VR Head Limits Poll

[-332FG-Magic_Zach]

VR-users answer only please, this does not pertain to flat screen players.

Do you get dizzy or sick from the cockpit head limit restrictions in VR?  Are you happy that it's around?  Would you prefer it be off when you fly?  How often do you get dizzy/sick during a typical hour of being in an aircraft (especially fighters, with the smaller cockpits)?  How often when you do bump your head against the cockpit head limits do you get dizzy or sick?

Edit: woops lol, on the 20+ answer for the first question, pretend that's actually 22+ ?

Edited July 3, 2021 by -332FG-Magic_Zach

[Mtnbiker1998]

Its a feature that I really like in VR, one of my favorites actually. Really gives some perspective on why certain cockpits (like bubbles, Malcom hoods) were better than straight, flat cockpit glass. Small tight cockpits like the 109, 190 and MC 202 really feel cramped when you physically can't move your head around as much. imo its very immersive.

 

I compare it to trying to look behind a dresser against a wall, sometimes you just can't get your eyes in the right place to look all the way behind because your big ole' forehead hits the wall first. Without these head limits, even people who try to be fair and limit themselves realistically will still put their eye way closer to the glass than they realistically would be able to. Its pretty minor, but I consider it s cheat nonetheless. If it could be enforced while still offering spectator views, I'd force it on when I do coop missions. 

 

As for the final question, I always feel things can be improved, but the particular example that pops into my head are the 190s gunsights (especially the gyro), it seems to limit your forward movement far more than it should based on where it actually sits. 

 

I don't think this is a very reliable poll though, with my flying group at least people would try it once, say "Ew that feels weird" decide they don't like it, and turn it off. The only people who continue to use it are the people who are used to it and don't get nauseous- I think this will skew results.

[Charlo-VR]

The Ju-88’s head limits are the most frustratingly limited, and I’d really like to see them expanded by the devs

[GOA_AveFenix506*VR*]

There are some planes like the 109 Emil and F that have very good movement inside the cockpit ( also the K4 ) but the G Series and all Fw190 models ( except D9) are very restricted ( while you move forward to the instrument panel and aligning to the gunsight, in a determinate moment you fell that "fake" wall and its very anoying.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 3, 2021 by GOA_Firebird_VR

[FTC_Bird*dog]

I just wish there could be a couple more inches - I feel like the limit is set to some volume based on the HMD and not to where a human skull would actually start to hit anything. So instead of it being like trying to look behind a dresser it’s like you are trying to look behind a dresser while wearing a football helmet. I imagine it’s easier to just program a sphere around some point behind the eyes and maybe that’s what sets the clash volume?

 

Maybe if instead of the forcefield pushing the cockpit around it just dimmed the display to black or something? Might provide for more of a transition zone vs a hard forcefield, and still limit any SA cheats?

[Mtnbiker1998]

On 7/4/2021 at 12:48 PM, Bird*dog said:

I just wish there could be a couple more inches - I feel like the limit is set to some volume based on the HMD and not to where a human skull would actually start to hit anything. So instead of it being like trying to look behind a dresser it’s like you are trying to look behind a dresser while wearing a football helmet. I imagine it’s easier to just program a sphere around some point behind the eyes and maybe that’s what sets the clash volume?

 

Maybe if instead of the forcefield pushing the cockpit around it just dimmed the display to black or something? Might provide for more of a transition zone vs a hard forcefield, and still limit any SA cheats?

For what its worth, they may also be taking into account goggles, Oxygen mask, headphones. The football helmet may not be a terribly inaccurate analogy lol. But I do agree a lot of the limits could be improved

 

Half Life Alyx does the fade to yellow effect and it works well there, but in that game you rarely really run into the limits unless you purposefully stick your head into a wall. I'm not sure how that would translate to something more cramped like a cockpit. I'd be curious to try it out at the least. 

[Charlo-VR]

9 hours ago, Mtnbiker1998 said:

For what its worth, they may also be taking into account goggles, Oxygen mask, headphones. The football helmet may not be a terribly inaccurate analogy lol. But I do agree a lot of the limits could be improved

That could be the case for some fighters.
 

In the unlikely event a dev or tester is reading this thread, and they have VR, next time hop into a Ju-88, switch to the front gunner and look back and up to the pilot. There is so much more room available to his head than we have available to us in VR.

[RAY-EU]

It would be VR great the option of cheq six view at 180º by pressing one button .

When you turn the head with VR are above 100º but thats it however in the real life you turn also the eyes and completely with 180º to check six but the VR has not yet the characteristic of complete the 180º by turning the eyes with also the head so to supply these real possibility .

mentioned in VR controllers in :  Simple tool to check your six ( as a programable option ) .

Edited July 7, 2021 by RAY-EU
Simple tool to check your six

[blue_max]

Yeah some planes have limits that are just a bit too tight. Would be great if it could be fixed.

[Voyager]

On 7/3/2021 at 3:36 PM, Mtnbiker1998 said:

I don't think this is a very reliable poll though, with my flying group at least people would try it once, say "Ew that feels weird" decide they don't like it, and turn it off. The only people who continue to use it are the people who are used to it and don't get nauseous- I think this will skew results.

 

Yeah. I tried it once without external views enabled and turned external views back on. I think that and "warmed up engine" are the only difficulty settings I've got on these days.

 

It doesn't seem to make me nauseous, but so far, I've never had significant motion sickness, but it is very disorienting. It feels like my headset has stopped working correctly, when I'm moving and it isn't (and I've had issues with that, such as a WMR headset losing its position info, or something (hi cat) blocking the beacons for an outside in tracker).

[=RS=Funkie]

I think it's a great feature. Way more immersive than being able to push your head through the glass.
Though I do wish there was more room to get closer to the instruments.

I'd also suggest that there be some kind of very subtle dampening as you get close to the limit, so it's not such a hard cutoff. That would simulate better the idea of pushing up against the glass. Not that you could in reality if you were properly strapped in. 

 

[=RS=Haart]

Only thing that sometimes annoys me is I feel that pilot's who don't fly in VR appear in videos to be able to hug the glass a bit closer when looking rearwards, though that might just be a matter of perspective. I've been flying in VR for the better part of 3.5 years now and don't think I've ever had any nausea from it

Only thing that sometimes annoys me is I feel that pilot's who don't fly in VR appear in videos to be able to hug the glass a bit closer when looking rearwards, though that might just be a matter of perspective. I've been flying in VR for the better part of 3.5 years now and don't think I've ever had any nausea from it

[I./JG2_Sekij]

Oh wow i didnt expect this topic to come up.

 

While its great that you cant just cheat with VR trough the Glass, i hate the limitations on many planes. Some feel much smaller then other even tho visualy there is not much diffrence. But i really HATE when there is limits to the front and lower part. I try to move my head down to see a Dial better and then i get stuck.... thats immersion breaking but also just annyoing.

 

If i have enough room in real life with an TABLE in in front of me to move my head down, im pretty sure i should have be able to move my head in an cockpit that has just an stick which is pretty far away with those limitations.

 

They are often just to strickt imo, on nearly all planes but some planes have unreasnoable front and downward limits... which shouldnt exist at all.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

I must say I haven't really noticed any head limits, ever. On one hand this can probably be attributed to actually trying to stay within the cockpit, but I recently tried to stick my head through the glass just to see what would happen, and nothing did...

[Avetorro-VR]

I like it in principle but I dont like the way it works. Its like I pick up the plane with my head and carry it sideways which is very unnatural to me, as the plane moves but the background scenery stays where it is rather than moving together in unison. I also think that in real life I could get my eye closer to the glass to look below and I feel Im being deprived of some field of view that I should have, and that also puts me at a slight disadvantage (but ive never tried the game with track IR so I dont know how far they can get to the glass). Thats what kills the immersion for me. It is a good anticheat measure, as when I played in that other sim you could turn round and put your face through the headrest, and due to backface culling could see behind and below you....if there was geometry/objects behind the seat you could just hang out the window and look back. 

[Lloydy]

I like not being able to stick your head though the geometry however I do feel the head limits are a little too restrictive and it feels like my head is hitting an invisible wall that is smaller than the physical room in the cockpit.

[Avetorro-VR]

In specific aircraft like the hs129 or i-16 it really interferes with your ability to put your head where you would naturally put it when looking at gauges or in the case of the hs129, use the bomb sight. When you move forward it moves forward with you as you are so close to the glass to begin with, as that was how the cockpit was originally designed to give a really good view of ground targets

[56RAF_Roblex]

I wish they would fix the Malcolm hood on the P51-B as it was designed to allow a pilot to see behind easier but it has exactly the same limits as the standard hood.

[-332FG-Cue-Ball]

I think the wording of this poll may not necessarily align with what you want to get out of it. I play exclusively in VR. I’m not immune to motion sickness, but have never gotten motion sick from the head boundaries. However, I do think the implementation leaves something to be desired. It’s not possible to keep the players head from moving, but allowing the entire plane to shift with the players head doesn’t seem to be the best solution either. Even if it doesn’t make the pilot sick, it’s certainly disorienting ir at least weird. I wonder if having the view “gray out” when outside the cockpit limits might not be a better solution. Also, I think the idea of VR users getting an unfair advantage by being able to put their view outside the cockpit is overblown. Hell, I can barely see behind me as it is, because I’m too damn old to turn my head like an owl and the sweet spot of VR prevents seeing chasing planes that easily unless you’re looking almost directly at them. Contrast this with the ability to very easily look directly behind in flat screen, when using TrackIR, when using mouse look, or when using third party utilities and it seems like VR users are the least likely to have any sort of advantage in checking six. 

[Avetorro-VR]

On 4/3/2022 at 9:55 PM, -332FG-Cue-Ball said:

I think the wording of this poll may not necessarily align with what you want to get out of it. I play exclusively in VR. I’m not immune to motion sickness, but have never gotten motion sick from the head boundaries. However, I do think the implementation leaves something to be desired. It’s not possible to keep the players head from moving, but allowing the entire plane to shift with the players head doesn’t seem to be the best solution either. Even if it doesn’t make the pilot sick, it’s certainly disorienting ir at least weird. I wonder if having the view “gray out” when outside the cockpit limits might not be a better solution. Also, I think the idea of VR users getting an unfair advantage by being able to put their view outside the cockpit is overblown. Hell, I can barely see behind me as it is, because I’m too damn old to turn my head like an owl and the sweet spot of VR prevents seeing chasing planes that easily unless you’re looking almost directly at them. Contrast this with the ability to very easily look directly behind in flat screen, when using TrackIR, when using mouse look, or when using third party utilities and it seems like VR users are the least likely to have any sort of advantage in checking six. 

Good point. It also makes planes like the hs129 difficult as you need your face near the screen when using the bomb sight, and it just moves away from you. Same with some Russian fighters I’ve found to see the gauges you have to look down under the panel and again it moves away from you. Not sure getting out will work as in a dogfight in tight canopies your head almost always ends up outside the glass and everything suddenly going grey could be detrimental to your survival. 

[fraggg]

I do really wish the VR cockpit head movement limits for some planes would get fixed. Trying to fly a Ju 88 feels like I'm wearing a 2 ft wide invisible ball on my head, since there are invisible walls where I can't move any further all over the place even though I'm clearly not actually that close to anything.

Even some of the single engine fighters are like this, can't really get close to the gunsight in 109s, Spitfires and iirc a few others because there's a mysterious invisible  forcefield like 1 ft away from the instruments.