Possible engine endurance source: early Reno races?

[Voyager]

Has anyone dug into the early Reno Air Races? The biggest problem we've got in determining whether the engine manual time limits are real is the lack of actual test data. 

 

It occurred to me, the early Reno Air races likely were before the major engine modifications that have occurred in the modern era. If we can track down the various engines and probable power settings used and the race durations, that may resolve how likely engine failure due to pure time at power, as opposed to over heating, over boosting, etc, is. 

 

Other venues may be useful as well. I recall that speed boat races went through a period of using old Allison engines as well, while the last generation were wildly overboosted, I'd expect we'd see at least the first few generations running at more stock settings. And there may be other racing categories that could be investigated as well. 

[ZachariasX]

After spending some hours with the PMDG DC-6 and their idea of engine limits (that is rather consistent with how A2A is handling it), I think the devs should just include a „no engine timer“ to the settings page and get over with that topic for good. People can fly then as they personally imagine things were. This is a game and primarily it is supposed to be fun.

 

There is a good number of ways to destroy your high performance engine even within seconds, ways that are wholly absent in this game as no engine setting will hurt the engine more than just making it cut out (besides cooking it by closing the rads, but that is not a power setting). Burning your valves will result in a sudden, unannounced silence. Once you hear it, it’s too late. Once it’s too late, you’ll see it in the dials. Not having a torque meter makes it almost impossible to get most from your engine. All you can do is strictly adhere to recommended power settings. And hope the engine lasts throughout the time you depend on it.

 

Once you experience that, it gives a lot of charm to a Kommandogerät that keeps things in order for you, especially during those full power - idle - full power parts of the dogfights that are so commonly found in MP. And with it that the 109 has a bigger advantage than 10 min continuous max. power.

 

Compared to the DC-6, even our dear P-40 actually has a pretty tough and viceless engine. One thing is clear, if theoretically the devs were to improve engine durability to study level, it had to be done to ALL engines, as otherwise you had a tremendous advantage with the current setting (including timers!). The extreme and quick changes in power settings as well as cooling requirements would make it way harder to get most of the aircraft vs. automated systems. 

[gimpy117]

I think it's also important to remember, for aircraft like the p40 we actually have documented evidence from the manufacturer to what settings the engine was being run at and specific power for such an manifold pressure. it's not just anecdotes like "flat out" Alison seemingly actually did dyno runs to determine what power outputs the P40's in the desert were putting out under the conditions they were run. You could burn a valve...but with the current excellent cooling of the Alison I doubt CHT's Or EGT's would get so excessively high that start burning valves immediately. after time yes...but immediately...I doubt it (unless you tired to pull 60"HG in lean setting). Some radials I could see this being an Issue. Aircraft like the A20 like to toast the cylinder heads even within non combat settings. A lot of these Issues are maintenance variables that aren't modeled anyways.  

 

Alison wasn't kidding when it agreed to 60"HG at about 1570 H.P and also stated that it was being run at extended periods at 70" as well as 66" mercury being able to be attained by over-speeding at 3000RPM (or ram air into the engine) giving 1745 BHP as sea level. Once again, This isn't a clipping from a book where the soviets said they just went flat out...however this data seems to back up claims of the V-1710 being really stout (this includes the F3R on the D/E and the F4R on the K) and the P40 being able to keep up with older 109 variants in some respects. 

 

I understand a fairness doctrine for engines...and maybe if we can find primary sources for other engines, especially from engine MFGR's, then that's great. I've heard rumbling of Hungarian 109's cleared for more power...but Have yet to see the actual German documents that state it. For me though, actual combat reporting backed up by Alison tests is kind of a two-for when it goes to verification of fact.    

Edited July 6, 2021 by gimpy117

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

1 hour ago, gimpy117 said:

I think it's also important to remember, for aircraft like the p40 we actually have documented evidence from the manufacturer to what settings the engine was being run at and specific power for such an manifold pressure. it's not just anecdotes like "flat out" Alison seemingly actually did dyno runs to determine what power outputs the P40's in the desert were putting out under the conditions they were run. You could burn a valve...but with the current excellent cooling of the Alison I doubt CHT's Or EGT's would get so excessively high that start burning valves immediately. after time yes...but immediately...I doubt it (unless you tired to pull 60"HG in lean setting). Some radials I could see this being an Issue. Aircraft like the A20 like to toast the cylinder heads even within non combat settings. A lot of these Issues are maintenance variables that aren't modeled anyways.  

 

Alison wasn't kidding when it agreed to 60"HG at about 1570 H.P and also stated that it was being run at extended periods at 70" as well as 66" mercury being able to be attained by over-speeding at 3000RPM (or ram air into the engine) giving 1745 BHP as sea level. Once again, This isn't a clipping from a book where the soviets said they just went flat out...however this data seems to back up claims of the V-1710 being really stout (this includes the F3R on the D/E and the F4R on the K) and the P40 being able to keep up with older 109 variants in some respects. 

 

I understand a fairness doctrine for engines...and maybe if we can find primary sources for other engines, especially from engine MFGR's, then that's great. I've heard rumbling of Hungarian 109's cleared for more power...but Have yet to see the actual German documents that state it. For me though, actual combat reporting backed up by Alison tests is kind of a two-for when it goes to verification of fact.    

This coincides with my research as well.

[gimpy117]

On 7/6/2021 at 3:07 PM, =AW=drewm3i-VR said:

This coincides with my research as well.

I guess we can only hope the devs listen, but I highly doubt they will. they seem not to upset the "pecking order" in early war scenarios.