but the true reason is more that they thought a blackletter font would hinder the spread of German as a new global language as nobody but the Germans could read it. They were probably right.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

I asked my father, whom I happened to meet today and who (besides loving WW2 history) was a trained graphic designer who worked in the business for many years. He agreed with my assessment that it's definitely not Fraktur, and added that it's "most definitely a J". As for why they used a "J", he put forth three possible explanations:

- It's a simple mistake.

- For some reason (e.g. lack of proper stencils) they weren't able to use an "I".

- Whomever designed/typeset the sign thought the "I" would be too narrow, which would screw up the spacing. This is also a reason the "I" has serifs in many sans-serif fonts.

 

He then proceeded to explain why the latter explanation is the least likely. Apparently the spacing is fine without the "serifs" and there is no good reason to resort to using a "J" to improve it.

 

So, long story short, the "I" was either a plain mistake or a temporary solution to some problem at the factory. In later (or earlier?) series they spotted the mistake or fixed the problem, which is why you see a proper "I" in the top two pictures.

[Asgar]

In German handwriting this is capital I : and this is a captical J: 

So somone might have just thought he was using an I when he was in fact using a J

[=_=HeavenAndClouds]

What does the sign actually say? can anyone translate for mongo? 

[THERION]

On 8/21/2021 at 10:06 PM, Asgar said:

In German handwriting this is capital I : and this is a captical J: 

So somone might have just thought he was using an I when he was in fact using a J

 

Exactly, but may I add some crucial detail for this?

 

The capital I is written on the writing line, whereas the capital J and the capital j are written with the loop going below the writing line.
This is an important detail, especially for the handwriting.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

29 minutes ago, =SquadTag=Username_ said:

What does the sign actually say? can anyone translate for mongo? 

It warns of the Explosives that throw the Canopy Clear when the Ejection handle is pulled.

Before doing a Function Test on the Mechanism that triggers the Explosive Bolts you must put the Firing Pin in the Safe Position.

 

The Consequences of not doing this would be quite comical.

[Diggun]

Am I doing this right? Or did I misread the OP?

 

 

 

I'll see myself out...

[spreckair]

Aiyaaa!  You gotta love this forum.