What's new in IL-2 that will bring you back for Battle of Normandy?

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

For me it is the channel map...you cant have a high fidelity ww2 combat flight sim without one. The new channel map in DCS is amazing, but here we will have many more units and better scenarios due to a much more complete and polished product (and better visuals and performance in vr).

Edited July 29, 2021 by =AW=drewm3i-VR

[DD_Arthur]

14 hours ago, =VARP=Ribbon said:

Map was the sole reason i bought BoN and looking forward to it!

 

Rest of it is pretty much same copy paste gameplay since Stalingrad release which become boring after few years.

It would be nice if devs step up il2 a bit and add medium bombers and torpedo bombers......following PTO expansion, graphics engine upgrade and better optimization (overcome some game limitations).

Wish them all the best to achieve that ?

 

For me it’s not the map but the Mosquito and the P51b.

 

 I do agree that for the rest it’s the same old stuff.

 

Still very much looking forward to one day flying off a carrier.

Preferably the Pacific but I’d be equally happy to be in the Med or off the coast of Korea.

 

 

 

 

[Na-zdorovie]

Everything in it.. Arado the mossie, etc whats not to love

[JG4_Moltke1871]

I jump into flight sims in general just one year ago so I missed the Glorious time of CloD…So I can’t wait this Map! 
I must confess I get a bit horny when I think about cross the channel for Bombing missions!!

And I really can’t wait the twin engine planes! Me410 and Arado will be very special I Hope, for the 88c I hope there comes a Version with more powerful engines if it’s possible implement this historical correctly.

 I fly mainly blue but also the Mosquito will have my attention.

But the future Task for the developers  should be bring a bit more variety to the blue fighters. On red side is much more choice and this brings much more options for every task. I am clear about this is difficult because it’s a simple fact there was more variety on allied side. But a first step is done with the Romanian plane (just forgot the name ?), maybe it’s a bit Motivation for the Developers bring planes like Ta152 or Do 335.

Edited July 29, 2021 by JG4_Moltke1871

[BlitzPig_EL]

Ah, you mean planes that did basically NOTHING in the real war?  There are too many aircraft that really had an effect on the war that are missing and should be brought into the sim long before the late war German prototypes and "what if" planes that did nothing to speak of.

[cardboard_killer]

38 minutes ago, JG4_Moltke1871 said:

maybe it’s a bit Motivation for the Developers bring planes like Ta152 or Do 335.

 

I would much, much prefer more Italian planes, and some of the planes imported by the Finns would be great, too. German single seat fighters are well covered at this point.

[Eisenfaustus]

36 minutes ago, JG4_Moltke1871 said:

planes like Ta152

I‘d love to have the Ta152 in IL2 BoX fidelity - yet as it saw next to no action it doesn’t fit the scope of this sim too well. But obviously still better than the Do 335. 

The only relevant fighters left fitting the current maps would be the Fw190a9 and the bf109g10. Even if we got a module set earlier it would mainly be 109s and 110s. So more fighter aircraft variety for the blue side could mainly achieved by changing theatre to include Italians or Japanese. 

[Trooper117]

And that would bring us back to one of the reasons why the pacific is not happening at the moment... lack of information and tech knowledge of the aircraft required.

[Gambit21]

2 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Ah, you mean planes that did basically NOTHING in the real war?  There are too many aircraft that really had an effect on the war that are missing and should be brought into the sim long before the late war German prototypes and "what if" planes that did nothing to speak of.

 

Yeah - like the Storch!

[JG4_Moltke1871]

2 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Ah, you mean planes that did basically NOTHING in the real war?  There are too many aircraft that really had an effect on the war that are missing and should be brought into the sim long before the late war German prototypes and "what if" planes that did nothing to speak of.

Ok, the Do335 maybe too experimental with just 40 build planes…. But the Ta 152 was in service and scored.

2 hours ago, cardboard_killer said:

 

I would much, much prefer more Italian planes, and some of the planes imported by the Finns would be great, too. German single seat fighters are well covered at this point.

Yes, why not. Every plane welcome makes sense in the Szenario.

[Gambit21]

2 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

And that would bring us back to one of the reasons why the pacific is not happening at the moment... lack of information and tech knowledge of the aircraft required.

 

I’m grateful that apparently there’s so much of that information available for all of those WWI aircraft...or we’d never get FC.

[Ribbon]

7 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

 

For me it’s not the map but the Mosquito and the P51b.

 

 I do agree that for the rest it’s the same old stuff.

 

Still very much looking forward to one day flying off a carrier.

Preferably the Pacific but I’d be equally happy to be in the Med or off the coast of Korea.

 

 

 

 

For me when it comes to aircrafts only flyable b25 or b26 would bring huge joy.

Mossie is nice but it doesn't have bomber cockpit feel as B-boys have (copilot, crew.....immersion)

Than goes PTO or MTO nevermind the aircraft models as long it provides carrier/naval ops and torpedos.

 

But Channel map will bring me back into il2 for sure, at least for a while.

Getting back home and navigating across channel is something i look forward to....cherry on top would be getting flyable b25/26 and torpedo bomber (ju88a17) for Germans as it would fit BoN map perfectly.

That would make awaiting PTO much easier!

[Jade_Monkey]

8 hours ago, =AW=drewm3i-VR said:

For me it is the channel map...you cant have a high fidelity ww2 combat flight sim without one. The new channel map in DCS is amazing, but here we will have many more units and better scenarios due to a much more complete and polished product (and better visuals and performance in vr).

 

The DCS Channel map is interesting. The English side is extremely well done (airfields, landscape, towns). The continental side is very bland and mediocre although not bad at all. Unfortunately the map size is just too small to have meaningful SP content.

 

The DCS Normandy map is a total travesty. Some parts are really well done (near the Normandy beaches) but then others are completely abandoned. Anything above Le Havre is literally blank. There are no towns or even actual landscape in England, just airfields. It's as if it was an afterthought.

 

They bothered to make My St Michel which is out of the way but didn't have Dieppe? Idk...

 

One thing IL2 does better is being consistent and covering the map consistently.

[Art-J]

42 minutes ago, Jade_Monkey said:

The DCS Normandy map is a total travesty. Some parts are really well done (near the Normandy beaches) but then others are completely abandoned. Anything above Le Havre is literally blank. There are no towns or even actual landscape in England, just airfields. It's as if it was an afterthought.

 

That's because it was an afterthought indeed :D. Originally, the map was supposed to be smaller, one could say "air quake"-style and feature only the post-landing area of the Normandy coast with its airfields and towns. In the "last minute" before the release, Ugra guys were persuaded to expand the map somewhat and at least add a simplified outline of a chunk of English coast with some generic airfields on it, just to make cross-channel missions possible at all. 2 years later they've thrown in some extra airfields on the south -east for playability reasons as well, but that's about it. 

[Trooper117]

1 hour ago, Gambit21 said:

 

I’m grateful that apparently there’s so much of that information available for all of those WWI aircraft...or we’d never get FC.

 

I hear you, and I bet that if they did a poll to find out if we would mind if they did do a Pacific battle series, but making the Japanese aircraft to their best approximation of their FM's and cockpit layouts etc, it would be overwhelmingly positive to GET IT DONE GUYS!

[Gambit21]

1 hour ago, Jade_Monkey said:

 

The DCS Channel map is interesting. The English side is extremely well done (airfields, landscape, towns). The continental side is very bland and mediocre although not bad at all. Unfortunately the map size is just too small to have meaningful SP content.

 

It could be done.

Lots of pre-invasion ground attack/interdiction/intruder options - tons.

 

...but yeah, more expansion into France would help.

[JG4_Moltke1871]

Who else will make a single player holiday flight over the white cliffs of Dover? ?

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

4 hours ago, Jade_Monkey said:

 

The DCS Channel map is interesting. The English side is extremely well done (airfields, landscape, towns). The continental side is very bland and mediocre although not bad at all. Unfortunately the map size is just too small to have meaningful SP content.

 

The DCS Normandy map is a total travesty. Some parts are really well done (near the Normandy beaches) but then others are completely abandoned. Anything above Le Havre is literally blank. There are no towns or even actual landscape in England, just airfields. It's as if it was an afterthought.

 

They bothered to make My St Michel which is out of the way but didn't have Dieppe? Idk...

 

One thing IL2 does better is being consistent and covering the map consistently.

I agree with everything you say here. DCS is like a diamond covered in dung. The Channel Map is the best I've seen though.

5 minutes ago, JG4_Moltke1871 said:

Who else will make a single player holiday flight over the white cliffs of Dover? ?

I literally do this a few times a week in DCS lol

[Gambit21]

4 hours ago, Jade_Monkey said:

 

One thing IL2 does better is being consistent and covering the map consistently.

 

It is consistent - that cannot be disputed.

[Denum]

I'm just hoping for some DM and multiplayer improvements. 

 

[LukeFF]

5 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

I’m grateful that apparently there’s so much of that information available for all of those WWI aircraft...or we’d never get FC.

 

The thing with WWI planes is there actually is a good amount of data there, both in how the planes looked inside the cockpit and flight performance data. Where the problems come is the inconsistency in how that performance data was gathered, i.e., the condition of the plane, the weather conditions, how horsepower was measured, etc. Then of course we have all the pilot anecdotes, and that's where a lot of people get hung up - they read something from a pilot's journal entry, and then they will bitch and moan that their favorite plane is underperforming, etc. See Also: the Rise of Flight forums. ?

[Gambit21]

7 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

The thing with WWI planes is there actually is a good amount of data there, both in how the planes looked inside the cockpit and flight performance data. Where the problems come is the inconsistency in how that performance data was gathered, i.e., the condition of the plane, the weather conditions, how horsepower was measured, etc. Then of course we have all the pilot anecdotes, and that's where a lot of people get hung up - they read something from a pilot's journal entry, and then they will bitch and moan that their favorite plane is underperforming, etc. See Also: the Rise of Flight forums. ?

 

 

Reg RoF forums.

lol yep - I remember.

[oc2209]

I know this is off topic, but since the OP mentioned wanting more varied weather effects, it's sort of pertinent here; really I just don't think it's worth making a new thread for it.

 

I was flying in terrible weather again (this time at sunrise, for more fog), and something odd happened:

 

 

The 109 I was chasing quite literally fell apart mid-air. Never seen anything like it before, in 500+ hours.

 

Was it a lightning strike? Or some kind of wind-shear effect being modelled?

 

This is what it looked like from below:

 

 

You can see the point where the 109's engine smoke suddenly gets darker. He was circling above me, and I hadn't fired a single round yet.

 

The 109 pilot was seemingly uninjured, as he lost altitude in what appeared to be a controlled descent. But because I'm a prick, I murdered him before he could land:

 

 

[Algy-Lacey]

For me the novelty attraction is being able to defend my homeland. The Spitfire Mk XIV (for which I have been waiting forever) and before it the Mk XII, as well as the Typhoon were used against low level FW 190's attacking the coastal towns of blighty, and then there is the V1 threat to counter.

 

On the offensive, I think that the Mosquito is the first twin engine fighter bomber I will fly in this sim, probably at treetop height into enemy occupied France, if I get shot up I can imagine nursing my plane with just one engine back home across the channel.

 

There could be some interesting collectors aircraft that would open up new gameplay possibilities. Like a Westland Lysander to ferry secret agents into France, and a PBY Catalina to pick up downed airmen from the Channel waters.

 

Lastly, if there are 2 maps, one pre invasion and one post invasion, if I were the developers it would make shrewd business sense to do a 1941 plane set for the channel map. I know they haven't tried a plane pack without it's own map apart from single collectors aircraft, but in this instance it would work well imho. Even a 'dogfight duels' (airfix) style Spitfire 1a and Bf109 E-3.

 

Happy Landings!

Algy-Lacey

Edited July 29, 2021 by Algy-Lacey
Lysander!

[istari6]

On 7/28/2021 at 11:16 AM, Asgar said:

the 410 was a Zerstörer, capable of carrying 2 500kg bombs in an internal bomb bay at reasonable speed, they flew raids over the English coastal region and mined the channel, flew recon missions and were indeed used in the Reichsdefense.  It can carry such a wide array of armamanets: 37 and 50mm cannon, 20mm gunpod in the bomb bay, 50, 250 and 500kg bombs (and maybe some non standard configuration to carry the 1000kg bomb) 30mm gun pod in the bomb bay, drop tanks (can you imagine the range?) and if that's not enough for you Just look at her! She's beautiful, if everything else fails, i can just fly her and look at the external view playing with my.... ehm... joystick

Thanks for the info! 

 

On 7/28/2021 at 12:28 PM, oc2209 said:

I get what you're saying about wanting more variety. Obviously that's always desirable. However, even if the devs only add small incremental improvements in that regard, I still wouldn't see that as a disappointment. Ultimately the sim is about as exciting as you choose to make it.

 

For instance, the other day someone in the Wilson Campaign challenge thread mentioned how hard it was to shoot down Stukas in early model Yaks. So I decided to try some quick battles with myself in various Yaks against a Stuka with AI set to Ace (meaning the gunner was stupidly laser-accurate)...

Agree that part of the fun of flight sims is they're "sandboxes."  One can always setup their own flying skill challenges.  No argument there.  For me personally, I enjoy the challenges of having realistic settings and missions, then needing to learn the skills to meet those challenges.  SP campaigns, both scripted and "Ironman" Careers is what I enjoy most, so adding more gameplay mechanics in those areas is what I'm hoping for.  

23 hours ago, oc2209 said:

Truthfully, I never bother to fly in poor weather conditions. Because you bring it up, though, I decided to max all the worst weather settings possible. This was the result:

 

(Clipped video) 

 

In another duel with the same settings, I lowered the cloud base to 500m (the lowest possible). That was much more confusing to fly through than the above clip, which had the clouds set at 3k meters. I would've included a clip of the lower clouds, but the dogfight took nearly 10 minutes to complete because I kept losing the AI in the clouds. High wind, by itself, doesn't really cause many problems in flight, other than reducing the tightness/stability of your turns. I also landed in it, but the particular field I chose wasn't cross-wind (going by the windsock), so that also wasn't very difficult.

 

Looking at that video, it's certainly atmospheric.  But actual challenges with visibility, darkness, obscuring clouds, etc seem to be much more common during campaigns or scenarios in the other sim.  Not saying that IL-2 GB can't do it.  I remember there's a specific IL-2 Sturmovik (Model 1942?) single mission that has you hunting down Panzers in near whiteout conditions.  Really pulse-pounding and thrilling to try to navigate under a low cloud ceiling, figure out how to accomplish the mission.  Wish we saw more examples like that to add different challenges to the gameplay.  Perhaps Normandy will have Thunderstorms to add to the Heavy Clouds of the current setting?   

21 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

We may have to agree to disagree on what minor handling variations are because the Spitfire XIV and Typhoon fly very differently than the other aircraft we have. Admittedly there's little difference between the Fw190A-6 and the A-5 or the Bf109G-6 Late and the G-6/G-14 although both are actually in interesting places performance wise that make them interesting. But it is subtle sure.

 

I can definitely get behind the idea that we want to see some new types of missions in Career mode. That'd be great. I don't think that has anything to do specific to aircraft but rather more ways to use them. Yeah that makes sense. I'd like to see anti-ship missions for a variety of scenarios. Even Battle of Stalingrad used to have an anti-ship mission against ships on the Volga so that'd be nice to have back. Other Normandy specific scenarios will surely be a thing as well... Crossbow missions, V-1 intercepts, etc.

Fw 190 A-5 vs Fw 190 A-6 is not compelling.  P-51B/C vs P-51D is also mostly uninteresting from an airplane performance standpoint, although the unreliability and decreased number of Brownings (4 x 0.50cals) will add challenges.  Agree that Spitfire XIV is a different airplane than the Mk IX, and that will be fun to explore.  That's why the title of the thread is just a question to the community, not an argument that Battle of Normandy is a waste of money :).  But beyond exploring slightly to moderately different performance envelopes over a new map, I'm seeking to understand what other gameplay innovations folks are anticipating.  

On 7/28/2021 at 12:54 PM, LukeFF said:

Based on the mission types listed in the mission editor, yes, new mission types are coming

Awesome news.  It would be interesting to see missions where multiple flights need to coordinate to achieve the goal, perhaps with the player pilot able to make some higher-level decisions.  For example, escorting bombers in escort fighters could let the squadron commander decide how many flights to peel off to engage attackers vs which flights stay with the bombers.  Or an attack mission where the pilot gets reports from the fighters on how well they're tying up defenders over the target, and then can make a decision on when to press on with attacking aircraft to the final target.  Just seeking opportunities for interesting decisions that add gameplay to the series.  My concern is if they add "V-1 Crossbow strikes" but it's just another mission of the same type where you lead 1-4 aircraft to bomb/rocket/strafe a fixed target and return.  Again, huge props for what IL-2 GB has accomplished to date - but there are many opportunities to extend gameplay further.  Fuel systems are a good one that will add interesting new challenges and decisions in flight.  

Edited July 30, 2021 by istari6

[Eisenfaustus]

2 hours ago, Algy-Lacey said:

it would make shrewd business sense to do a 1941 plane set

All that’s really lacking is a British medium bomber of 41. We have spit v and hurri II as well as 109f2 and 109e7. Leaning into France would be almost possible. 

[J2_Oelmann]

19 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

And that would bring us back to one of the reasons why the pacific is not happening at the moment... lack of information and tech knowledge of the aircraft required.

I dearly miss the pacific theatre. But there are still areas undone which will be new and refreshing which can be done with little effort (at least I think that).

Italian front, spanish civil war maybe the polish-soviet war with all the FC I & II aircrafts, converting the channel and eastern map from ROF etc.

 

Normandy will bring lots of possibilites for missions. Looking forward to it.

[cardboard_killer]

8 hours ago, istari6 said:

I'm seeking to understand what other gameplay innovations folks are anticipating.  

 

The IL-2 franchise has a common core of gameplay and any innovations to it are shared by all. Plane type and map, and the new careers they provide, are all that differentiate one from another.

[CountZero]

Spit XIV was more then enough, also map may be made in every other flying game and its booring by this time but its neccesary as when its done you can have whole west front from 1941 to 45, thats why late war east front map would also be boring and flat but neccesary to have full war on east front as min as posible. Some times you need boring DLCs like this one, you just need to fined atleast one reason to justifie buying it ?

[Gambit21]

6 hours ago, CountZero said:

Spit XIV was more then enough, also map may be made in every other flying game and its booring by this time but its neccesary as when its done you can have whole west front from 1941 to 45, thats why late war east front map would also be boring and flat but neccesary to have full war on east front as min as posible. Some times you need boring DLCs like this one, you just need to fined atleast one reason to justifie buying it ?

 

Flat’ish maps are fine so long as the landscape is rendered in a plausible fashion. If there was Russian steppe there for instance, then that’s what I expect to see. I’ll happily fly over that.

[[CPT]Crunch]

The series is named "Great Battles", kind of silly to skip the greatest air battle ever.

[Hastati]

This is such a minor thing, but dynamic airframe markings are the thing I'm looking forward to just because it works with PWCG, and for the few planes that do have it already, the factor of "Oh "**** it's him again, you won't get away this time" can be such a rush.

[Q_Walker]

9 hours ago, Hastati said:

This is such a minor thing, but dynamic airframe markings are the thing I'm looking forward to just because it works with PWCG, and for the few planes that do have it already, the factor of "Oh "**** it's him again, you won't get away this time" can be such a rush.

Agreed, really looking forward to its full implementation on all aircraft, and really hoping that it will work in the stock Career mode by adding them to AI.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

16 hours ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

The series is named "Great Battles", kind of silly to skip the greatest air battle ever.

Isn't that the Kuban? Although I'm sure that if you use different metrics, there are many other candidates as well.

[Lusekofte]

On 7/29/2021 at 8:05 AM, DD_Arthur said:

 

For me it’s not the map but the Mosquito and the P51b.

 

 I do agree that for the rest it’s the same old stuff.

 

Still very much looking forward to one day flying off a carrier.

Preferably the Pacific but I’d be equally happy to be in the Med or off the coast of Korea.

 

 

 

 

I like BON much better than boob (in this contex)

At least we get razorbacks and interesting planes like ME 410, Mossie arado. Not only fighters. But it bring nothing new. Fly a fast plane. I am quite happy for the P 51 B too.

But this pack will not bring me back to MP.

It will be a fighters party

[Algy-Lacey]

13 minutes ago, LuseKofte said:

I like BON much better than boob

 

For me it's boob every time, everbody needs a busom for a pillow...

[Lusekofte]

29 minutes ago, Algy-Lacey said:

 

For me it's boob every time, everbody needs a busom for a pillow...

Context man Context. Know boobs stop men from reading in a spilt second 

[Gambit21]

On 7/30/2021 at 10:54 AM, [CPT]Crunch said:

The series is named "Great Battles", kind of silly to skip the greatest air battle ever.

 

The daily, six-month long brutal air battle over Henderson Airfield on Guadalcanal?

Agreed! 

[BlitzPig_EL]

Don't forget the campaign of over 2 years fought above the jungles of New Guinea.

 

Brutal.

Edited July 31, 2021 by BlitzPig_EL

[Pict]

On 7/30/2021 at 3:41 AM, Eisenfaustus said:

All that’s really lacking is a British medium bomber of 41.

 

What about the Boston? They were introduced into service with the RAF in early 1941

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_A-20_Havoc