Hurricane compass

[MrMerdur]

Fairly new to the game. I can't seem to figure out the compass in the hurricane. It will stick for a long time then move. I don't know why it sticks or what causes it to unstick. If it's something I'm doing or what. Please help.

[AndyJWest]

There were two types of 'compass' used in WW2 fighter aircraft: magnetic compasses, which align to the Earth's magnetic field, and gyrocompasses, which use a gyroscope to maintain alignment after first being aligned with a magnetic compass. Both types were prone to errors. Magnetic compasses are sensitive to changes in acceleration, and lead or lag in turns. Gyrocompasses drift over time, and can tumble during manoeuvring. The IL-2 GB Hurricane has both, and both model the errors and other effects that can occur. Whether this is done in an entirely realistic way is open to debate, but they are probably more realistic than the compasses modelled in some other aircraft. If you fly straight and level for a bit, they should sort themselves out.

 

https://www.boldmethod.com/blog/learn-to-fly/aircraft-systems/how-your-magnetic-compass-works/

 

 

 

Edited July 3, 2021 by AndyJWest

[IL2Battle]

Hey,

Haven't fly with the hurricane lately, but when flying with it (learning) didn't notice this. Although I fly with a spitfire mk.vb recently and notice, that it compass get stuck and I make a quick test.

When flying straight and making light turns, no problem. But if you make tight turn(s), compass get stuck and ain't released before you fly straight again for awhile. Haven't notice this problem with any other aircrafts. As I have on screen compass on, this ain't big deal, but if you fly with full real it might be. As like after combat, you have to fly like 10 seconds without any tighter turns, to get compass work again and get to know which direction you are heading.

It would be nice, if you could test, if hurricane compass react same way.

 

Ah, AndyJWest have the answer, nice to get to know the reason why they behave like that. Thank you.

Edited July 3, 2021 by IL2Battle

[firdimigdi]

IIRC it auto-cages in the sim, while IRL the pilot would cage/uncage the compass before and after high-G manoeuvres. Perhaps if we had manual control over it it would make more sense as to what is happening.

[BMA_FlyingShark]

15 minutes ago, 335th_GRFirdimigdi said:

if we had manual control over it

I hope one day we will, together with other features that are actually already in the game but we don't have manual control over.

Chances are slim though.

 

Have a nice day.

 

[Pict]

10 hours ago, IL2Battle said:

As I have on screen compass on, this ain't big deal, but if you fly with full real it might be.

 

Unfortunately the wonder woman compass somehow managed to slide past the full real setting, so this won't b a problem if you like to use that on full real settings.

 

The hud compass and the hud g meter should both be blocked when the techno chat hud is disabled in the realism setting....I think.

[LukeFF]

1 minute ago, Pict said:

Unfortunately the wonder woman compass somehow managed to slide past the full real setting, so this won't b a problem if you like to use that on full real settings.

 

The hud compass and the hud g meter should both be blocked when the techno chat hud is disabled in the realism setting....I think.

 

Maybe, maybe not - the magnetic compass in British aircraft isn't the easiest to read or see, and the directional gyro has its own (based in reality) quirks, so it doesn't bother me that much that the HUD shows the compass heading.

[Pict]

13 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

the magnetic compass in British aircraft isn't the easiest to read or see

 

That's true and applies to other aircraft as much if not more so, the Yak's and iirc the I-16...yet there is a fantastic and easy solution built into IL2 BOX in that you can set up a custom snap view and if you are using a head tracker or such as most people do then the problem evaporates.

 

The issue I have with it is the same issue I had with the techno hud. When flying combat against someone on what should be a full real server, they can still have situational awareness and read their compass the whole time. That just wasn't the case in a real WW2 aircraft. And I am either at a disadvantage by flying the way I want to or have to step down to their level of realism which kills the immersion.

 

The g meter shouldn't be in the same sentence as realism when discussing these aircraft...should it?

 

Edited July 3, 2021 by Pict

[Dakpilot]

1 hour ago, Pict said:

The g meter shouldn't be in the same sentence as realism when discussing these aircraft...should it?

 

Not so sure... My personal G meter works in a real aircraft when I am flying IRL but not so well in a sim in a comfy chair  ?

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

[41Sqn_Skipper]

2 hours ago, 335th_GRFirdimigdi said:

IIRC it auto-cages in the sim, while IRL the pilot would cage/uncage the compass before and after high-G manoeuvres. Perhaps if we had manual control over it it would make more sense as to what is happening.

 

The irony is that the current system favours a magnetic compass when manoeuvring and the gyro compass when flying straight and level. While in reality it is the other way.

[Pict]

1 hour ago, Dakpilot said:

My personal G meter

 

Ok, how many WW2 pilot had one of these?

[Dakpilot]

Every single one of them.. 

 

The Mk1 butt/ass/bottom

 

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

[LukeFF]

4 hours ago, Pict said:

Ok, how many WW2 pilot had one of these?

 

Some late American planes had a G-meter. They're referred to as accelerometers:

 

https://aeroantique.com/products/accelerometer-g-meter-an-5745?_pos=8&_sid=423c2b100&_ss=r&variant=38275923402

 

https://aeroantique.com/products/accelerometer-type-b-3?_pos=2&_sid=423c2b100&_ss=r&variant=21597978067033

[Mollotin]

8 hours ago, Pict said:

 

 

The g meter shouldn't be in the same sentence as realism when discussing these aircraft...should it?

 

i think its more realistic to have the g meter there.  it would be unrealistic if u had no idea if u are pulling g's or  not.

 

i agree the hud compass is not needed.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Dakpilot is 100% on point here.

 

Pulling Gs, even low ones, in a real aeroplane, or on a racetrack, both of which I have done gives you input that your brain uses to interpret what is going on with whatever machine you are in.  I've pulled just over 2 G in a Stearman, laughably low I know, but none the less it gave me a window on just how much computer "simulations" fall short of the real experience.  It's something that no force feedback stick, or "Butt Kicker" bolted to your chair can ever hope to properly emulate.

I have the same issue with racing "sims".  They can offer a lot of fun and close "racing", and can be used to learn actual tracks, but they are lacking in a convincing portrayal of the actual feel of hurtling down a track at well over 100mph approaching a second gear corner and braking at incipient lock up, feeling the contact patches of the front tires as they scrabble for grip directly through the steering wheel, while being forced into your harness, then being pressed to the out side of the turn as you clip the apex the corner.  Same for the Steaman,  you feel the force of the airflow over the ailerons in the stick, ditto the elevators, and your feet feel the resistance in the rudder, while your torso is alive with inputs.  You feel the machine working, it's a wonderment.  

 

In a flight sim, you have a limp... stick in your hand, and thats it.  If you are lucky you have some sort of poorly modeled audio and visual cues to what your mount is doing, but it's nothing like the real thing,  Nothing.

Edited July 4, 2021 by BlitzPig_EL

[LukeFF]

49 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

If you are lucky you have some sort of poorly modeled audio and visual cues to what your mount is doing

 

This is one area where the game has made some noticeable improvements recently - for instance, turn steeply in a Typhoon, and you'll hear the wings strain under the pressure.

[senseispcc]

True, the flying sims are now better than they ever been. Progress makes not perfction it is a "sim" after all but we do not risk our lifes at each flight like the real pilots in war. Happy to be in a sim not every other day risking my life in machines of 3 to 6 tons. For the fighters. . 

[Pict]

11 hours ago, LukeFF said:

Some late American planes had a G-meter.

 

That's nice to know, but how many of them do we have in BOX?

 

16 hours ago, Dakpilot said:

Every single one of them.. 

 

That's funny, but if that's your definition of a g meter, then the pilots increase breathing and other audio visual clues as modeled in BOX would work too, no?

 

Ok it might not take bite out of your chute, but that's no bad thing either  

 

10 hours ago, Mollotin said:

i think its more realistic to have the g meter there.  it would be unrealistic if u had no idea if u are pulling g's or  not.

 

I never use the g meter and I have no problem knowing when I'm pull g's. Head up displays in WW2 aircraft are unrealistic.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Pict

[Mollotin]

well, it appears we have different opinion about whats realistic and what is not. i respect that. 

 

 

 

 

[BlitzPig_EL]

8 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

This is one area where the game has made some noticeable improvements recently - for instance, turn steeply in a Typhoon, and you'll hear the wings strain under the pressure.

 

Yeah, I could have worded that part of my post better.  The audio cues are much better than original IL2, be sure.  Still, that elusive thing called "feel" is an area where home computer sims will always come up short compared to the real thing.

[DD_Arthur]

What I want to know is why British fighter aircraft were fitted with what is essentially a ships compass??

[BlitzPig_EL]

Because Britannia Rules the Waves. 

Edited July 4, 2021 by BlitzPig_EL

[Trooper117]

Port Out, Starboard Home, that's why... POSH!

[LukeFF]

32 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

What I want to know is why British fighter aircraft were fitted with what is essentially a ships compass??

 

It's the one thing I don't like about British aircraft - everything else is pretty much consistently organized, but then there's this big monstrosity on the floor. ?‍?

[[F.Circus]MoerasGrizzly]

1 hour ago, DD_Arthur said:

What I want to know is why British fighter aircraft were fitted with what is essentially a ships compass??

They're already making those by the dozens anyway

[Pict]

14 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

What I want to know is why British fighter aircraft were fitted with what is essentially a ships compass??

 

Might be the same reason they put ASI's that read off in Knots in a fair few aircraft   Capt Pugwash was in charge of the Air Ministry at the time? Who knows?

Edited July 5, 2021 by Pict

[Gort]

Knots are universally used in modern aircraft. Why? Because it facilitates easier integration with the earth’s coordinate system. 

 

Miles per hour is an anachronism. Home built aircraft marketing still uses it in an attempt to make their products somehow seem “faster”. It’s silly.

[Lusekofte]

16 minutes ago, Gort said:

Knots are universally used in modern aircraft. Why? Because it facilitates easier integration with the earth’s coordinate system. 

 

Miles per hour is an anachronism. Home built aircraft marketing still uses it in an attempt to make their products somehow seem “faster”. It’s silly.

This. 

You won't find any Pilot arguing this

[Pict]

1 hour ago, Gort said:

Knots are universally used in modern aircraft. Why? Because it facilitates easier integration with the earth’s coordinate system. 

 

Indeed, but none of the RAF WW2 aircraft I was talking about could be described even remotely as "modern". The RAF used both Knots & MPH back in the day, side by side in some cases.

 

While many other air forces during that time used KPH.

 

So, what was the relevance of your point?

Edited July 8, 2021 by Pict

[AndyJWest]

29 minutes ago, Pict said:

The RAF used both Knots & MPH back in the day, side by side in some cases.

 

Yup. The RAF didn't seem to have any sort of standard, at the start of WW2:

Quote

It should be noted...that air speed indicators could be calibrated in statute miles per hour or nautical miles per hour depending on aircraft manufacturer or on aircraft role.

https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/documents/research/RAF-Historical-Society-Journals/Journal-17A-Air-Navigationin-the-RAF.pdf

 

Presumably they expected pilots to be familiar with both, and maybe to be able to do at least approximate conversions between the two in their heads. 

[Voyager]

I believe the USAAF used mph, and I recall the Navy specced planes in MPH but instrumented them in knots. 

 

Having gotten more familiar with aircraft navigation. I can understand why they've all gravitated to using knots, but a lot of that was not known when flight started, so until you've got planes doing long instrumental flying, I can see why people would start with and stick with more familiar automotive units. 

[ilmavoimat]

The P-8 compass in the Spit and Hurricane STILL doesn't operate correctly. ATM in game it is modelled as a gyro compass with the pointer reflecting the aircraft's heading, however, it is a magnetic compass i.e. the pointer always points to magnetic North and the aircraft rotates around it as the heading changes. The bezel is set to the desired heading and the aircraft heading altered until the needle and the bezel markings line up. This has been pointed out many times since the Spit V was included in game. BTW it works properly on CloD!!